From owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Wed Jul 15 11:46:06 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 941339A29D1 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 11:46:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johannes@meixner.or.at) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74A891E37 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 11:46:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johannes@meixner.or.at) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 72DBA9A29CF; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 11:46:06 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71A189A29CE for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 11:46:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johannes@meixner.or.at) Received: from dd16522.kasserver.com (dd16522.kasserver.com [85.13.137.124]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EBAB81E36 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 11:46:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johannes@meixner.or.at) Received: from mx12.chaot.net (65-251-190-90.dyn.estpak.ee [90.190.251.65]) by dd16522.kasserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C5A6445607C for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 13:45:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx12.chaot.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]); by mx12.chaot.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id ea7fb3ea; for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 14:45:50 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <55A647EE.4080504@meixner.dk> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 14:45:50 +0300 From: Johannes Jost Meixner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Concerning our new Code of Conduct... OpenPGP: id=C18F24928F1D36EA4FA0B2EF496A9D706250D402 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------030203080506050104000405" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.20 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 11:46:06 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030203080506050104000405 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Dear all, I actually like our new code of conduct. It protects my rights as a human being, and it gives me safety in knowing that they will be respected by my fellow FreeBSD developers. However... The code of conduct explicitly states that discrimination based on gender is one such issue that is -explicitly- forbidden, and that interpersonal communication is to be kept civil, tolerant and impersonal . Obviously, when a member of the FreeBSD community sets out to collect quote "male tears" unquote, I see this as a huge disservice to the advocacy of the FreeBSD project, and there is a time and place for making my dissent public. I have kept quiet over the whole affair that was spurred by my taunting that person on Twitter; today that person has gone too far. I - as a male - feel not only not tolerated, but also discriminated against, because the action so taken has shown that the person taking this action (while celebrating the code of conduct) does not value it in the slightest. Given my previous run-in with that person, I have thought twice before posting this email. If that person keeps continuing to break the code of conduct this person advocated for, and keeps doing that in the name and with consent of the FreeBSD community, I shall immediately cease all public contributions to the FreeBSD project, including but not limited to - - upstreaming all the patches I have generated that have not made it into the portstree -so far- - - contributing new, and updating outdated ports as well as fixing bugs (last I counted, I had 216 ports commits under my belt) - - reviewing the 64bit Linux Emulation ports as well as maintaining *any* of the 32bit ports, which I myself contributed during 9 months of hard work, - - advocacy events I had planned for this fall to happen in Estonia with Garage48.org, and started organizing with the Tallinn Technical University, - - various small improvements to the FreeBSD documentation. I do not stand for a community that gives itself a Code of Conduct, and in that the very members who advocate for it -- kick it with their own feets. Screenshots of the material in question attached. - -- Best regards, Johannes Meixner “If you saw Atlas, the giant who holds the world on his shoulders, if you saw that he stood, blood running down his chest, his knees buckling, his arms trembling but still trying to hold the world aloft with the last of his strength, and the greater his effort the heavier the world bore down upon his shoulders - What would you tell him?" "I…don't know. What…could he do? What would you tell him?" "To shrug.” -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJVpkfsAAoJEElqnXBiUNQCmy0QAJPh0NMOk/a88QLnwv5L/EWe 86W81++ed7loEo7p25Laqk2kx1fU+x4UXszEj8Z7hF7FxNO5P+r2T9RBmg7CCmUj 8PwINpHFM8Mo03Pn9Zzbm1QMTpmsnttOfI5lclOJeE1/+LnLt2ebKO/3Aj9bFbZ5 LtPQ/bDINWunAIfaUxHVBw5j18p4HBsa8OeE2+97Al2/fqHUN/V1DJEgRM5eRM0F fifBPw2sE4EQE2xS4ZJ2M/CrGAr8xBQ1inlDCFjghTZ6IOwCb2kmQldZG1A/3u0E uDuN+Xr9J9JTcf2/kj0qvY0SVsasIT2EYdaG9KnqoioHNE4MvgkERkVGWMDg2AiO /O4m1rUxgM2dY9UY8PclftWrylzM3D3NFWyeYnsnPiHoD7nuOgMs+LxDQifIPQis YT6AW95QjScHQBnLwiJRZVR9c9hItyPW/+58OTMdD2eYIDjSjekA9OcSjfQbnz8H +LKNEzLd4kFWHIglXlpIVdQFTVCqNINCzSA1kkijNlhy2Kbxa+csZio7JZPF/27x DVa6Voyfag4vYlHZxpos1Sy40KWpWIrmcUpUUQ/jMoxEfkfg/BDvsW421nfSnldM OoY8DqiLlEfY+TmzJQ8hd8RoasaYZxAb8aHuBUojwtsrTF2XvfrS4IZlapN2Q1xW P78VPIAIxRalYRkIA0ib =ayEV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------030203080506050104000405 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="freebsd-advocacy-mail_02.png.sig" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="freebsd-advocacy-mail_02.png.sig" iQIcBAABCAAGBQJVpkfuAAoJEElqnXBiUNQCeQEP+QElkJaUaE4AprEZN0ltuQJx0/fxXeN4 IEsNQ7p8dJTldYYcnFCWdqDeHvScoChT5jNMu3M6XrOIad9CKXJ3kiMWbJf10HO3cXdLMR8I PGLHuRsGp9+ik9fDInBBmEQaEIa1DW5YbFDXHEevil3oKvRuON+evs9YnwJZLmakd6X77KzC 9rGyPY441EJO3oktY0e9OQC5wcOxwgzfOhWsY22wFDskT21lsKE4AhGgNQrkAD0a6X/B4WM8 JVCMTVYa+sHJzYQ6K7V0vt7m8wQ4P3GppAaGouECKbSUCMeV0pNvqJboyqP1IkY0nFiuxuD0 V5oNi+qufJddbfalftX4AtdfTc+HLZN+SWzw+Men8TkMuuuNbXJe8Puf19C9E87hewVjocBg FYSGTis2iEuyfgaqCH3kwikPpNyRInwrSkSfbUhMKWkbPRaouPrIJgcsJnT/F8p3ShEyNqwo E2iD3hMzCXl0d8vOI4g4XlxO46OthWBq/qUWNVi+bbdH+2sKVnDv+wQ6ptK7nyfdefwq7RcK 0kODNtDhr3QMc/AFpD2N8hNG3+QRrEwwH+l+GdV/n/ljBgdRLqBDrMUvSjlCUG5k+hmxbGmx gpftEJTuknKdIYor6EEC3UElnGKl+LHiACm1RLkkJ7L55+sD/5gTu5gO6Wni8UeE8w7lMkYr nXMn --------------030203080506050104000405 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="freebsd-advocacy-mail.png.sig" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="freebsd-advocacy-mail.png.sig" iQIcBAABCAAGBQJVpkfuAAoJEElqnXBiUNQC80UP/jXwE0Aa+zYwiSlm0wEDtKecbjQA420Q ggledPGiSSK+JiWY9st2yV8wWwGQ3KfAiQU3PHQO7WShxSdEWngdqyrvcWBPs5xz2swEXVU/ Gxumnro4rnav6P+053uZDXYwouKiGXlGE6kQSz4mbNQyls4B6dv5visItznYcn5r1SCrqemx 1v3nPQTRp3UDfXpwh7ZYiLeuUq6sFcqrolRwjmUlUSXgBlJM+DsQgYyn4tOcEshpxNnm4bcq 0cnu3nlnvXn66+lBjb/ynEGXAz3IOdzF9s3OzUqGRefqE8V8qw2ikmtoMGgbaQuqLKAns/Po vlFL2dZtI1jn2w9p5uE6Y1JCxjdCuFk9Q/jaCfIx7ie0wNBap5oRIRv8Hd3Ok5/B+LS6lUWh g9DT3baOu+ZltQIciiuql3jQAfpDlZRSsrPWRWPTLcjyFHW3rfMt0CKpTOxDmugo//JlGRqC zuoIv5cEN+MOhe1/ERac/R3VVPvUpvoZrBxAEjQw7vshoS7sbVQ3b2I8J9SNM7L1RHX9dsca gEx9CIf94ig+zZ9kZitjQcnOql15XNnuSxu4kUg6jhHn1XbPjE+iyFv6wnKmPmmSc3LqSdCP 7YJIg5AkPJT3vrNbMfmmMuSUl9gfkDiUekAD2GcvAaCsbxz0OWooUKGW/8/Lt6Hnvfb9IrTo HFHE --------------030203080506050104000405-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Wed Jul 15 16:35:07 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1121A9A1E3F for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 16:35:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from edelwin@mailoo.org) Received: from mailoo.org (arnold.mailoo.org [212.83.147.198]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5C1A123E for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 16:35:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from edelwin@mailoo.org) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by arnold.mailoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCCDF234 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 18:30:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [172.27.8.2] (pangea.random.sh [212.83.168.157]) by arnold.mailoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E8C2A232 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 18:30:08 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct... To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <55A647EE.4080504@meixner.dk> From: Edelwin Khaelos Message-ID: <55A68A4C.7070402@mailoo.org> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 18:29:00 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <55A647EE.4080504@meixner.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 16:35:07 -0000 Hello Johannes, The concept of quote "male tears" unquote makes fun of people identifying (and recognized as) males in the society who complain about being oppressed (in a patriarchal society). This is of course a highly ironical term. You can read more at http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/08/08/ironic_misandry_why_feminists_joke_about_drinking_male_tears_and_banning.html and to quote this article: Ironic misandry is a reductio ad absurdum[]. It's inhabiting the most exaggerated, implausible distortion of your position, in order to show that it's ridiculous. . Yes, you can chill out, you are not going to be hunted for your tears by a horde of feminists as if you were the white rhinoceros :) Le 15/07/2015 13:45, Johannes Jost Meixner a crit : > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > Dear all, > > I actually like our new code of conduct. It protects my rights as a > human being, and it gives me safety in knowing that they will be > respected by my fellow FreeBSD developers. > > However... > > The code of conduct explicitly states that discrimination based on > gender is one such issue that is -explicitly- forbidden, and that > interpersonal communication is to be kept civil, tolerant and impersonal > . > > > Obviously, when a member of the FreeBSD community sets out to collect > quote "male tears" unquote, I see this as a huge disservice to the > advocacy of the FreeBSD project, and there is a time and place for > making my dissent public. I have kept quiet over the whole affair that > was spurred by my taunting that person on Twitter; today that person > has gone too far. > > > I - as a male - feel not only not tolerated, but also discriminated > against, because the action so taken has shown that the person taking > this action (while celebrating the code of conduct) does not value it > in the slightest. > > > Given my previous run-in with that person, I have thought twice before > posting this email. > > > If that person keeps continuing to break the code of conduct this > person advocated for, and keeps doing that in the name and with > consent of the FreeBSD community, > > > I shall immediately cease all public contributions to the FreeBSD > project, including but not limited to > > - - upstreaming all the patches I have generated that have not made it > into the portstree -so far- > > - - contributing new, and updating outdated ports as well as fixing bugs > (last I counted, I had 216 ports commits under my belt) > > - - reviewing the 64bit Linux Emulation ports as well as maintaining > *any* of the 32bit ports, which I myself contributed during 9 months > of hard work, > > - - advocacy events I had planned for this fall to happen in Estonia > with Garage48.org, and started organizing with the Tallinn Technical > University, > > - - various small improvements to the FreeBSD documentation. > > > I do not stand for a community that gives itself a Code of Conduct, > and in that the very members who advocate for it -- kick it with their > own feets. > > > Screenshots of the material in question attached. > > > > - -- > Best regards, > > Johannes Meixner > > If you saw Atlas, the giant who holds the world on his shoulders, if > you saw that he stood, blood running down his chest, his knees > buckling, his arms trembling but still trying to hold the world aloft > with the last of his strength, and the greater his effort the heavier > the world bore down upon his shoulders - What would you tell him?" > > "Idon't know. Whatcould he do? What would you tell him?" > > "To shrug. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2 > > iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJVpkfsAAoJEElqnXBiUNQCmy0QAJPh0NMOk/a88QLnwv5L/EWe > 86W81++ed7loEo7p25Laqk2kx1fU+x4UXszEj8Z7hF7FxNO5P+r2T9RBmg7CCmUj > 8PwINpHFM8Mo03Pn9Zzbm1QMTpmsnttOfI5lclOJeE1/+LnLt2ebKO/3Aj9bFbZ5 > LtPQ/bDINWunAIfaUxHVBw5j18p4HBsa8OeE2+97Al2/fqHUN/V1DJEgRM5eRM0F > fifBPw2sE4EQE2xS4ZJ2M/CrGAr8xBQ1inlDCFjghTZ6IOwCb2kmQldZG1A/3u0E > uDuN+Xr9J9JTcf2/kj0qvY0SVsasIT2EYdaG9KnqoioHNE4MvgkERkVGWMDg2AiO > /O4m1rUxgM2dY9UY8PclftWrylzM3D3NFWyeYnsnPiHoD7nuOgMs+LxDQifIPQis > YT6AW95QjScHQBnLwiJRZVR9c9hItyPW/+58OTMdD2eYIDjSjekA9OcSjfQbnz8H > +LKNEzLd4kFWHIglXlpIVdQFTVCqNINCzSA1kkijNlhy2Kbxa+csZio7JZPF/27x > DVa6Voyfag4vYlHZxpos1Sy40KWpWIrmcUpUUQ/jMoxEfkfg/BDvsW421nfSnldM > OoY8DqiLlEfY+TmzJQ8hd8RoasaYZxAb8aHuBUojwtsrTF2XvfrS4IZlapN2Q1xW > P78VPIAIxRalYRkIA0ib > =ayEV > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Thu Jul 16 08:45:12 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D24119A3AE0 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 08:45:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD1F2126D for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 08:45:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id BA70C9A3ADF; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 08:45:12 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA0449A3ADE for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 08:45:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from smtp.des.no (smtp.des.no [194.63.250.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83706126C for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 08:45:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from nine.des.no (smtp.des.no [194.63.250.102]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11400AFC1; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 08:45:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by nine.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4C4D2CBAD; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 10:45:01 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Johannes Jost Meixner Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct... References: <55A647EE.4080504@meixner.dk> Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 10:45:01 +0200 In-Reply-To: <55A647EE.4080504@meixner.dk> (Johannes Jost Meixner's message of "Wed, 15 Jul 2015 14:45:50 +0300") Message-ID: <864ml44hki.fsf@nine.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 08:45:12 -0000 Johannes Jost Meixner writes: > I - as a male - feel not only not tolerated, but also discriminated > against, There are approximately 400 active committers, and not even five of those are women. How the *hell* can you claim to be discriminated against when you are part of a 99% majority? > I shall immediately cease all public contributions to the FreeBSD > project, including but not limited to /r/theredpill is ---> thataway. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Thu Jul 16 10:49:43 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 801BD9A34F6 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 10:49:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johannes@meixner.or.at) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 656C21694 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 10:49:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johannes@meixner.or.at) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 57B819A34F5; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 10:49:43 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 574F29A34F4 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 10:49:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johannes@meixner.or.at) Received: from dd16522.kasserver.com (dd16522.kasserver.com [85.13.137.124]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 181E01693 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 10:49:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johannes@meixner.or.at) Received: from [88.196.155.29] (29-155-196-88.dyn.estpak.ee [88.196.155.29]) by dd16522.kasserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E862E456092 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 12:49:36 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 13:49:34 +0300 Subject: =?US-ASCII?Q?Re:_Concerning_our_new_Code_of_Conduct...=0A?= From: Johannes Jost Meixner To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Message-Id: <20150716104936.E862E456092@dd16522.kasserver.com> X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 10:49:43 -0000 CgpJZiB0aGUgQ29kZSBvZiBDb25kdWN0IGRvZXMgbm90IHByb3RlY3QgbWUgYXMgYW4gaW5kaXZp ZHVhbCBhZ2FpbnN0IHRoZSBkaXNjcmltaW5hdGlvbnMgb2YgYW5vdGhlciBpbmRpdmlkdWFsLCB3 aGF0ZXZlciB0aGVpciBzZXgsIGdlbmRlciwgcG9saXRpY2FsIG9yaWVudGF0aW9uLCBzZXh1YWwg cHJlZmVyZW5jZSwgaXQgaXMgbm90IHdvcnRoIHRoZSBwYXBlciBpdCBpcyB3cml0dGVuIG9uLgoK TXkgb3duIHNleCwgZ2VuZGVyLCBwb2xpdGljYWwgb3JpZW50YXRpb24sIHNleHVhbCBwcmVmZXJl bmNlIGlzIGNvbXBsZXRlbHkgaXJyZWxldmFudCB0byB0aGlzIHRvcGljLgoKSWYgdGhlIGNvcmUg dGVhbSBkb2VzIG5vdCBzZWVtIG15IGNvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbnMgd29ydGh5IG9mIHJlc3BlY3QsIGFu ZCBteSBwZXJzb25hbCBob25vciB3b3J0aHkgb2YgcHJvdGVjdGlvbiBhZ2FpbnN0IGRpc2NyaW1p bmF0aW9uIGZyb20gYW55IG9uZSB0ZWFtIG1lbWJlciB3aGF0ZXZlciB0aGVpciBjdXJyZW50IGNv bnRyaWJ1dGlvbnMgb3IgcG9zaXRpb25zIHRoZXkgdXBob2xkLAoKSSBsZWF2ZS4gCgpUaGUgbG9z cyBpcyB0aGUgcHJvamVjdCdzIHRvIHRha2UgaW50byBhY2NvdW50LgoKV2l0aCB0aGlzIHlvdSBh cmUgc2V0dGluZyBhIGRhbmdlcm91cyBwcmVjZWRlbnQgd2l0aCB0aGlzIGlzc3VlLCB3aGVyZSBv bmUgaW5kaXZpZHVhbCBjYW4gdGFrZSBtb3JlIHRoYW4gNDAwIG90aGVycyBob3N0YWdlIGFuZCBm b3JjZSB0aGVpciAtIGZlbWluaXN0LCBhbmQgYmV5b25kIHRoYXQsIEVYUExJQ0lUTFkgYW50aS1t YWxlIChjZi4gQXR0YWNobWVudHMgb2YgdGhlIG9yaWdpbmFsIHBvc3QpIC0gb3BpbmlvbiBvbiBl dmVyeW9uZSBlbHNlLCByZWdhcmRsZXNzIG9mIHRoZWlyIGNvdW50cnkgb2Ygb3JpZ2luLCB0aGVp ciBwZXJzb25hbCBiZWxpZWZzLCBhbmQgdGhlaXIgb3duIG1vcmFscy4KCldoYXQgZG8geW91IHRo aW5rIGlzIGdvaW5nIHRvIGhhcHBlbj8KClRoYXQgYWNyb3NzIGFsbCB0aW1lcywgSSBoYXZlIGJl ZW4gdGhlIGZpcnN0IHRvIHN1ZmZlciB0aGlzIHRyZWF0bWVudD8gVGhhdCBJIHdpbGwgYmUgdGhl IGxhc3Q/CgpGcmVlQlNEIHRoaW5rcyBpdCBpcyBhbiBvcGVuIGFuZCBpbmNsdXNpdmUgY29tbXVu aXR5LiBJIGhhdmUgaGFkIHRoZSBjaGFuY2Ugb2Ygd29ya2luZyB3aXRoIGEgZmV3IHZlcnkgYnJp Z2h0LCBmZW1hbGUsIGNvbnRyaWJ1dG9ycywgd2hvIGhhdmUgbm90IHlldCBiZWVuIGJyb3VnaHQg aW50byB0aGUgcHJvamVjdC4gVGhleSB3aWxsIGJlLCBhbmQgdGhleSB3aWxsIGhhcHBpbHkgam9p biB0aGUgcmFua3Mgb2YgcG9ydHMgYW5kIHNvdXJjZSBjb21taXR0ZXJzLgoKQnV0IHRoZXkgdG9v IHdpbGwgYmUgd29uZGVyaW5nLi4uIFdoYXQgaWYgdGhleSBleHByZXNzIGFueSBvcGluaW9uIHRo YXQgZG9lcyBub3QgY29uZm9ybSB0byB0aGUgbWFpbiBwYXJ0eSBsaW5lPyBXaWxsIHRoZXkgaGF2 ZSB0byBnaXZlIHVwIHRoZWlyIGNvbW1pdCBiaXRzIGFzIHdlbGw/IFNob3VsZCB0aGV5IGV2ZW4g c3BlYWsgdXAgYWdhaW5zdCBhbnkgZGVmaWNpdHMgYW5kIHNlcmlvdXMgbnVpc2FuY2VzLCBpZiB0 aGV5IGFyZSBkb29tZWQgdG8gYmUgc2lsZW5jZWQgYW5kIHNwb2tlbiBkb3duIHRvLCBmb3IgaGF2 aW5nIHRoYXQgb3BpbmlvbiBhbmQgbWFraW5nIGl0IHB1YmxpYz8KCkkgc2VyaW91c2x5IGRvIG5v dCB0aGluayBhbnkgb2YgdGhpcyBpcyB3aGF0IHlvdSBhY3R1YWxseSBpbnRlbmQgdG8gZG8gd2hl biB0aGUgY29kZSBvZiBjb25kdWN0IGFzIGl0IGlzIHB1Ymxpc2hlZCBtZW50aW9ucyB0aGF0IEZy ZWVCU0QgaXMsIHF1b3RlLCBhIG1lcml0b2NyYWN5LCB1bnF1b3RlLiAKCldoZXRoZXIgSSBzZWUg YW55IG1lcml0IGluIFJhbmRpIEhhcnBlciBiZWluZyBhIG1lbWJlciBvZiB0aGlzIHByb2plY3Qs IEkgdGhpbmsgSSBoYXZlIG1hZGUgdGhpcyBjbGVhci4gV2hldGhlciBhbnlvbmUgZWxzZSBzZWVz IGFueSBtZXJpdCBpbiBtZSBpbiBrZWVwaW5nIG9uIGNvbnRyaWJ1dGluZyBpcyBhIHF1ZXN0aW9u IHRoYXQsIHRoYW5rZnVsbHksIERFUyBjYW5ub3QgdW5hbmltb3VzbHkgYW5zd2VyLgoKUmVnYXJk cwpKb2hhbm5lcw== From owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Thu Jul 16 11:14:54 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97C979A387D for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 11:14:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from spankthespam@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vn0-x236.google.com (mail-vn0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c0f::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FA3D11DB for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 11:14:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from spankthespam@gmail.com) Received: by vnbf62 with SMTP id f62so7638539vnb.8 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 04:14:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=EpULYSH+MVQeQupq3pe/W46wmCKg3WYPR1McSzBSK9k=; b=wxqKtJXlOtqj6JKiJ4NMoDOKYDHIDc5oVQWKH4TavvOAOwnQjqv/jER/EiU5HiRYlD RYAEpVZrXuZKfhMLL2P/kU6reS8ZssQq3Ug1HE3goqOg8y2wRbjPNplOQC3vHJYFvNy1 K+OPRenTpyIZG9yRXUW8tgDXoudST/BMkclCV0kXPN0yxt6yT+GEaZcc57SdednJr/Hm IXrWlpNMVtlvBXvYxR42TiIBUeybAM33EFQL41wiVzFUt61DTQELoMz/lFJJGOpXhUrD PbB1d2KLXOXMQ4QxcXy7JXUUM6/rDBdISKPN/jjSYh2QYt3uomkuXymyOPwyg/v0DeMs DkWg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.53.0.137 with SMTP id ay9mr9687261vdd.85.1437045293159; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 04:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.31.153.147 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 04:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 12:14:53 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Concerning our new Code of Conduct... From: Big Lebowski To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.20 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 11:14:54 -0000 > > Johannes Jost Meixner writes: > > I - as a male - feel not only not tolerated, but also discriminated > > against, > > There are approximately 400 active committers, and not even five of > those are women. How the *hell* can you claim to be discriminated > against when you are part of a 99% majority? > So you are saying that one person can't complain against other person actions/behaviour strictly because it is part of some majority? That's like very sexist (given we're talking about being male/female here) and discriminative (in general) thing since you're denying him the same rights simply because he's a male. I think that's realy bad thing. > I shall immediately cease all public contributions to the FreeBSD > > project, including but not limited to > > /r/theredpill is ---> thataway. Don't let the door hit you on the way > out. > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des at des.no I dont know what the other side of this conflict (namely Randi) brings to the project, but a quick search shows me just a few commits against xmj's few hundreds. I wasnt aware FreeBSD project is a 'feminist project' that values keeping female contributors around despite their behavior over male contributors doing actual work, exposing the same type of behaviour (to be perfectly clear, xmj got into a 'fight' where he shouldnt, so I consider the blame to be shared here). Regards, BL From owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Thu Jul 16 11:39:03 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46CD89A3CD4 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 11:39:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from akruijff@dds.nl) Received: from smtpgw.dds.nl (smtpgw.dds.nl [91.142.252.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0ED141FEF for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 11:39:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from akruijff@dds.nl) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (195-241-24-75.ip.open.net [195.241.24.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtpgw.dds.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 845637FCA8 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 13:29:20 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <55A7958F.9000904@dds.nl> Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 13:29:19 +0200 From: Alex de Kruijff User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct... References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.7 at smtpgw.dds.nl X-Virus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 11:39:03 -0000 On 16-07-2015 13:14, Big Lebowski wrote: >> Johannes Jost Meixner writes: >>> I - as a male - feel not only not tolerated, but also discriminated >>> against, >> There are approximately 400 active committers, and not even five of >> those are women. How the *hell* can you claim to be discriminated >> against when you are part of a 99% majority? >> > So you are saying that one person can't complain against other person > actions/behaviour strictly because it is part of some majority? That's like > very sexist (given we're talking about being male/female here) and > discriminative (in general) thing since you're denying him the same rights > simply because he's a male. > He has a point. The following quote is from the movie Philidephia: "This is the essence of discrminiation formulating oppions on others not based on there individual merrits, but rather on there membership of a group with the same charakteristics." Saying you feel discriminated agains implies that you are being juged on your membership of a group. Alex From owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Thu Jul 16 11:40:45 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 445D29A3DB8 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 11:40:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marin@olivarim.com) Received: from 7.mo68.mail-out.ovh.net (7.mo68.mail-out.ovh.net [46.105.63.230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E994E10F0 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 11:40:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marin@olivarim.com) Received: from mail642.ha.ovh.net (b6.ovh.net [213.186.33.56]) by mo68.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 920EDFFA70B for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 13:03:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (HELO queueout) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 16 Jul 2015 13:03:12 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO nic-ppc-marin) (marin@olivarim.com@82.240.160.119) by ns0.ovh.net with AES128-GCM-SHA256 encrypted SMTP; 16 Jul 2015 13:03:10 +0200 Message-ID: <1437044560.4045.40.camel@olivarim.com> Subject: Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct... From: Marin Bernard To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 13:02:40 +0200 In-Reply-To: <55A68A4C.7070402@mailoo.org> References: <55A647EE.4080504@meixner.dk> <55A68A4C.7070402@mailoo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.16.3 (3.16.3-2.fc22) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 10335198196091529189 X-Ovh-Remote: 82.240.160.119 () X-Ovh-Local: 213.186.33.20 (ns0.ovh.net) X-OVH-SPAMSTATE: OK X-OVH-SPAMSCORE: 49 X-OVH-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrfeekvddrieduucetufdoteggucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuqfggjfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucgoufhushhpvggtthffohhmrghinhculdegledm X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: 49 X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrfeekvddrieduucetufdoteggucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuqfggjfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucgoufhushhpvggtthffohhmrghinhculdegledm X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 11:40:45 -0000 This is a highly subjective point of view. People are responsible for what they release publicly. Many people, men and women, feminist or not, disagree with this kind of communication. As a male, feminist, pro -LGBT individual, I do. And I really do understand Johannes' position. A Code of conduct must apply to anybody. And it must apply even stronger if you own any important position. I could change my profile picture to this http://bit.ly/1Lc6B3V or that http://bit.ly/1Mcf0ob, and then pretend that's some kind of subtle irony because, as a gay boy, I'm unable to hate women. The move wouldn't be smart, of course. It would probably be damageable to my own reputation, but not to the community, as I'm Mr. Nobody. As an influential member of the community though, and even more as an Online Abuse Prevention Expert, people would get quite a different message. I think that's what happens with the "male tears" thing. Believe it or not, it may offense people. Not everybody; certain people. I'm not involved in the FreeBSD community, even if it might change in the future. Like other people, I only subscribed to the ML to stay up to date. As a result, I have a very detached point of view on the situation. The whole communication about all this is a disaster: it convinced me to give myself some time to think before getting more involved. I'm probably not the only one to feel that way. The whole Code of conduct idea is really great. It's too bad that people in charge of it have such selective, fixed ideas of what may or may not hurt people. I expect them to be overcome their own personal views on that matter; that's why they are here. Le mercredi 15 juillet 2015 à 18:29 +0200, Edelwin Khaelos a écrit : > Hello Johannes, > The concept of quote "male tears" unquote makes fun of people > identifying (and recognized as) males in the society who complain > about > being oppressed (in a patriarchal society). This is of course a > highly > ironical term. You can read more at > http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/08/08/ironic_misandry_why_f > eminists_joke_about_drinking_male_tears_and_banning.html > > and to quote this article: > « Ironic misandry is “a reductio ad absurdum”[…]. “It's inhabiting > the > most exaggerated, implausible distortion of your position, in order > to > show that it's ridiculous.” ». > > Yes, you can chill out, you are not going to be hunted for your tears > by > a horde of feminists as if you were the white rhinoceros :) > > Le 15/07/2015 13:45, Johannes Jost Meixner a écrit : > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA256 > > > > Dear all, > > > > I actually like our new code of conduct. It protects my rights as a > > human being, and it gives me safety in knowing that they will be > > respected by my fellow FreeBSD developers. > > > > However... > > > > The code of conduct explicitly states that discrimination based on > > gender is one such issue that is -explicitly- forbidden, and that > > interpersonal communication is to be kept civil, tolerant and > > impersonal > > . > > > > > > Obviously, when a member of the FreeBSD community sets out to > > collect > > quote "male tears" unquote, I see this as a huge disservice to the > > advocacy of the FreeBSD project, and there is a time and place for > > making my dissent public. I have kept quiet over the whole affair > > that > > was spurred by my taunting that person on Twitter; today that > > person > > has gone too far. > > > > > > I - as a male - feel not only not tolerated, but also discriminated > > against, because the action so taken has shown that the person > > taking > > this action (while celebrating the code of conduct) does not value > > it > > in the slightest. > > > > > > Given my previous run-in with that person, I have thought twice > > before > > posting this email. > > > > > > If that person keeps continuing to break the code of conduct this > > person advocated for, and keeps doing that in the name and with > > consent of the FreeBSD community, > > > > > > I shall immediately cease all public contributions to the FreeBSD > > project, including but not limited to > > > > - - upstreaming all the patches I have generated that have not made > > it > > into the portstree -so far- > > > > - - contributing new, and updating outdated ports as well as fixing > > bugs > > (last I counted, I had 216 ports commits under my belt) > > > > - - reviewing the 64bit Linux Emulation ports as well as > > maintaining > > *any* of the 32bit ports, which I myself contributed during 9 > > months > > of hard work, > > > > - - advocacy events I had planned for this fall to happen in > > Estonia > > with Garage48.org, and started organizing with the Tallinn > > Technical > > University, > > > > - - various small improvements to the FreeBSD documentation. > > > > > > I do not stand for a community that gives itself a Code of Conduct, > > and in that the very members who advocate for it -- kick it with > > their > > own feets. > > > > > > Screenshots of the material in question attached. > > > > > > > > - -- > > Best regards, > > > > Johannes Meixner > > > > “If you saw Atlas, the giant who holds the world on his shoulders, > > if > > you saw that he stood, blood running down his chest, his knees > > buckling, his arms trembling but still trying to hold the world > > aloft > > with the last of his strength, and the greater his effort the > > heavier > > the world bore down upon his shoulders - What would you tell him?" > > > > "I…don't know. What…could he do? What would you tell him?" > > > > "To shrug.” > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v2 > > > > iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJVpkfsAAoJEElqnXBiUNQCmy0QAJPh0NMOk/a88QLnwv5L/EWe > > 86W81++ed7loEo7p25Laqk2kx1fU+x4UXszEj8Z7hF7FxNO5P+r2T9RBmg7CCmUj > > 8PwINpHFM8Mo03Pn9Zzbm1QMTpmsnttOfI5lclOJeE1/+LnLt2ebKO/3Aj9bFbZ5 > > LtPQ/bDINWunAIfaUxHVBw5j18p4HBsa8OeE2+97Al2/fqHUN/V1DJEgRM5eRM0F > > fifBPw2sE4EQE2xS4ZJ2M/CrGAr8xBQ1inlDCFjghTZ6IOwCb2kmQldZG1A/3u0E > > uDuN+Xr9J9JTcf2/kj0qvY0SVsasIT2EYdaG9KnqoioHNE4MvgkERkVGWMDg2AiO > > /O4m1rUxgM2dY9UY8PclftWrylzM3D3NFWyeYnsnPiHoD7nuOgMs+LxDQifIPQis > > YT6AW95QjScHQBnLwiJRZVR9c9hItyPW/+58OTMdD2eYIDjSjekA9OcSjfQbnz8H > > +LKNEzLd4kFWHIglXlpIVdQFTVCqNINCzSA1kkijNlhy2Kbxa+csZio7JZPF/27x > > DVa6Voyfag4vYlHZxpos1Sy40KWpWIrmcUpUUQ/jMoxEfkfg/BDvsW421nfSnldM > > OoY8DqiLlEfY+TmzJQ8hd8RoasaYZxAb8aHuBUojwtsrTF2XvfrS4IZlapN2Q1xW > > P78VPIAIxRalYRkIA0ib > > =ayEV > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > > freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Thu Jul 16 12:52:55 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4CC599C256 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 12:52:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from edelwin@mailoo.org) Received: from mailoo.org (arnold.mailoo.org [212.83.147.198]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A643D15AF for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 12:52:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from edelwin@mailoo.org) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by arnold.mailoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08C671E7 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 14:53:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [172.27.8.2] (pangea.random.sh [212.83.168.157]) by arnold.mailoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 241421A7 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 14:53:42 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct... To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: From: Edelwin Khaelos Message-ID: <55A7A913.40801@mailoo.org> Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 14:52:35 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 12:52:56 -0000 >> There are approximately 400 active committers, and not even five of >> those are women. How the *hell* can you claim to be discriminated >> against when you are part of a 99% majority? >> > > So you are saying that one person can't complain against other person > actions/behaviour strictly because it is part of some majority? That's like > very sexist (given we're talking about being male/female here) and > discriminative (in general) thing since you're denying him the same rights > simply because he's a male. > > I think that's realy bad thing. Congratulations, you totally missed the point :) You are saying that a person belonging to a *ruling* majority is being discriminated against in their own ruling majority by a concept which denounces a whiny and hypocrite behaviour (male tears: when a member of this ruling majority tries ‑unsuccessfully‑ to impersonate an oppressed minority when their ruling position is in jeopardy). (good luck in you life, by the way, because this kind of behaviour only works on the Internet… or at least that's what you thought ;) From owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Thu Jul 16 13:47:50 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA4E799CCD2 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 13:47:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris.benesch@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ie0-x235.google.com (mail-ie0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B44111E32 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 13:47:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris.benesch@gmail.com) Received: by ietj16 with SMTP id j16so56075004iet.0 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 06:47:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=WEYeAK1361SyIgVuVzgX6ekTcRSLjaSxZlGNgttGSVE=; b=H9oedp0Lc5qFiy9cBefljMDcWbhmfR5o5VzUgt5o+veN6NViDRaTrXCGSRhD6X4uNL ugE2borNuLK/2vhrzGzKJE6fwWC8Wqcte2UiGLINVuLe73TTzXvEC9qtRxnktlj7Wk1F FDT+Rz8nyvLpK8Ch1zZsTQPlLFVqxuMsgwuvZJ7SfmxhSiJ1oRYDWosSfokM+TG+KH3a zDhVMP3j7VgABhM2ffa7BPrEsYH6p0ybJbMMIa6B+O0gb5TZcidTefkWBUkWkKT6SLbn RiMhBd4u9rXsp/35kw0jjT9U9SlUAPYHWv6ePpaDqE3HZD4lPjuV3BMvXJ8r27+e1YOg Bykg== X-Received: by 10.107.152.144 with SMTP id a138mr11713667ioe.149.1437054468633; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 06:47:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:470:4b:329:14a0:a003:685a:5e98? ([2001:470:4b:329:14a0:a003:685a:5e98]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id k74sm5017116iok.30.2015.07.16.06.47.46 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 16 Jul 2015 06:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55A7B601.1090700@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 07:47:45 -0600 From: Chris Benesch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct... References: <55A7A913.40801@mailoo.org> In-Reply-To: <55A7A913.40801@mailoo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 13:47:50 -0000 This is a tough thing to be in the middle of, but lets look at the facts. I moderated a forum for years, and it had no clearly defined goal like this community, so it was nothing but people poking sticks at each other and/or local government. 1 . Randi basically called Johannes a "whiny little prick". Sorry I couldnt see the attachments he provided but based on her responses, I dont think I'm far off. 2 . Johannes says that she should stop because we have a code of conduct that prohibits that. Whoever is a majority or minority or whatever doesnt matter. This is about the good of our operating system that we know and love. If people want to fight, insult, date each other, or discuss the latest episode of Friends, do it on the appropriate forum or through traditional email. I'm a nobody, I contributed to pstree ten years ago when AIX5L came out. All I am saying is dont feed the troll, and most of all, dont let the immature actions of one individual sabotage valuable work to an important cause. There are a lot of personality types involved here, and just because you dont like them as a friend isnt what this is all about. If you dont like them, dont talk to them, simple as that. Personal attacks have no place here. And yes, Randi, those are personal attacks, no matter how much you try to intellectualize them. On 7/16/2015 6:52 AM, Edelwin Khaelos wrote: >>> There are approximately 400 active committers, and not even five of >>> those are women. How the *hell* can you claim to be discriminated >>> against when you are part of a 99% majority? >>> >> >> So you are saying that one person can't complain against other person >> actions/behaviour strictly because it is part of some majority? >> That's like >> very sexist (given we're talking about being male/female here) and >> discriminative (in general) thing since you're denying him the same >> rights >> simply because he's a male. >> >> I think that's realy bad thing. > > Congratulations, you totally missed the point :) > > You are saying that a person belonging to a *ruling* majority is being > discriminated against in their own ruling majority by a concept which > denounces a whiny and hypocrite behaviour (male tears: when a member > of this ruling majority tries ‑unsuccessfully‑ to impersonate an > oppressed minority when their ruling position is in jeopardy). > > (good luck in you life, by the way, because this kind of behaviour > only works on the Internet… or at least that's what you thought ;) > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Thu Jul 16 15:12:55 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F8F89A31DC for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 15:12:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from milios@ccsys.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A387160A for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 15:12:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from milios@ccsys.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 4910D9A31DB; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 15:12:55 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48A009A31DA for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 15:12:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from milios@ccsys.com) Received: from cargobay.net (cargobay.net [198.178.123.147]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2898E1609 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 15:12:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from milios@ccsys.com) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (cblmdm72-240-160-19.buckeyecom.net [72.240.160.19]) by cargobay.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 76F173F1; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 15:13:50 +0000 (UTC) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2102\)) Subject: Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct... From: "Chad J. Milios" In-Reply-To: <55A647EE.4080504@meixner.dk> Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 11:12:47 -0400 Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Message-Id: References: <55A647EE.4080504@meixner.dk> To: Johannes Jost Meixner X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2102) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.20 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 15:12:55 -0000 I think you created detached signatures by mistake. Against all my = better judgement, I=E2=80=99m curious to see the .png=E2=80=99s and = somehow I=E2=80=99m sure I=E2=80=99m not the only one. You=E2=80=99ll no = doubt forgive me for failing to more closely follow this drama. > On Jul 15, 2015, at 7:45 AM, Johannes Jost Meixner = wrote: >=20 > Screenshots of the material in question attached. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Thu Jul 16 16:38:37 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5D5F9A3404 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 16:38:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johannes@meixner.or.at) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C6441FFA for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 16:38:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johannes@meixner.or.at) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 8BB059A3403; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 16:38:37 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B3DA9A3401 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 16:38:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johannes@meixner.or.at) Received: from dd16522.kasserver.com (dd16522.kasserver.com [85.13.137.124]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5109F1FF9 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 16:38:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johannes@meixner.or.at) Received: from mx12.chaot.net (65-251-190-90.dyn.estpak.ee [90.190.251.65]) by dd16522.kasserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7ED9B456092 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 18:38:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx12.chaot.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]); by mx12.chaot.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 92df6d90; for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 19:38:26 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <55A7DE02.907@meixner.dk> Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 19:38:26 +0300 From: Johannes Jost Meixner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct... References: In-Reply-To: OpenPGP: id=C18F24928F1D36EA4FA0B2EF496A9D706250D402 X-Forwarded-Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 16:38:37 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 As requested, an imgur album of the tweets in question, because no one seems to be able to read the original attachments of Randi Harper's "celebrating" the release of the Code of Conduct. http://imgur.com/a/XBOen Yes, I know I could take this with a grain of salt, and that I could relax and take it as the joke that everyone else here seems to understand. However, this joke is in no language known to me so far. How would the world like it if I celebrated this same code of conduct, collecting "female tears"? I bet, if I were to post that, I would have generated a huge shitstorm in doing that. But then, equality exists only in parts, and some animals are more equal than others. - -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct... Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 08:53:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremy C. Reed To: Johannes Jost Meixner > Screenshots of the material in question attached. They were not attached. Just the detached signatures. See the archive also only shows the two .sig files https://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=0+0+current/freebsd-advoca cy+raw (I am guessin that generic URL will change soon.) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJVp93/AAoJEElqnXBiUNQCQHIP/j1yXWfYMrM4lGwMXNfBqnbv MXz9rJNJEZrXrVdNvcDK9kKvQiPVX7KMUP/H99UzVU2jKAq0vw67colaNK34aqSR FUG4nfptAX4+0BwDIUll8fQ/4+2eroZ6Zfmzk/t9AI0hik/cZNNLwWvvtotI+k2B 5Zw+7nbhSfzV4LsIneHQ7eiKK/QbckF1VH/oAuhpfSpcNK8tETuvynmn4wAyT3Oi f67ztHEOte9b3FYUNkyvpfKzraxD+q1Y4xEnGmgIDtTabKVp8D6XYAtdxhLw7d01 yuMXgQQIkw4L3XE6ZtkAQTeSsv7lIjo38uVCEKGVlWOj5ACxTRQxxYXUlwD+ONP7 Z79UjprfsBF9cJ4Ny7m8MRZUEVZ4y/pXnwCbJBpGh0bwaDTkKrqwphYN4mvmu4X3 MpHf9k5AmCwZJZkTAUk3iji/yUg8M+OaNIfr/dTbtGq81qG8NwKWOPLPfsyOaTPd nX6G0ZYUdwL+fXva8vdVRA01RVK6C8uw5vyqIpP2IH6RH8x823wfOf412IUeZkHp OksLB7exWvspBVBxMqXVKkfD6DJ0leFqKgJSL5P5RYhn78094DB5wKsAgHaxk36D 8eIWWWOY1WOeN/xkIHTplVnBXKFTjEbjFf54KHMnmWjBPCvdR0RCtCqOeurmrepu GJaXQkF3VN2aMuw4WpCF =hF7c -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Thu Jul 16 19:52:07 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3C219A472B for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 19:52:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tony.t@me.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7ABE10D4 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 19:52:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tony.t@me.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id D69AA9A472A; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 19:52:06 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D62539A4729 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 19:52:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tony.t@me.com) Received: from st13p11im-asmtp001.me.com (st13p11im-asmtp001.me.com [17.164.40.160]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF5EF10D3 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 19:52:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tony.t@me.com) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (114-198-28-33.dyn.iinet.net.au [114.198.28.33]) by st13p11im-asmtp001.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.35.0 64bit (built Mar 31 2015)) with ESMTPSA id <0NRL008GHGE30J40@st13p11im-asmtp001.me.com> for advocacy@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 18:51:45 +0000 (GMT) Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2102\)) Subject: Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct... From: Tony Theodore In-reply-to: <55A7DE02.907@meixner.dk> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 04:51:38 +1000 Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Message-id: References: <55A7DE02.907@meixner.dk> To: Johannes Jost Meixner X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2102) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.14.151,1.0.33,0.0.0000 definitions=2015-07-16_06:2015-07-16,2015-07-16,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1412110000 definitions=main-1507160279 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 19:52:07 -0000 > On 17 Jul 2015, at 02:38, Johannes Jost Meixner = wrote: >=20 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 >=20 > As requested, an imgur album of the tweets in question, because no one > seems to be able to read the original attachments of Randi Harper's > "celebrating" the release of the Code of Conduct. >=20 > http://imgur.com/a/XBOen Now I=E2=80=99m completely lost. It took me a while to click that link = for fear of where it would lead=E2=80=A6 > Yes, I know I could take this with a grain of salt, and that I could > relax and take it as the joke that everyone else here seems to > understand. However, this joke is in no language known to me so far. I don=E2=80=99t get the =E2=80=9Cjoke=E2=80=9D either (happens to me a = lot), but I can appreciate the levity of a cutesy costume. =E2=80=9CMale tears=E2=80=9D =3D=3D=3D =E2=80=9CPower to Serve=E2=80=9D, = show me you get that. > How would the world like it if I celebrated this same code of conduct, > collecting "female tears=E2=80=9D? Try it and see. Do you want to collect female tears? > I bet, if I were to post that, I would have generated a huge shitstorm > in doing that. Really, try it and see. FreeBSD Advocacy is not the platform to place = such bets. > But then, equality exists only in parts, and some > animals are more equal than others. Exactly. Think very, very, very hard about that statement. Cheers, Tony From owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Thu Jul 16 20:29:23 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5A179A3023 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 20:29:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sektie@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93E7C19E4 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 20:29:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sektie@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 908369A3022; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 20:29:23 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F0549A3020 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 20:29:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sektie@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-x232.google.com (mail-ob0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55D2419E3 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 20:29:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sektie@gmail.com) Received: by obbgp5 with SMTP id gp5so54198368obb.0 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 13:29:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=RqbuoplclON09nJu8Rfo/+cYDLK1xJYmkwvhpvtcUZA=; b=gFTeYazjiiFOpGZpAAJm+MsC1+20TW1h+4ihWo/WAECmlqUbEQorio5EaGPOdnr+Dx sx3dlwY+kQIKhLVilDOGHqnFYgW5ZTWjuKBBPIHLWyeO3PA4UkTivXlpXijfqVqEcOc2 qxdBeb+3jG0aYYkanKqNOjr/086PzSxUb3vZXG70A3nQ3lEulP23fkcZCZwCtJlghKKN FYWgGny2Hf/5Fp7tSS+BIKLa6Q7TMAQtAxCD+SDldU+Faffvs4zsEGH0u+s008PzOwzK 8hCJTKlCdXEsPku34QdhdXtDTylsdOIAdsVmUlmz7KAfagSMxDyAPx5EN77L4FU7qdQq +C7Q== X-Received: by 10.202.193.65 with SMTP id r62mr10008140oif.1.1437078562691; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 13:29:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: sektie@gmail.com Received: by 10.202.80.200 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 13:29:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <864ml44hki.fsf@nine.des.no> References: <55A647EE.4080504@meixner.dk> <864ml44hki.fsf@nine.des.no> From: Randi Harper Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 13:29:03 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: _3wquZjrtHb__5J4ySCQh5hR5_0 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct... To: =?UTF-8?Q?Dag=2DErling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= Cc: Johannes Jost Meixner , advocacy@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.20 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 20:29:23 -0000 On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 1:45 AM, Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav wrot= e: > Johannes Jost Meixner writes: > > I - as a male - feel not only not tolerated, but also discriminated > > against, > > There are approximately 400 active committers, and not even five of > those are women. How the *hell* can you claim to be discriminated > against when you are part of a 99% majority? > It's all tacky to have this on the mailing list, and it's all part of his campaign for what he thinks is going to work, because he knows I was asked by core to keep things quiet. He's continuing to target and harass women, however, myself included. This will be my single post on the matter on this mailing list, because this is not the right place to air FreeBSD's dirty laundry, despite him repeatedly trying. A few days ago, a tweet was brought to the attention of my org. It was some MRA/PUA/super racist guy, although I hadn't heard of him before that night. He had posted a picture of a black boy child getting raped along with a snarky statement. We focus more on dev policies and mitigation techniques. This was an extreme case, however. We responded, and this person's account was quickly suspended, as was one of his friends, who commented "boys will be boys". This guy was furious and started directing a stream of vitriol at me from his blog, to which Johannes decided to contribute because he's made it his mission to seek out abusive people and drive them to further harassment. This is who he's siding with. This is what he's contributing. The "male tears" comment wasn't even in relation to Johannes, but instead a reddit thread, which he decided to crop out of the images. In this thread, several people from GamerGate and people outside the project had started posting about SJWs and bigotry before it was eventually moderated by cperciva@. However, he's very determined to find fault in anything I say and find a way to direct it at himself. He's annoying, and he's been threatening me and constantly trying to stir up a mob, with little success. Shockingly, my software works at blocking out the mobs. Weird, huh? Maybe if I could spend less time writing software to mitigate harassment, I could spend time contributing to FreeBSD again. Unfortunately, internet culture is what it is, and it takes time to change, one company or open source project at a time. I wish I could say that I'm shocked that people would object to a Code of Conduct as Johannes did several times - very loudly - but I'm really not. People dislike change, especially cultural change that challenges their social position. It's understandable. However, women make up less than 2% of open source developers. FreeBSD falls below the average. If the project wants to change that, the environment needs to be made more welcoming to women. Right now, it's not, which is made very clear by this mailing list discussion. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Thu Jul 16 20:45:32 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 775E09A3425 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 20:45:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johannes@meixner.or.at) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DBD714A0 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 20:45:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johannes@meixner.or.at) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 5A4F89A3424; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 20:45:32 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4072D9A3423 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 20:45:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johannes@meixner.or.at) Received: from dd16522.kasserver.com (dd16522.kasserver.com [85.13.137.124]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDA75149E for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 20:45:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johannes@meixner.or.at) Received: from mx12.chaot.net (65-251-190-90.dyn.estpak.ee [90.190.251.65]) by dd16522.kasserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9373A456092; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 22:45:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx12.chaot.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]); by mx12.chaot.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 34429fcf; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 23:45:26 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <55A817E6.2080106@meixner.dk> Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 23:45:26 +0300 From: Johannes Jost Meixner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randi Harper CC: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct... References: <55A647EE.4080504@meixner.dk> <864ml44hki.fsf@nine.des.no> In-Reply-To: OpenPGP: id=C18F24928F1D36EA4FA0B2EF496A9D706250D402 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 20:45:32 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 07/16/2015 23:29, Randi Harper wrote: > On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 1:45 AM, Dag-Erling Smørgrav > wrote: > > Johannes Jost Meixner > writes: >> I - as a male - feel not only not tolerated, but also >> discriminated against, > > There are approximately 400 active committers, and not even five > of those are women. How the *hell* can you claim to be > discriminated against when you are part of a 99% majority? > > > It's all tacky to have this on the mailing list, and it's all part > of his campaign for what he thinks is going to work, because he > knows I was asked by core to keep things quiet. He's continuing to > target and harass women, however, myself included. This will be my > single post on the matter on this mailing list, because this is not > the right place to air FreeBSD's dirty laundry, despite him > repeatedly trying. (Please see http://imgur.com/a/q8Z1u for reference.) I am not harassing women. I am actively mentoring THREE female friends of mine to set up their own businesses here in Eastern Europe. I have been targeted by you, have been libelled in public, and cannot afford an attorney to *force* you to stop. You've cost me, personally, a whooping $2'560 USD *so far*, on one of my clients' contracts. When are you going to pay me for the damage I incurred, directly, because of your actions? You have done enough harm. If you were to just stop, I would walk away immediately. Alas, since your being asked by core to "keep quiet", you have continued to do the very thing I asked you, in public, to stop -- harassing the other side, namely males that think differently than you d o. I am not on the GamerGate site, have not been, will not be. You are framing me as if I were. I don't *care* what stuff is going on there, and after my interactions with people who *are* on the GamerGate side, I find them about as annoying as I found my previous interactions with you. > > A few days ago, a tweet was brought to the attention of my org. It > was some MRA/PUA/super racist guy, although I hadn't heard of him > before that night. He had posted a picture of a black boy child > getting raped along with a snarky statement. We focus more on dev > policies and mitigation techniques. This was an extreme case, > however. We responded, and this person's account was quickly > suspended, as was one of his friends, who commented "boys will be > boys". This guy was furious and started directing a stream of > vitriol at me from his blog, to which Johannes decided to > contribute because he's made it his mission to seek out abusive > people and drive them to further harassment. This is who he's > siding with. This is what he's contributing. You know, I filed a suspension request with Twitter for your account, because the amount of harmful things you post (see http://imgur.com/a/q8Z1u for reference) could clearly be considered as libel, slander, defamation, and many of the things you accuse this guy of doing. That request has been denied by Twitter, because, again, some animals are more equal than others. > > The "male tears" comment wasn't even in relation to Johannes, but > instead a reddit thread, which he decided to crop out of the > images. In this thread, several people from GamerGate and people > outside the project had started posting about SJWs and bigotry > before it was eventually moderated by cperciva@. However, he's very > determined to find fault in anything I say and find a way to direct > it at himself. He's annoying, and he's been threatening me and > constantly trying to stir up a mob, with little success. > Shockingly, my software works at blocking out the mobs. Weird, > huh? I do understand that this "male tears" post of yours was not in relation to myself personally. Do you really think that "collecting male tears" creates good advocacy for the FreeBSD project, which is - as DES so kindly stated, 99% male for the time being? I would love to be in a position to bring in some of the women I have had the chance to work with, during my 15 months as ports committer. Alas, I have not been in that position so far. Chances are, I will not be, mainly due to YOUR very active involvement. > > Maybe if I could spend less time writing software to mitigate > harassment, I could spend time contributing to FreeBSD again. > Unfortunately, internet culture is what it is, and it takes time > to change, one company or open source project at a time. I wish I > could say that I'm shocked that people would object to a Code of > Conduct as Johannes did several times - very loudly - but I'm > really not. People dislike change, especially cultural change that > challenges their social position. It's understandable. However, > women make up less than 2% of open source developers. FreeBSD falls > below the average. If the project wants to change that, the > environment needs to be made more welcoming to women. Right now, > it's not, which is made very clear by this mailing list > discussion. > Maybe if I could spend less time dealing with harassment coming from a person running an Online Abuse Prevention Initiative, I could continue making the FreeBSD ports tree a better place; less broken in parts, with cool gems some female developer friends of mine have been working on, and cool gems some male developer friends of mine have been working on. Alas, you seem to be intent on making the FreeBSD project deny me this chance. - -Johannes -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJVqBfkAAoJEElqnXBiUNQCuhsP/1YJnU7BFjEroozxDLUkDvce WbIqmFIjD5rwYOWzdrh34KScrda0wwTjkIWqplJbjcBHhL7vxmVtGuP5C237fvxk Q2yHsMDlJzhYeAVYzmcezJhKAXFJkI22SsksoCrOP+gZifm4E90FpCmqTHevCkdC tPQE6f+7JQ/azYFH7ocoMK5SWN1vdPG2VKXPRwWhzTnTWdAqsiUvIPx/tmlTD8Tt 8E5KTsyp49ZEAPcyXPaO2Zi40EAllDhx8t0mmBitlpmDQDfftYEqStfEsvNm/fDn zyFCV8t3AAtdDILDfSNQaQMzGa8jGK4kmMcogiH3CsADulth6ZVjJwAAq0/k7zBB 3EJQJaKEHql9IOEy4vp20gVbNsi1WKlwGjyoJdlMcTxGIHCCz80SG1wjlvQDnfMM Q3Uub5oKuWWKqz9RytiXozUCJg8JngJMfY7XFnNYMBVZvT2hzNZ1eiV6ap94MoZA GMeWsSy7aDKMNU2iYNQyHmPMxLGb7Bz0ftIYQTfO1wEpzi1e1j7L6W22xmyNiCXH 0Omx1Cj/cTJFRQ9LI1LA6SLr5AwfpqSWcQIOHGtEdux/L9Bll16Kzdt256AjB2mD /GTkcgVgDregIIBFgAbM+oGFjt2+uOeqQVuA57r/5wqUmhEnKsoxHFDbfxzunFq5 UYOXobEQwhdgOKMNZgFJ =wIdv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Thu Jul 16 21:38:09 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3A769A3C9D for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 21:38:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cenu00@yandex.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4F441DBC for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 21:38:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cenu00@yandex.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id A3D7E9A3C9B; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 21:38:09 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A35CC9A3C9A for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 21:38:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cenu00@yandex.com) Received: from forward13p.cmail.yandex.net (forward13p.cmail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:1465::bc]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "forwards.mail.yandex.net", Issuer "Certum Level IV CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 250D51DBA for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 21:38:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cenu00@yandex.com) Received: from web9g.yandex.ru (web9g.yandex.ru [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:1402::19]) by forward13p.cmail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 31139223AF; Fri, 17 Jul 2015 00:37:55 +0300 (MSK) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by web9g.yandex.ru (Yandex) with ESMTP id 6D61F38E269E; Fri, 17 Jul 2015 00:37:54 +0300 (MSK) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.com; s=mail; t=1437082674; bh=ng8M2CIshCKEVvDbj9xaeB4QF25QQu+VJwWEyPuAevw=; h=From:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:Date; b=TmnV2U+SZ+WLiQvHBIwLN/pWV4AGOwU2/R2TSdm/8EK9NSrcOltWMMj8yAzPj/2es viIL7qy9WytBCl9qW3TKsUOGOqDzhacXUyqwHLcvllGAAOY7a5ey+Nyn0UrY1pTfJ4 fBVlJQV1W3xQJ03yqMjR2dep1bpmPGtnM46so8fU= Received: by web9g.yandex.ru with HTTP; Fri, 17 Jul 2015 00:37:53 +0300 From: Poppy Faria To: Randi Harper , =?utf-8?B?RGFnLUVybGluZyBTbcO4cmdyYXY=?= Cc: Johannes Jost Meixner , "advocacy@freebsd.org" In-Reply-To: References: <55A647EE.4080504@meixner.dk> <864ml44hki.fsf@nine.des.no> Subject: Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct... MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <2272121437082673@web9g.yandex.ru> X-Mailer: Yamail [ http://yandex.ru ] 5.0 Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 22:37:53 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 21:38:09 -0000 If having a code of conduct means that all of this nonsense will stop, then I'm in favor. However, I disagree with the idea of there being a code of conduct based on any political ideologies instead of an agreed upon fabric of moral and ethical decency. But seriously guys, please stop. I'm tire of getting notifications on my phone every five minutes just because a bunch of people have horrible and tasteless accusations to throw at eachother. Everyone, please, just stop it. I think I'm being reasonable here. 16.07.2015, 21:29, "Randi Harper" : > On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 1:45 AM, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > >>  Johannes Jost Meixner writes: >>  > I - as a male - feel not only not tolerated, but also discriminated >>  > against, >> >>  There are approximately 400 active committers, and not even five of >>  those are women. How the *hell* can you claim to be discriminated >>  against when you are part of a 99% majority? > > It's all tacky to have this on the mailing list, and it's all part of his > campaign for what he thinks is going to work, because he knows I was asked > by core to keep things quiet. He's continuing to target and harass women, > however, myself included. This will be my single post on the matter on this > mailing list, because this is not the right place to air FreeBSD's dirty > laundry, despite him repeatedly trying. > > A few days ago, a tweet was brought to the attention of my org. It was some > MRA/PUA/super racist guy, although I hadn't heard of him before that night. > He had posted a picture of a black boy child getting raped along with a > snarky statement. We focus more on dev policies and mitigation techniques. > This was an extreme case, however. We responded, and this person's account > was quickly suspended, as was one of his friends, who commented "boys will > be boys". This guy was furious and started directing a stream of vitriol at > me from his blog, to which Johannes decided to contribute because he's made > it his mission to seek out abusive people and drive them to further > harassment. This is who he's siding with. This is what he's contributing. > > The "male tears" comment wasn't even in relation to Johannes, but instead a > reddit thread, which he decided to crop out of the images. In this thread, > several people from GamerGate and people outside the project had started > posting about SJWs and bigotry before it was eventually moderated by > cperciva@. However, he's very determined to find fault in anything I say > and find a way to direct it at himself. He's annoying, and he's been > threatening me and constantly trying to stir up a mob, with little success. > Shockingly, my software works at blocking out the mobs. Weird, huh? > > Maybe if I could spend less time writing software to mitigate harassment, I > could spend time contributing to FreeBSD again. Unfortunately, internet > culture is what it is, and it takes time to change, one company or open > source project at a time. I wish I could say that I'm shocked that people > would object to a Code of Conduct as Johannes did several times - very > loudly - but I'm really not. People dislike change, especially cultural > change that challenges their social position. It's understandable. However, > women make up less than 2% of open source developers. FreeBSD falls below > the average. If the project wants to change that, the environment needs to > be made more welcoming to women. Right now, it's not, which is made very > clear by this mailing list discussion. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Thu Jul 16 21:49:05 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 698C29A3F07 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 21:49:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from j.stephen.perry@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45C541169 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 21:49:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from j.stephen.perry@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 44ACA9A3F06; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 21:49:05 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 442E09A3F05 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 21:49:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from j.stephen.perry@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oi0-x233.google.com (mail-oi0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 072481168 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 21:49:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from j.stephen.perry@gmail.com) Received: by oigd21 with SMTP id d21so17149317oig.1 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 14:49:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=1TH4xpvJ2LFwcwNVfrdyQmmWrSeU6qBPPUVjDi03doI=; b=JnXTH28p2Vw2FexoMM2ClGLfvfkC/CIFhY8rBg2WzNp6sykj4Hastxz9OutpprN8++ 7VDFRst3GXccy1NSH1XdcZN8PCvZAiozsJi3xrPOBbFj4kCYzPfweeMrjoG7Zp+vR6zH 3K8Nxw1a1HqAMPo8uBMvT1KMP6ymESQY8tfR1uXvxi/DhxXmRLjubYWAlVKP4OKD6fG+ RYnGAq1NoQ4o28hx2QHF7CkrurBSWEl8KOuD9Wps3Gbi6j4Del+qkFbABTtTVrEbZaJv QDTr3f6OWkiVaUQiEvylE1EEPiZQDM+KRv1WyqqaeRHT5/NNnL1kRtRaBCh3zzRBuLG6 pe1w== X-Received: by 10.202.191.139 with SMTP id p133mr9740504oif.130.1437083344037; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 14:49:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.73.78.60] ([166.177.121.174]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j2sm5119650obh.16.2015.07.16.14.49.03 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 16 Jul 2015 14:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct... From: Stephen Perry X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (12H143) In-Reply-To: <2272121437082673@web9g.yandex.ru> Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 16:49:02 -0500 Cc: Randi Harper , =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= , Johannes Jost Meixner , "advocacy@freebsd.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <55A647EE.4080504@meixner.dk> <864ml44hki.fsf@nine.des.no> <2272121437082673@web9g.yandex.ru> To: Poppy Faria X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 21:49:05 -0000 Very reasonable actually. If I keep getting this kind of crap from this mail= ing list I'm going to withdraw from it and cease any personal advocacy for Fre= eBSD going forward through social media and professional contacts. On Jul 16, 2015, at 4:37 PM, Poppy Faria wrote: If having a code of conduct means that all of this nonsense will stop, then I= 'm in favor. However, I disagree with the idea of there being a code of cond= uct based on any political ideologies instead of an agreed upon fabric of mo= ral and ethical decency. But seriously guys, please stop. I'm tire of getting notifications on my pho= ne every five minutes just because a bunch of people have horrible and taste= less accusations to throw at eachother. Everyone, please, just stop it. I th= ink I'm being reasonable here. 16.07.2015, 21:29, "Randi Harper" : >> On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 1:45 AM, Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav wr= ote: >>=20 >> Johannes Jost Meixner writes: >> > I - as a male - feel not only not tolerated, but also discriminated >> > against, >>=20 >> There are approximately 400 active committers, and not even five of >> those are women. How the *hell* can you claim to be discriminated >> against when you are part of a 99% majority? >=20 > It's all tacky to have this on the mailing list, and it's all part of his > campaign for what he thinks is going to work, because he knows I was asked= > by core to keep things quiet. He's continuing to target and harass women, > however, myself included. This will be my single post on the matter on thi= s > mailing list, because this is not the right place to air FreeBSD's dirty > laundry, despite him repeatedly trying. >=20 > A few days ago, a tweet was brought to the attention of my org. It was som= e > MRA/PUA/super racist guy, although I hadn't heard of him before that night= . > He had posted a picture of a black boy child getting raped along with a > snarky statement. We focus more on dev policies and mitigation techniques.= > This was an extreme case, however. We responded, and this person's account= > was quickly suspended, as was one of his friends, who commented "boys will= > be boys". This guy was furious and started directing a stream of vitriol a= t > me from his blog, to which Johannes decided to contribute because he's mad= e > it his mission to seek out abusive people and drive them to further > harassment. This is who he's siding with. This is what he's contributing. >=20 > The "male tears" comment wasn't even in relation to Johannes, but instead a= > reddit thread, which he decided to crop out of the images. In this thread,= > several people from GamerGate and people outside the project had started > posting about SJWs and bigotry before it was eventually moderated by > cperciva@. However, he's very determined to find fault in anything I say > and find a way to direct it at himself. He's annoying, and he's been > threatening me and constantly trying to stir up a mob, with little success= . > Shockingly, my software works at blocking out the mobs. Weird, huh? >=20 > Maybe if I could spend less time writing software to mitigate harassment, I= > could spend time contributing to FreeBSD again. Unfortunately, internet > culture is what it is, and it takes time to change, one company or open > source project at a time. I wish I could say that I'm shocked that people > would object to a Code of Conduct as Johannes did several times - very > loudly - but I'm really not. People dislike change, especially cultural > change that challenges their social position. It's understandable. However= , > women make up less than 2% of open source developers. FreeBSD falls below > the average. If the project wants to change that, the environment needs to= > be made more welcoming to women. Right now, it's not, which is made very > clear by this mailing list discussion. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " _______________________________________________ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"= From owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Thu Jul 16 22:43:20 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 506DF9A47AB for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 22:43:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from apostolic_seeker@yahoo.com) Received: from nm49-vm0.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm49-vm0.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.121.128]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E85812B5 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 22:43:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from apostolic_seeker@yahoo.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1437086410; bh=Zp+zoc5hFjkyzrzS4OfZJzF/oHFaDAl6kRd6m0X3ujk=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=cqbWhTsttxQU8BcCASyeMl0jydraNTIF4NDVGYgCB8uTBEWQey+e5Ef3GHcosdu9H7Z9DYbkQ1ACMV1Fn/hdstdG3TiNEzNCd1DnQyAesgQUHHeYcEIUhKbmAgQiV0rGzFdElKffLetlsV/fwE5tPkqO09Fy1E9AA9Ydm0ydNNHSlNeLbLWhvgWgFPG39k7ha7MD8+S3qmSuielnAhznPEXvLdnFVb7SDfIl+SruP3Lci7vGsnLkJJ6s6TcZuTybc+qdGyNURNyF8pJMuEnxOZwSUDyihV//sy54D+VKmlLWe7bwF+H/Q4GWGg6lBiWjWOdoTmObEy4iobx6ZohvpA== Received: from [127.0.0.1] by nm49.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2015 22:40:10 -0000 Received: from [98.138.100.116] by nm49.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2015 22:37:18 -0000 Received: from [98.138.89.195] by tm107.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2015 22:37:18 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1053.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2015 22:37:18 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-4 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 768480.98818.bm@omp1053.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: NiUSmC0VM1mtp2GIiqhX2A0TWdGcJpdDmemKam.2fv8jk1nLhuR6gkmRpFZfgyO H3NQN_oCB4kwAV0MZfO7AgGilEquYh3OKFXc_T_PJrtoJsiBY1CZuRPrwulT7HoqxF__9NLQ1Ej0 p558sVhyhCWGvRqOEK1g49mfqujkoZHgwVZqPEreXuPpwEMBdlDaCyVzFlw0XH3cep0Q0jkhplkF t1lC7LaeLCcomVVGtD1iruAst2E1F7QP.aBrILHV.g12ydXYyp7oCLopcP4tlFL1CZTvQVje1cPr yA6Uly2iJzWy86858Nx8hgZZvgpTXtyT8NlLMJvK5FwVrOkeJgT4NgNVMdzlTYF3opEiNQCIzxdO zbgUggl2Q0L8t7zv9ay1kssUY.M4JDIQEKa_QlDrZHO1uVUbf7zxwjMjLupRh.OjpObzGbE1eNXV uVpO6WMwwmqJdkXoiFTiqd.A1oMKPxGW4lvojHDScK5ZsLkwdqphH850Ig0bDmNi9sAYQtFAcDBB jznw5lA61cr8Tka7vGfCBKa3vYcSwCFo- Received: by 98.138.101.166; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 22:37:18 +0000 Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 22:37:17 +0000 (UTC) From: Apostolic Seeker Reply-To: Apostolic Seeker To: "freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org" Message-ID: <918927679.534263.1437086237987.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.20 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 22:43:20 -0000 Last year, during my transition away from Windows, having heard recommendat= ions for both FreeBSD and Linux, I found myselfblocked from many Twitter ac= counts. After some research and asking around, it turned out I was on a bla= cklist simply for interacting with "wrong people" on Twitter. This lead bac= k to a representative of FreeBSD, "FreeBSDGirl", and that she was supported= by your developers.=C2=A0 She was rather verbally aggressive when I reache= d out to her. Because of this negative experience, I opted not to try FreeB= SD and installed Linux, which I have now been using for almost a year. I have long since removed my Twitter account, leaving me able to see beyond= the blacklist again. I see this person, now "Randi Lee Harper", speaking o= f a code of conduct on Twitter. I cannot understand why her behavior is tol= erated, and find myself unable to reconcile this with the high praises I ha= ve heard of FreeBSD, and with a code of conduct. Sincerely, Johann From owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Fri Jul 17 08:28:56 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 444659A4F79 for ; Fri, 17 Jul 2015 08:28:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erich@alogt.com) Received: from alogt.com (alogt.com [69.36.191.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19BE912F6 for ; Fri, 17 Jul 2015 08:28:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erich@alogt.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alogt.com; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=UU4oELPN27RSNUL2lEH7I6Qa8eBfbqzOmFMN50stuKs=; b=PZo9PplYnQcc2wAfrN+rNthyVhVeEH6VTKdqgEH4eZCVy9QfrAheyXcm0xhL5yclti6fA95jfquipgxEhcJyS7HfHqYK7nZ2CihCa0p9GJVP0mBZ62/Ny7GdhU9HliPl8m44DMFIymfwIZCxbhuy7NTDXFNmF8/NUc8ZqUE+Svs=; Received: from [114.121.128.33] (port=42790 helo=X220.alogt.com) by sl-508-2.slc.westdc.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZG10i-001TQM-8B for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Fri, 17 Jul 2015 02:28:48 -0600 Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 16:28:41 +0800 From: Erich Dollansky To: Apostolic Seeker via freebsd-advocacy Subject: Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct... Message-ID: <20150717162841.541449a9@X220.alogt.com> In-Reply-To: <918927679.534263.1437086237987.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <918927679.534263.1437086237987.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Organization: ALO Green Technologies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - sl-508-2.slc.westdc.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - alogt.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: sl-508-2.slc.westdc.net: authenticated_id: erich@alogt.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 08:28:56 -0000 Hi, On Thu, 16 Jul 2015 22:37:17 +0000 (UTC) Apostolic Seeker via freebsd-advocacy wrote: > Last year, during my transition away from Windows, having heard > recommendations for both FreeBSD and Linux, I found myselfblocked > from many Twitter accounts. After some research and asking around, it > turned out I was on a blacklist simply for interacting with "wrong > people" on Twitter. This lead back to a representative of FreeBSD, > "FreeBSDGirl", and that she was supported by your developers.=C2=A0 She > was rather verbally aggressive when I reached out to her. Because of > this negative experience, I opted not to try FreeBSD and installed > Linux, which I have now been using for almost a year. >=20 > I have long since removed my Twitter account, leaving me able to see > beyond the blacklist again. I see this person, now "Randi Lee > Harper", speaking of a code of conduct on Twitter. I cannot > understand why her behavior is tolerated, and find myself unable to > reconcile this with the high praises I have heard of FreeBSD, and > with a code of conduct. >=20 sounds like the good, old Blockwarts are back in town. Erich