From owner-freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org Sun Dec 10 04:29:51 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-amd64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC5C0E81AC2 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 04:29:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from markscho65@icloud.com) Received: from mr26p50im-ztdg04121101.me.com (mr26p50im-ztdg04121101.me.com [17.120.69.158]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF99038F9 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 04:29:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from markscho65@icloud.com) Received: from process-dkim-sign-daemon.mr26p50im-ztdg04121101.me.com by mr26p50im-ztdg04121101.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.1.2.20170607 64bit (built Jun 7 2017)) id <0P0Q00B006ZJFH00@mr26p50im-ztdg04121101.me.com> for freebsd-amd64@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 03:29:45 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=icloud.com; s=04042017; t=1512876585; bh=EXj3aa2xIMjSq0fxvOGTWkxndXdzMMh7NcV9yCiV/MY=; h=Content-type:From:MIME-version:Date:Subject:Message-id:To; b=dQwj+ts9ZcHQvzi3sMTMFLjEdU1U5T/5qcvydlKScjKa5HTHhXLeMyUocFkCvV9K0 aO04QAFfjWIKdfBuZSQpATSr3R1GDrcPpCTb6d9RXfOUrMwlBdUXZBopvtZP8Bxkv+ LggCRYKsKHwt3mcKTi/8dqs2AoDdhCtYrdi28QeCIDrFlS+Lj6OOzAjnhzFA8shu+o GkRLmWxW1orli8Q+Gph/CeqeGn57AnixQ1GKOlfga4umyVeLuS4kyZ9TzuVhr5Hlig +hNr5M37tczBpWTUXUQCXRu8vAxEqGbpjwh2v6PIwkZkf+CUviMkLpr1ae59Ms2iD9 wUok+w9N3ARmw== Received: from icloud.com ([127.0.0.1]) by mr26p50im-ztdg04121101.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.1.2.20170607 64bit (built Jun 7 2017)) with ESMTPSA id <0P0Q00NCV71JFN10@mr26p50im-ztdg04121101.me.com> for freebsd-amd64@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 03:29:45 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:,, definitions=2017-12-10_01:,, signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 suspectscore=1 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1707230000 definitions=main-1712100050 From: Mark Schofield MIME-version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2017 21:29:43 -0600 Subject: Dell hardware for FreeBSD Message-id: <011B9ECF-C9B1-4B6A-A503-E160D3F4279F@icloud.com> To: freebsd-amd64@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: iPad Mail (15C114) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 12:41:00 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the AMD64 platform List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 04:29:52 -0000 Hi All I am looking to buy a new Dell laptop and wanted to put FreeBSD on it, but w= as unsure which one is supported. I am looking at a non touchscreen version t= hat to put on it with 8gb ram. Link below http://pilot.search.dell.com/Linux Will FreeBSD install on one of these. Again thanks for any help Mark=20 From owner-freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org Sun Dec 10 15:26:16 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-amd64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BEF5E8ECCF for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 15:26:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from torfinn.ingolfsen@getmail.no) Received: from bouvier.getmail.no (bouvier.getmail.no [84.210.184.8]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2CDE57478D for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 15:26:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from torfinn.ingolfsen@getmail.no) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bouvier.getmail.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 110D0406CD for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 16:18:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from bouvier.getmail.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (bouvier.get.c.bitbit.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id cgiFpiZXfQxh for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 16:18:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bouvier.getmail.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF0C240C5B for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 16:18:36 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.9.2 bouvier.getmail.no BF0C240C5B DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=getmail.no; s=8A9C8B4C-D727-11E2-8095-B6466E6B3FA2; t=1512919116; bh=TTYxA29HKANXPoqVZ+EqO9rU0i4ZDu0wZG8xUJKihPk=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Mime-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=bqiRh89padKK6ZfX05hyKlcUbZ1uH6jzH6giiNolRDkOoE3PNLN7WjQklJCJCJj8X kxYfk84aWGCg4M+66wPbr5Z53Q2xlRGkyFG7rLviGGXS9d5W5OvDTRdhnKKa3M1iCY Ij9CZT+h4dhM55WG0j8ksmSZWkQZ6CXCt6sPaMGE= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at bouvier.get.c.bitbit.net Received: from bouvier.getmail.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (bouvier.get.c.bitbit.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 7gliyBldkUov for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 16:18:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from kg-core1.kg4.no (cm-84.209.39.108.getinternet.no [84.209.39.108]) by bouvier.getmail.no (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 95C75406CD for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 16:18:36 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 16:18:36 +0100 From: Torfinn Ingolfsen To: freebsd-amd64@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Dell hardware for FreeBSD Message-Id: <20171210161836.3df0801184f7f1452cd20d3e@getmail.no> In-Reply-To: <011B9ECF-C9B1-4B6A-A503-E160D3F4279F@icloud.com> References: <011B9ECF-C9B1-4B6A-A503-E160D3F4279F@icloud.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.6.0 (GTK+ 2.24.31; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.3) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the AMD64 platform List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 15:26:16 -0000 On Sat, 09 Dec 2017 21:29:43 -0600 Mark Schofield wrote: > Hi All > > I am looking to buy a new Dell laptop and wanted to put FreeBSD on it, but was unsure which one is supported. I am looking at a non touchscreen version that to put on it with 8gb ram. Link below > > http://pilot.search.dell.com/Linux > > > Will FreeBSD install on one of these. FreeBSD will install. But - Intel Graphics for newer chipsets (like those used with 7th generation Intel Core cpus) will very likely not work out of the box. Also, some of the hardware inside the laptop might be unsupported (no FreeBSD driver), for example the wireless (there has been lots of progress here lately, with both iwn and iwm drivers, so it might work). There have been reports that people have got Intel Graphics working with the drm-next-kmod[1] port, but I haven't tried this, so YMMV. In general, buying a new laptop to use a FreeBSD desktop machine today is difficult, both because the vendors / shops seldoms lists all technical specifications - you have to do all research yourself, and because many "Linux-supported" products from well known vendors like Dell and others use proprietary drivers in Linux to be able to claim Linux support. References: 1) https://www.freshports.org/graphics/drm-next-kmod/ -- Torfinn Ingolfsen From owner-freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org Mon Dec 11 14:22:11 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-amd64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF57DE932AB for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 14:22:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jonathan@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [96.47.72.132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9760267018; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 14:22:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jonathan@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [192.168.19.1] (unknown [127.0.1.132]) by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94D8112F2B; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 14:22:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jonathan@FreeBSD.org) From: "Jonathan Anderson" To: "Torfinn Ingolfsen" Cc: freebsd-amd64@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Dell hardware for FreeBSD Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 10:52:09 -0330 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20171210161836.3df0801184f7f1452cd20d3e@getmail.no> References: <011B9ECF-C9B1-4B6A-A503-E160D3F4279F@icloud.com> <20171210161836.3df0801184f7f1452cd20d3e@getmail.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.7r5425) X-BeenThere: freebsd-amd64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the AMD64 platform List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 14:22:11 -0000 On 10 Dec 2017, at 11:48, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: > On Sat, 09 Dec 2017 21:29:43 -0600 > Mark Schofield wrote: > >> Hi All >> >> I am looking to buy a new Dell laptop and wanted to put FreeBSD on >> it, but was unsure which one is supported. I am looking at a non >> touchscreen version that to put on it with 8gb ram. Link below >> >> http://pilot.search.dell.com/Linux >> >> >> Will FreeBSD install on one of these. > > FreeBSD will install. But - Intel Graphics for newer chipsets (like > those used with 7th generation Intel Core cpus) will very likely not > work out of the box. Also, some of the hardware inside the laptop > might be unsupported (no FreeBSD driver), for example the wireless > (there has been lots of progress here lately, with both iwn and iwm > drivers, so it might work). I tried to buy a Dell XPS for FreeBSD a year or two ago. It was a beautiful machine with a really nice screen, but after going down the wireless rabbit hole and looking at NDIS wrapping support, I decided that life is too short and that my local Best Buy has a great return policy. :) These days it looks like Dell is using Atheros devices from a company called "Killer", and that chipset may not be supported in FreeBSD yet: https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/63080/ > There have been reports that people have got Intel Graphics working > with the drm-next-kmod[1] port, but I haven't tried this, so YMMV. The graphics stuff has really been coming along (at least with my hardware, which is — admittedly — a bit out-of-date). I think that, on Dell hardware, wireless support might be a bigger blocker. Also watch out for notebooks with touchpads that run over i2c instead of USB: https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-mobile/2016-March/013370.html Such devices apparently work in some contexts with the ig4 driver: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D3068 https://reviews.freebsd.org/D3351 However, YMMV. :) > In general, buying a new laptop to use a FreeBSD desktop machine today > is difficult, both because the vendors / shops seldoms lists all > technical specifications - you have to do all research yourself, and > because > many "Linux-supported" products from well known vendors like Dell and > others use proprietary drivers in Linux to be able to claim Linux > support. Practically speaking, I think there are two approaches to buying a FreeBSD notebook: 1. copy somebody else's machine specs exactly (tends to lead to lots of people using the same slightly-stale ThinkPad, but it works), or 2. buy locally from a store with a good return policy, try it with a live USB environment, return, repeat. I followed the second approach with my most recent FreeBSD notebook purchase (a year or two ago) and I'm fairly pleased with the third notebook I found (an HP Spectre x360). The Intel wireless works (no 802.11ac support yet, but the card does work with iwm7265Dfw), the Intel graphics work with drm-next, the touchscreen did work at least once (though not at the moment) and the SD card support is... hahahahaha, one doesn't expect such luxuries to work with FreeBSD. :) However, I did have to go through the buy/test/return cycle more time than was really convenient. Jon -- Jonathan Anderson jonathan@FreeBSD.org