From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu May 23 17:54:53 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BF0015B0FBA for ; Thu, 23 May 2019 17:54:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hackagadget@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-f50.google.com (mail-lf1-f50.google.com [209.85.167.50]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AFA277597 for ; Thu, 23 May 2019 17:54:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hackagadget@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-f50.google.com with SMTP id h13so5048295lfc.7 for ; Thu, 23 May 2019 10:54:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=PKEZKmb40I6eytWZ4PTahyjxatfNpc2/M4f85qgFivI=; b=VsKLu95W3mmYB6L7TMjd9O7WNcLanC6gjDCXJ7t+pt0XnErkUMUCAaStgfB+NywiQQ pWb4Vl5sGVIXDQdGb25psC0R/fIcR6bEVruwTjTqfHORO0ZEc4u1wc6YfyUZ9/8x9Eob gqtUkbtheU3HIkZfla11fBFulQxuE5TS6vpn6y5u8yUNEHYQTt9esHhU1UbjEZYgJDdP g8/PowlEErycGZIYM7sruQ2N4E2X1/2z+6ZJP1WcE9eGwyqjIZQ1luL8lT6Xxkd+MdJH 2S6T9NxW3l61s7/CLvUYalxzRWyaOZx5qNxeTHhTFoBT28yZ/W59e4F7QF0A0O6an8M1 DOdg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVPgOgOpd60bZNiYi1ao7zOpDYfcp6GLPzTlIiXsvdDSfpvGrO+ 3PwZ+2Q5I4R/oq8e2IJOdjHZ1R/TM+o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwQ81Q4tCqOddOshitvltFgzKZfAhWedS0cKY1VngSuek0lDX0B1S61epPY+hinGxh8kS+Cfw== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4c17:: with SMTP id t23mr5962114lfq.41.1558634084287; Thu, 23 May 2019 10:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-f174.google.com (mail-lj1-f174.google.com. [209.85.208.174]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u5sm38226ljg.4.2019.05.23.10.54.44 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 23 May 2019 10:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-f174.google.com with SMTP id 14so6315326ljj.5 for ; Thu, 23 May 2019 10:54:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:1032:: with SMTP id w18mr26013013ljm.170.1558634084045; Thu, 23 May 2019 10:54:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190326000956.83bd72411661511656ea1b5d@j.email.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: <20190326000956.83bd72411661511656ea1b5d@j.email.ne.jp> From: "Stephen J. Kiernan" Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 13:54:32 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Trying to upgrade zlib in kernel To: Yoshihiro Ota Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4AFA277597 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of hackagadget@gmail.com designates 209.85.167.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=hackagadget@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.27 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[50.167.85.209.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.964,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[stevek@freebsd.org,hackagadget@gmail.com]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[stevek@freebsd.org,hackagadget@gmail.com]; IP_SCORE(-1.29)[ip: (-0.69), ipnet: 209.85.128.0/17(-3.44), asn: 15169(-2.28), country: US(-0.06)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 17:54:53 -0000 On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 12:14 AM Yoshihiro Ota wrote: > I started wondering if I should move contrib/zlib to sys/contrib/zlib and > wanted to get some feed back on some of coding policies. > I do not think so, since there are things outside of the kernel that also use it. For example: lib/libz, usr.bin/minigzip, stand/libsa -Steve From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu May 23 17:57:16 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95F9415B110D for ; Thu, 23 May 2019 17:57:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hackagadget@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x135.google.com (mail-lf1-x135.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::135]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7278E77710 for ; Thu, 23 May 2019 17:57:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hackagadget@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-x135.google.com with SMTP id n134so5037005lfn.11 for ; Thu, 23 May 2019 10:57:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=MKQemxUs0xAhUgV+Nht92Ya/gVoQUUM536ug20UaL30=; b=q+KvH0oJOCLt2kPcnLtcjAFQZv0mZlV0cdaSzYjmxzJmwAG7rKmqICsffj7AtU3VKa DtcWAwRw8+SfqRBM7tkZtvpmVRNX39cMUZp4KM3GhmvpyfNdFHw1mkMap1bpe3r6OcK0 sgrNqUTjXxhCmiDittHBxTLbCtjrKZoaXN79t1z0SD8VlDzbMrwef+UwhYTAZM6lpVi9 70Fh+DjuwbxM8U3C/cHHp6XAZjddGr/d8HFBbuZwVBrjqWIsop+vA04Pes94LaWKetuy 5udxJeaiI7iKbheOy8GWqy85+jTZTeb5z1b5pR9T53GGveasHIgKzwMFKXddta6HCCXq QSrw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=MKQemxUs0xAhUgV+Nht92Ya/gVoQUUM536ug20UaL30=; b=QJ0D271YdLlUz8G9BQ7WefxWx8e8GRWk01tKqAXQ0vCt0WH/pdkYSg61nhvxpN3b5g 5+YQE5A2T3xzeGDNxORdjuL66e+kTQ9TCNYsYZ6RuBf8GJI8rkVKLcBAi+lpRFt7pfrT gIszVzTIPY0tl1XSVCTtKYbEdmqhbPJNdcBKcbpNUt/B5t8u1MauehTHdQwEDq7ODfyu ccrXYdNmP7dsGMnbpaoTNR569ejJ6X7AIoQGcmELpGzY4E9EG5sfhdcgxWHip8j3bKM3 fGPTmrb8IY6Iv8IOXbwWpmtaFodpXA1hfGng7x53ogR+3fDF4o5lqnnv6hb8DAOHSt5b 4VAg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXwQsDDgPd49D1At2MY+mH4DdCPRO1u1Be53jqIFVZW/XLAI8+8 rMpDJGVI8Uf1sffUfnCnHUiPlkmItRTuvQpWuk0fR8L1 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwRpgJTPxEdYHz8/mNviICF7LrrsvBdRBuzMhfCTWT1dfrQJqL++7OInZpyZfoacUDhz0K6nQ/ZNthxizGHQkI= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:424b:: with SMTP id m11mr1012650lfl.163.1558634233290; Thu, 23 May 2019 10:57:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190326000956.83bd72411661511656ea1b5d@j.email.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: From: Stephen Kiernan Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 13:57:01 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Trying to upgrade zlib in kernel To: Yoshihiro Ota Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7278E77710 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=q+KvH0oJ; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of hackagadget@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::135 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=hackagadget@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.74 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.90)[-0.899,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[5.3.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.83)[ip: (-9.62), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.20), asn: 15169(-2.28), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 17:57:16 -0000 On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 1:54 PM Stephen J. Kiernan wrote: > > > On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 12:14 AM Yoshihiro Ota wrote: > >> I started wondering if I should move contrib/zlib to sys/contrib/zlib and >> wanted to get some feed back on some of coding policies. >> > > I do not think so, since there are things outside of the kernel that also > use it. > > For example: lib/libz, usr.bin/minigzip, stand/libsa > Okay, wow, this was supposed to be sent out weeks ago. Not sure why it went out now. You can ignore it. -Steve From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri May 24 00:35:00 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1577158FC8E for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 00:35:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17AED6B3B6 for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 00:35:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id CC559158FC89; Fri, 24 May 2019 00:34:59 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A75ED158FC87 for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 00:34:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x732.google.com (mail-qk1-x732.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::732]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6B196B3B3 for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 00:34:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x732.google.com with SMTP id z6so4977506qkl.10 for ; Thu, 23 May 2019 17:34:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=2wIy6MXYObpjYCy3shPP4I9CE8K0sINti1N9g6cO8yY=; b=ainMIMsKv018MpGp1/SnLjiO4tuSljLMIxK51gMCq1WX8Gjx8j3GGVgkoGlFNjJRfU E23TGriRdr1xGty24of8DltoWZJbPvFRMdhr8zyRHw2WnhX1pB7ADerHUHVpAuxsGmC9 RznfbkGcB8uRCac1U/+j9mr0YqaAwOjaRCHMdVL+hrwVZeqUWh6+VDsJNlop4XSU6Ul8 Y2tatQqa1e9p3Cf00HqdjUzlmM4E5xNWWKYh5MJHbP76cTgDKz05WcE21lCnpIRdig3b t1JMydCcWP4EDiC2sO0L7zSeARe7D3TtfuuZPI+hZ/ydOkM29edzplICfTaDrZvldvLH RWNA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=2wIy6MXYObpjYCy3shPP4I9CE8K0sINti1N9g6cO8yY=; b=dXbfwqzJZc2/UBbbPLNVRW+ae5TGTKiMAPGuU4YBTt+txxbWFMPfpE30BFUaF0qCvI mswLqfmq6lG2V/GGqDDoTq36kUVHmHJTsJ0ZmuWRkK+xdx+129bsOaI4gf5ZsA9hA/S7 +xZgACb/m2TuSxts2pEvEtxHUtIqa/9Z82zX0BS2j/scpwLomxe6UUcYXSh4ROOghz28 usSbDbTkvxmSj3fw8Rw7BP380Jbs7D8oCIJLim06k0OHP34fHrrsfTwJC9toyEfWcVn4 7ZHQJn0yd2kD/zUx2rrWqXggJkQGreOIbE0vvgHyizWQGwjcZRgCdJeP8k6AiQ3aCTNK JbyA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWkJP7cNBZofTSuyGLEa3zmM9C0M6VGjSFkkV7g4Vf0u6xYDfDk 6ijifDC5TH1JscstIM0eZGxQS5eKkiHPqHZrui4G0zD9 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy8MUb89l/ZGM9KcuHEfdLvUoQSS9Kc25wINw5BjU5IB/7QJOPJcaTpPmkLw+CU2ZP3YOSjEKdmShSXKQc0VaA= X-Received: by 2002:a37:67c6:: with SMTP id b189mr50291294qkc.331.1558658097764; Thu, 23 May 2019 17:34:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 18:34:46 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Time to retire PC Card (but not CardBus) To: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: A6B196B3B3 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=ainMIMsK X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.99 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.993,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[arch@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-3.01)[ip: (-9.39), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.29), asn: 15169(-2.29), country: US(-0.06)]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2.3.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.976,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 May 2019 00:35:00 -0000 Greetings, Now that a number of 16-bit drivers have been retired, I think it's time to retire 16-bit PC Card / PCMCIA cards. The 32-bit CardBus cards are still alive and kicking, but the need for 16-bit PC Cards has passed. It's time to retire it. I've floated this idea before, and there was broad support for it. I've held off until after FCP 101 deprecation was playing out. We've not pushed that into the tree. This is the logical next step. FreeBSD 12.x will be the last release with 16-bit PC Card support. My plan is to add deprecation notices to the remaining PC Card drivers, merge those back to FreeBSD 11 and 12. Once that's done, I plan on removing the 16-bit support. I have a few minor bug fixes to that which I'll push in before I retire it, and merge those fixes. My plan is to give about a month for the community to discuss this plan before I add the warnings. If there's resistance, we'll go with more formal data collection and deprecation. If there's none, I'll go ahead. This affects the following drivers: an, cmx, fdc, puc, uart, wi, bt3c, ata. Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri May 24 01:48:25 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6407D1592B51 for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 01:48:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADB546DA1B for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 01:48:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 66CD81592B50; Fri, 24 May 2019 01:48:24 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52B131592B4E for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 01:48:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A51626DA1A for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 01:48:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id x4O1mI4U093405; Thu, 23 May 2019 18:48:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id x4O1mINh093404; Thu, 23 May 2019 18:48:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <201905240148.x4O1mINh093404@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: Time to retire PC Card (but not CardBus) In-Reply-To: To: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 18:48:18 -0700 (PDT) CC: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: A51626DA1A X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.98 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.980,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 May 2019 01:48:25 -0000 I must ask that you first retire the lack of a formal deprecation policy and document, you promised this to us over a year ago. I made a gentlemans barter with you on no resistance to lua being merged and on by default in 12, you have failed to hold your end of the barter up. We have now done several deprecation cycles and no document or policy is in place. Thankfully a great deal was learned through FCP 101, but there is always more to learn. > Greetings, > > Now that a number of 16-bit drivers have been retired, I think it's time to > retire 16-bit PC Card / PCMCIA cards. The 32-bit CardBus cards are still > alive and kicking, but the need for 16-bit PC Cards has passed. It's time > to retire it. > > I've floated this idea before, and there was broad support for it. I've > held off until after FCP 101 deprecation was playing out. We've not pushed > that into the tree. This is the logical next step. FreeBSD 12.x will be the > last release with 16-bit PC Card support. > > My plan is to add deprecation notices to the remaining PC Card drivers, > merge those back to FreeBSD 11 and 12. Once that's done, I plan on removing > the 16-bit support. I have a few minor bug fixes to that which I'll push in > before I retire it, and merge those fixes. > > My plan is to give about a month for the community to discuss this plan > before I add the warnings. If there's resistance, we'll go with more formal > data collection and deprecation. If there's none, I'll go ahead. > > This affects the following drivers: an, cmx, fdc, puc, uart, wi, bt3c, ata. fdc, puc, uart, ata? Huh? Or are there PCMCIA stubs in these that need to die? iirc, the an come in a PCI adapter card with a PLX asic on them to bridge them into what kinda looks like a PCI card, would this kill that suppor too? -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri May 24 02:13:45 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 034C31593957 for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 02:13:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4736F6EB02 for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 02:13:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 0441B1593956; Fri, 24 May 2019 02:13:44 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D382A1593955 for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 02:13:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x72d.google.com (mail-qk1-x72d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 609A96EB01 for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 02:13:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x72d.google.com with SMTP id d10so5129981qko.4 for ; Thu, 23 May 2019 19:13:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=sOYrgEC835gQTuBvxfz6eFkMWHWRFkg0g2iaKJCv9DA=; b=HGRzRjl/g31Da2ZQSZv+gzXGwaF7R/4839D5a2bzNik2gexLIUdGxzrV+L4Cmt7uc2 JFz0PuonT6rhDXqbDV3h1DMW0vrEQoGdYfnMQMMajEa0XxNSyWh3ZAa0tkm5VUGBtwAO QJ3IpfPB6covGuIeQ8CU0RrordMvUi3GvDwWmeyvaJg5NR3ZsgoiUhrVuv/O367JkoQH S9x7LsotdV0Yea4luMWuAInzc2cWSrbQhqNhtMlV8zhGHmMm90dGQNRivPk/MPTY1bRd 7VEijEjoFbp3UOWRTxdeI2CMxCiGcfX9PP7pgDBYQZq7a5A9PsT3IVw5NcxuFcUaeB1A g2/g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=sOYrgEC835gQTuBvxfz6eFkMWHWRFkg0g2iaKJCv9DA=; b=oR2fzi+4u92V+V+VzKwVG/aeTjU91nHdb+uoJb3pMrmckTo24RQnBRDfOWuB3R4HSe zh8hn4zBJnbu/mnGbYaSZ+E1O3YTKadp+yzjP3zMp7OYIpY69JRaN38UOJeLvFQs+3CE vHOb2oLTjHfEJkLF9E9dnRLcB4zEQzcs/MCJRoiND9xA4Fta2rpbY+mViHIdybDe2QyV iI7GPrstV8I6EWQ6/iNzzV8ypcSqxp3EZP6nrFgI0aOLsOjxGvjuo14pSzdhrT3tqpKR yYey8OhXFmc7kDkVhisRDYTXncAz2YeuScFzsubQ2FuLVcQB2xRhVLmEtGpIkXsYnaPG xJEA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWOdLY8PXS9htjBi7Fp31yRa00XK5CHXavDAIPRQEjnqJmUDf+I w+q41ZXmtPjH+VgnE3XrStMPDNP+D7Luv+GKDGifLuAP3ew= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyjgRh5YfMDh4dD33zP3ZvMcIXZ4ZKGUEinqFK0zQS1wiW9dk5LXO8q0DcPSsch4V95VdRg9rt+Z0l/HYDAp7A= X-Received: by 2002:a37:6d03:: with SMTP id i3mr80038590qkc.112.1558664022744; Thu, 23 May 2019 19:13:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201905240148.x4O1mINh093404@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> In-Reply-To: <201905240148.x4O1mINh093404@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 20:13:31 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Time to retire PC Card (but not CardBus) To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 609A96EB01 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.97 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.971,0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 May 2019 02:13:45 -0000 On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 7:48 PM Rodney W. Grimes < freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > I must ask that you first retire the lack of a formal > deprecation policy and document, you promised this to > us over a year ago. I made a gentlemans barter with you > on no resistance to lua being merged and on by default > in 12, you have failed to hold your end of the barter up. > > We have now done several deprecation cycles and no document > or policy is in place. > > Thankfully a great deal was learned through FCP 101, but > there is always more to learn. > Sure. But please pick a week to ask me that I've not put an extra 50 hours into the project putting out non-technical fires and am feeling behind... I have a PC Card specific document that I can post that I wrote about the same time as FCP 101. > > Greetings, > > > > Now that a number of 16-bit drivers have been retired, I think it's time > to > > retire 16-bit PC Card / PCMCIA cards. The 32-bit CardBus cards are still > > alive and kicking, but the need for 16-bit PC Cards has passed. It's time > > to retire it. > > > > I've floated this idea before, and there was broad support for it. I've > > held off until after FCP 101 deprecation was playing out. We've not > pushed > > that into the tree. This is the logical next step. FreeBSD 12.x will be > the > > last release with 16-bit PC Card support. > > > > My plan is to add deprecation notices to the remaining PC Card drivers, > > merge those back to FreeBSD 11 and 12. Once that's done, I plan on > removing > > the 16-bit support. I have a few minor bug fixes to that which I'll push > in > > before I retire it, and merge those fixes. > > > > My plan is to give about a month for the community to discuss this plan > > before I add the warnings. If there's resistance, we'll go with more > formal > > data collection and deprecation. If there's none, I'll go ahead. > > > > This affects the following drivers: an, cmx, fdc, puc, uart, wi, bt3c, > ata. > > fdc, puc, uart, ata? Huh? > Or are there PCMCIA stubs in these that need to die? > Just the PC Card attachments to those devices. cmx and bt3c, however, will be removed. > iirc, the an come in a PCI adapter card with a PLX asic on them > to bridge them into what kinda looks like a PCI card, would this > kill that suppor too? wi and an both were like that. an had isa and pci attachments. The isa version was for a PLX chip that made the PCMCIA card just appear on the ISA bus. the driver did minimal PCMCIA power-up in the attachment. There was a late minipci an card. It didn't support anything newer 802.11b, and has no modern crypto (nothing newer than WEP) wi also had similar kludges. it too didn't support anything newer. I'd be inclined to just kill both of these drivers, but am looking for feedback from actual users. Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri May 24 02:52:12 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA0F115946AF for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 02:52:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26D1D6FD3C for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 02:52:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id DBD2515946AC; Fri, 24 May 2019 02:52:11 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C992215946AB for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 02:52:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59C2F6FD39 for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 02:52:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x4O2q3w3042567 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 23 May 2019 19:52:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x4O2q2Kx042566; Thu, 23 May 2019 19:52:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 19:52:02 -0700 From: Steve Kargl To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Warner Losh , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Time to retire PC Card (but not CardBus) Message-ID: <20190524025202.GA42530@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <201905240148.x4O1mINh093404@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201905240148.x4O1mINh093404@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.2 (2019-01-07) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 59C2F6FD39 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.992,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 May 2019 02:52:12 -0000 On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 06:48:18PM -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > I must ask that you first retire the lack of a formal > deprecation policy and document, you promised this to > us over a year ago. I made a gentlemans barter with you > on no resistance to lua being merged and on by default > in 12, you have failed to hold your end of the barter up. > > We have now done several deprecation cycles and no document > or policy is in place. > So what is stopping you from producing the deprecation document, and putting it up with a RFC? -- Steve From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri May 24 03:04:17 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 116411594ECA for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 03:04:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 665DF70830 for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 03:04:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 23D221594EC3; Fri, 24 May 2019 03:04:16 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F40561594EC1 for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 03:04:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5CE507082D for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 03:04:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id x4O349hB093720; Thu, 23 May 2019 20:04:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id x4O349bH093719; Thu, 23 May 2019 20:04:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <201905240304.x4O349bH093719@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: Time to retire PC Card (but not CardBus) In-Reply-To: To: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 20:04:09 -0700 (PDT) CC: "Rodney W. Grimes" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5CE507082D X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.993,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 May 2019 03:04:17 -0000 > On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 7:48 PM Rodney W. Grimes < > freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > > I must ask that you first retire the lack of a formal > > deprecation policy and document, you promised this to > > us over a year ago. I made a gentlemans barter with you > > on no resistance to lua being merged and on by default > > in 12, you have failed to hold your end of the barter up. > > > > We have now done several deprecation cycles and no document > > or policy is in place. > > > > Thankfully a great deal was learned through FCP 101, but > > there is always more to learn. > > > > Sure. But please pick a week to ask me that I've not put an extra 50 hours > into the project putting out non-technical fires and am feeling behind... Your totally in control of this time, I just ask that the order be deprecation policy, even a published draft, then PC card killing. > I have a PC Card specific document that I can post that I wrote about the > same time as FCP 101. > > > > > Greetings, > > > > > > Now that a number of 16-bit drivers have been retired, I think it's time > > to > > > retire 16-bit PC Card / PCMCIA cards. The 32-bit CardBus cards are still > > > alive and kicking, but the need for 16-bit PC Cards has passed. It's time > > > to retire it. > > > > > > I've floated this idea before, and there was broad support for it. I've > > > held off until after FCP 101 deprecation was playing out. We've not > > pushed > > > that into the tree. This is the logical next step. FreeBSD 12.x will be > > the > > > last release with 16-bit PC Card support. > > > > > > My plan is to add deprecation notices to the remaining PC Card drivers, > > > merge those back to FreeBSD 11 and 12. Once that's done, I plan on > > removing > > > the 16-bit support. I have a few minor bug fixes to that which I'll push > > in > > > before I retire it, and merge those fixes. > > > > > > My plan is to give about a month for the community to discuss this plan > > > before I add the warnings. If there's resistance, we'll go with more > > formal > > > data collection and deprecation. If there's none, I'll go ahead. > > > > > > This affects the following drivers: an, cmx, fdc, puc, uart, wi, bt3c, > > ata. > > > > fdc, puc, uart, ata? Huh? > > Or are there PCMCIA stubs in these that need to die? > > > > Just the PC Card attachments to those devices. cmx and bt3c, however, will > be removed. Ok, clarity on that would be useful: This affects the PCMCIA code in the following drivers: an, fdc, puc uart, wi, and complete removal of cmx and bt3c. > > > iirc, the an come in a PCI adapter card with a PLX asic on them > > to bridge them into what kinda looks like a PCI card, would this > > kill that suppor too? > > > wi and an both were like that. Only wi I have is actual wi ISA cards, ancient Hermes, and for some reason I thought that was wl, but not finding that driver, and not finding an ISA card hermes listed in the wi driver. Meh, not important, dead stuff. > an had isa and pci attachments. The isa version was for a PLX chip that > made the PCMCIA card just appear on the ISA bus. the driver did minimal > PCMCIA power-up in the attachment. There was a late minipci an card. It > didn't support anything newer 802.11b, and has no modern crypto (nothing > newer than WEP) > > wi also had similar kludges. it too didn't support anything newer. > > I'd be inclined to just kill both of these drivers, but am looking for > feedback from actual users. I still have the an hardware, both ISA and PCI, but, as before, I shall discount myself from any inclusion in device counts as an aberation rather than a norm. If they do get saved I'll retain the hardware incase testing is needed. > Warner -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri May 24 03:16:38 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07F0E15955BE for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 03:16:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 230A470F10 for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 03:16:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id D067415955B5; Fri, 24 May 2019 03:16:36 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD89A15955B4 for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 03:16:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x729.google.com (mail-qk1-x729.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::729]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5285370F0F for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 03:16:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x729.google.com with SMTP id m18so5255971qki.8 for ; Thu, 23 May 2019 20:16:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=S6gpb2I4TMvWCBmmMILxgaPXZ+inADYd4juRhh01Vkc=; b=TG63tdlt+2Ukt70sTIL2yV2pZIYb2OkO/82E8lOb73MnOSnje62r79iC6F2LPNwh0u FRsNIlY+9DJyGr+z5kDxTRmMKWczvcK5viAgs4cr17QnFL7io9qygdAGLHzcdTTnjWdo 4HI9g6eztzvo9fGcxb+3YCoWEnvYep3/7vlLvTUy7AGNdznd1S4KA/AkejeYX70rRv26 NZc+lVSUPvMutSrsoloZLOa0K3O1hWAKb+J1y4EtrEITnNyY6XF0NCJqCY0BkSIUNn0E 1mLqhm7kjLRmdQwKgdyYX8104Mw67ehZJJSJU5oyQcca7LLckyvk7gR7PgqgJ7OTqAP3 6Yjw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=S6gpb2I4TMvWCBmmMILxgaPXZ+inADYd4juRhh01Vkc=; b=QjJH6NppECb3CFWz0FqPdVQw6JXacKgITFbwnmeiGNO8WUNLpahwKNU6TdrEMTDVIQ 647UP1hKoUVGHtlW9WaOeA0naqIHaipuFye2KiBHwrhm4Ii6oh4p5v72EX6yS8/qjE4A GzJxKQNvWxEgZNUuTA4zsxV41Nwh0H0kdTYWaDH5K1WxEGuHjyW0YF0JlfXf9hxk7xnj 88k1QuZsEdOKInaykUUACzB47L/Emol45w2b5MMduJV17UHoAF5m2Pf3QqSTVWJhRPTH UtalzBoZkKDEh/+tApMz2bnQR8XmZxkA5OvOYsHFHrZZzlAABv+jGQX9tt7rJ9Ltz4XK lVWA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUunMYZE0o7AvTMeA/qCBBEGXoXMPBjQAHEpRfn4WfMsTii3z0v oy3vfKIqKvh9R5TNa/pA88TyE7QBTxrzIzsR19peXbJZ X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxDismZj2zgeRPAEMkr/s1pv3ST8sffOQRtmjQSYUq7ZGJRHzsOsjTxMXc4Ywc9k6hXlfnfChctx+nNHXL4OWY= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:9562:: with SMTP id m31mr62953451qvm.27.1558667795679; Thu, 23 May 2019 20:16:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201905240148.x4O1mINh093404@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> <20190524025202.GA42530@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> In-Reply-To: <20190524025202.GA42530@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 21:16:23 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Time to retire PC Card (but not CardBus) To: Steve Kargl Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5285370F0F X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.992,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 May 2019 03:16:38 -0000 On Thu, May 23, 2019, 8:52 PM Steve Kargl wrote: > On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 06:48:18PM -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > I must ask that you first retire the lack of a formal > > deprecation policy and document, you promised this to > > us over a year ago. I made a gentlemans barter with you > > on no resistance to lua being merged and on by default > > in 12, you have failed to hold your end of the barter up. > > > > We have now done several deprecation cycles and no document > > or policy is in place. > > > > So what is stopping you from producing the deprecation document, > and putting it up with a RFC? > I wrote one already. It needs to be updated. But it's been a really long week... Warner > From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri May 24 22:07:54 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CECB515B64AD for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 22:07:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30BC681954 for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 22:07:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id E509915B64AC; Fri, 24 May 2019 22:07:53 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFE7015B64AB for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 22:07:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from slim.berklix.org (slim.berklix.org [94.185.90.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "slim.berklix.org", Issuer "slim.berklix.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A09881953 for ; Fri, 24 May 2019 22:07:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p2E52CF95.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [46.82.207.149]) (authenticated bits=128) by slim.berklix.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x4OM7afg037999 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 25 May 2019 00:07:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id x4OM7Z4t051952; Sat, 25 May 2019 00:07:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id x4OM7HHi083229; Sat, 25 May 2019 00:07:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Message-Id: <201905242207.x4OM7HHi083229@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Warner Losh cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Time to retire PC Card (but not CardBus) From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com/jhs http://stolenvotes.uk User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-From: http://www.berklix.org/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message "Thu, 23 May 2019 18:34:46 -0600." Date: Sat, 25 May 2019 00:07:17 +0200 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5A09881953 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.68 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[slim.berklix.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:33824, ipnet:94.185.88.0/22, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[149.207.82.46.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.63)[-0.633,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.70)[0.698,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.41)[-0.407,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[berklix.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[68.90.185.94.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.13)[ip: (0.49), ipnet: 94.185.88.0/22(0.24), asn: 33824(-0.06), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 May 2019 22:07:55 -0000 Hi, Reference: > From: Warner Losh > Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 18:34:46 -0600 Warner Losh wrote: > Greetings, > > Now that a number of 16-bit drivers have been retired, I think it's time to > retire 16-bit PC Card / PCMCIA cards. The 32-bit CardBus cards are still > alive and kicking, but the need for 16-bit PC Cards has passed. It's time > to retire it. > > I've floated this idea before, and there was broad support for it. I've > held off until after FCP 101 deprecation was playing out. We've not pushed > that into the tree. This is the logical next step. FreeBSD 12.x will be the > last release with 16-bit PC Card support. > > My plan is to add deprecation notices to the remaining PC Card drivers, > merge those back to FreeBSD 11 and 12. Once that's done, I plan on removing > the 16-bit support. I have a few minor bug fixes to that which I'll push in > before I retire it, and merge those fixes. > > My plan is to give about a month for the community to discuss this plan Which community, which lists ? announce@ maybe ? Some sysadmins dont have time to read lists developers use, but they provide freebsd in the real world. I've met busy sysadmins who have little time for any mail lists, maybe just for mutiple OS's versions of RELNOTES & announce@. > before I add the warnings. If there's resistance, we'll go with more formal > data collection and deprecation. If there's none, I'll go ahead. Purges always scare, cutting off our tails, wondering how many we loose & don't hear from Versus how much easier it might make development for others. > This affects the following drivers: an, cmx, fdc, puc, uart, wi, bt3c, ata. > > Warner Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, Consultant Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich Aachen Kent Brexit ref. stole votes from 700,000 Brits in EU; 1.9 M young, more remainers had no vote; 1.3 M old, mostly leavers now dead. Lies part paid by illegal foreign funds. In-sufficient fines & control. http://stolenvotes.uk From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat May 25 16:20:00 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E08D015AFFFA for ; Sat, 25 May 2019 16:19:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from AWilcox@Wilcox-Tech.com) Received: from mail.wilcox-tech.com (mail.wilcox-tech.com [45.32.83.9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.wilcox-tech.com", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35588760D4 for ; Sat, 25 May 2019 16:19:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from AWilcox@Wilcox-Tech.com) Received: (qmail 20753 invoked from network); 25 May 2019 16:13:14 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO ?IPv6:2600:1702:2a80:1b90::45?) (awilcox@wilcox-tech.com@127.0.0.1) by localhost with ESMTPA; 25 May 2019 16:13:14 -0000 Subject: Re: Time to retire PC Card (but not CardBus) To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: <201905242207.x4OM7HHi083229@fire.js.berklix.net> From: "A. Wilcox" Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Message-ID: Date: Sat, 25 May 2019 11:13:11 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux ppc64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <201905242207.x4OM7HHi083229@fire.js.berklix.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="BaHgiWCyW6HOh1bX5QKusdlFfm2OTffdG" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 35588760D4 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.98 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.985,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 May 2019 16:20:00 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --BaHgiWCyW6HOh1bX5QKusdlFfm2OTffdG Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="r8U1ZuHabem7gMWYXD5hUq8LawXnx8KKE"; protected-headers="v1" From: "A. Wilcox" To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: Time to retire PC Card (but not CardBus) References: <201905242207.x4OM7HHi083229@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: <201905242207.x4OM7HHi083229@fire.js.berklix.net> --r8U1ZuHabem7gMWYXD5hUq8LawXnx8KKE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 05/24/19 17:07, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Warner Losh wrote: >> This is the logical next step. FreeBSD 12.x will be the >> last release with 16-bit PC Card support. >> >> My plan is to add deprecation notices to the remaining PC Card drivers= , >> merge those back to FreeBSD 11 and 12. Once that's done, I plan on rem= oving >> the 16-bit support. I have a few minor bug fixes to that which I'll pu= sh in >> before I retire it, and merge those fixes. >> >> My plan is to give about a month for the community to discuss this pla= n >> before I add the warnings. If there's resistance, we'll go with more f= ormal >> data collection and deprecation. If there's none, I'll go ahead. >=20 > Purges always scare, cutting off our tails, wondering how many we > loose & don't hear from Versus how much easier it might make > development for others. > Isn't the "usual" approach that the *next* release is the last one with $thing_we_dont_like_anymore? For instance, FCP-101 was done when 12 was CURRENT, and now 12 is the last one usable on many of my i386. This would be the rest. I mean, that's fine and all, because I haven't even run FreeBSD on i386 since people made fun of me on the mailing list for the crime of still owning a Pentium II. Actually, that's a good point - I'm out. --arw --=20 A. Wilcox (awilfox) Open-source programmer (C, C++, Python) https://code.foxkit.us/u/awilfox/ --r8U1ZuHabem7gMWYXD5hUq8LawXnx8KKE-- --BaHgiWCyW6HOh1bX5QKusdlFfm2OTffdG Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEjNyWOYPU1SaTSMHHyynLUZIrnRQFAlzpaZoACgkQyynLUZIr nRRMOA/9GNQgsy/FqOMaZaYBhTy6lkg8IVFR89wzcp9elxjyuPBeEzyDnR4puO42 mGL4+uh0bMxHIb6+hHfrpfuJfu6Z1idF+MBIhXSOtkov1bobjooPwxGkUoSSvaOZ D2me0byMF2RcA+rx2lANKLCGPS6qB0h6DGP1d3r2ezZApZgk0o1nt4QV4KG6/Vyh I2E3sfFdjCpSdTwuISlHN/hd1bH5SHtRDbG5qsugf3o9f8WDsQgXTNo9E8V5VBw0 5vrPSEt9x/4M8AHecZp6ryIK1LZV6GJHwgLp7EqndeczHnJd5ebk30HSeYfKj1Ks 1lCd+sVchw7kenrBHw/4w+OXM5hH4EcQs//oLcAdv/XKZniRd8afV5HMnKxEhScT uTx3rx8tJU03yV8LGA9kadHjhtVt6HJYdObmRE4RpfVWNrHyNIOVFg4MxVyMm+mR Oce8p6lYWi2Xgb8By711vapcq1Fc+lXjtohAsXPXOfkmhHljJ0zvA+5E61NMIBjc Ngs1qnqPL3qGrJMS2OX1h1Ip3E4lYQ2Px1BWy1ygcKV6tkdtsa1pjdjWD9jsMgxB TuKsUer2mdk38ydh4Mdm49aJca9zSQMxYHPInDwP24eAibn+GvFHBZI/E4XoaSUN 1IS9F8Cu3jrAO6Lmns7Of8q3jO1avUhQs42waVo4nnAhUwzOvHA= =A2s4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BaHgiWCyW6HOh1bX5QKusdlFfm2OTffdG--