From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Oct 22 15:07:53 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3165A15D050 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2019 15:07:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x732.google.com (mail-qk1-x732.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::732]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46yH1h1wcZz3Nqk for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2019 15:07:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x732.google.com with SMTP id q70so8998773qke.12 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2019 08:07:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=dhhW7hbZevKH+n0sCBVey7YucwrjoJcbKv3u1VXRLm8=; b=PtAA3keXgwa1eeLoFpJw19imJb8+mqJMHk4Gc12828TE1xIIj7wVVJGLPRpaIaH8h4 DwbwpGvZgTWOCKS+u7qxrEhA9ELM2Qas6MjTAb+DzPemjrk8nfrJozz7k0bKmjja5YRl OflUkt/W+mADi650xfxLQvqEDmOHbZOvKje1mbduJvBpSXrGZxt7ibGqT2GqBYFtlK8j eCLkvAQ8fpAwLL3W0Dzp/fgNerBcFc2HAHvBL24T/XwIH6NiwFi8EUa/OmX0un5ZKx8o Z5On6vb/MrYl7wwVzQeSLBe8b00zPX6XPRN0T5Rv4Nj+mXnESunRFN7QLtdZQqtPlzy+ uHzg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dhhW7hbZevKH+n0sCBVey7YucwrjoJcbKv3u1VXRLm8=; b=BKI5zRwuZrFmsL244zFBpIHxsE//gP2olAQ35dqTsMWiG44bDjT33GY6yEB/ocARfT koDF8bhklFcn84GeVHdqYhVsMu7J7GcONd01w+D5C3DdSgbq8e6/HYk3J/TCEsbNRd4F pi0yfBcbA8K5KgJTShRSHnwZnAKgfKHzi+Frp16zSXeRAMyIQVYcQvfaPPe8Xbo3wE78 2iOvyHPiAJ/hV62DAEWLChrXJDxXu9ii6oIGWnVmGFPGxmaSqV7GErvymRMtKJRTGoMQ P5OF5pd8xegnI/hQGqAxzQci/e7RtN6z3EaGZzF3ZLAgXE0Gghm5DDlQRUnCdmI4kkPY kB3A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXZBU8he71NLdWJc9HKMeRTlkKJVWu/6bTsggEwlEUhGyDuI5Pi iosMOG3BPEfJFyzAC2a3va5W3zf3N1wTi4DThpW3IA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxknpC4/OyhSjJr3Yydtx4U5AEKcst4kfBMqf3yeiMsgx2CoSs9nzGQiibtIKQJzbncuvkt1yGiv8d0WjDM4oM= X-Received: by 2002:a37:de0c:: with SMTP id h12mr3349292qkj.495.1571756870657; Tue, 22 Oct 2019 08:07:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1818196815.3441463.1570703722086.JavaMail.yahoo@jws700103.mail.ssk.yahoo.co.jp> In-Reply-To: <1818196815.3441463.1570703722086.JavaMail.yahoo@jws700103.mail.ssk.yahoo.co.jp> From: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 09:07:39 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: firm date: armv5 support removal scheduled for 2019-12-31 To: Mori Hiroki Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arm@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 46yH1h1wcZz3Nqk X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=PtAA3keX; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::732) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.80 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2.3.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.co.jp]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(-2.80)[ip: (-9.44), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.43), asn: 15169(-2.07), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 15:07:53 -0000 On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 4:35 AM Mori Hiroki wrote: > Hi > > I have very angry. Because of this. > > One is Maverl soc is not right performance on FreeBSD now. > > Maverl FreeBSD is 10-30 times slow from Linux. > > I think armv5t support is not complete on FreeBSD. > > You say armv5t pmap have bug. But my RT1310(armv5t) work well half of year. > > I try ldd on armv5t one month ago. That is support for armv4 because of > > that don't know armv4t instruction by default. > Hi Mori-san, I get your love of the old hardware. However, we can't support the full range of old hardware at this time. We don't have enough people actively working on it. We have dozens of people complaining that they can't install on old hardware that we used to support because things have decayed. I think it's really awesome you've gotten the RT1310 working well. I've never been able to get mine going, despite spending several days on it over the last year or two. I've been unable to get my *Plug boards working well. They may work fine to boot, but will often panic if I have to fsck because that device doesn't support unaligned I/O. We have trouble enough with the more modern stuff... Trying to also support this really old stuff just drains resources from the project. Warner > Hiroki Mori > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Warner Losh > > To: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" ; " > freebsd-arm@freebsd.org" > > Cc: > > Date: 2019/10/10, Thu 06:40 > > Subject: firm date: armv5 support removal scheduled for 2019-12-31 > > > >G reetings, > > > > There's been much talk of removing armv5 support from FreeBSD in FreeBSD > > 13. This talk has been ongoing since before 12 was branched among the key > > arm developers. The compromise for the FreeBSD 12 was to have one final > > FreeBSD armv5 release for a few straggling users that needed (or think > they > > needed) this release and it would be removed before FreeBSD 13. > > > > The reason to remove this is due to the increased burden armv5 has > > presented on the system. We have a separate pmap for v5 which has known > or > > suspected bugs relating to unaligned I/O. No developers have the armv5 > > boards in service anymore. They have ceased being relevant to FreeBSD's > > success with the plethera of armv7 boards that are on the market. No new > > armv5 boards have been made in a long time. The FreeBSD project hasn't > > produce armv5 binaries for 12.x at all (the binaries produced earlier > could > > not have possibly booted, though the userland binaries worked if you > could > > otherwise install the system). Finally, llvm's lld doesn't support > > armv5. > > It would ease integration if we didn't have to worry about a fallback for > > armv5. It would be one fewer dependency on the old binutils toolchain in > > the tree. > > > > So, taking all these things together, the time has come to schedule > removal > > of armv5 support from FreeBSD. The end of the year seems like a good date > > to select for planning this removal, getting whatever notices should be > put > > into place and warning people about the next release in the most formal > way > > possible (more informal warnings have been going on for over a year, > > starting with armv4 support removal in 12). > > > > I'm posting this now to gather feedback and, if necessary, create a > > checklist of things to do before removal. > > > > Warner > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-arm@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arm > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arm-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Oct 24 14:07:19 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7755E16DE6C for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 14:07:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-f51.google.com (mail-io1-f51.google.com [209.85.166.51]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46zTZt4m6sz3JY1; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 14:07:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-f51.google.com with SMTP id h9so1830462ioh.2; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 07:07:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=CcHAQFyquYZIihuu6Ogswkg+Sz5vo9sGKxp0mygnRgk=; b=i1l9wJhOM75qvFGuP5EgS63r+ntbhtvWjMOetSVFVU9lUz2bq4GdDuLTbMgkCF9v24 OOYa3xynZ+/zUCMG9Ra8LPq+7dP+e0rzHduSJgKoSDO0nl3pdQ1nIG+S5lWP0axWU8Xl kMe/Str3Z2qFh9uncPyGmh6bWnjRJXW8nRYtS8cdVRSalYQv4SwM1vXCkGzW22zfWjpR ZsBCGeOhPMo+/UsW5xAsgz41gxkkUM1Zu53fkpu4PIjOVrljOB7SF6tjg99jszycn7Ex WXw6DZ6/JEiPsuGXuainEnWjNULXU1bL8JlqBkb75UX+wDRp4yCoB4gDWijKRCfYNeHB tYAg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWtvK+bqWTn0Lt7RAw0suSozy4m/i+9Qr9ief7BmSTsnZXYvIaK odt+LfEkIHbuLqeON/VMPT7dkROh821jPUwibZl4HA0z X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwcW4nW+EOCcg+E9KGns8yavaU4N/BTKEnSzImWry6TeyV/TGDjCclOmN3TaP4RRicFpfcq/zXWuItzhJc8K4I= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:6418:: with SMTP id t24mr9089804iog.185.1571926036887; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 07:07:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201910060322.x963Mwo1065732@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> <89501a69-ea37-7016-5ccb-286ff65b2e2a@FreeBSD.org> <18250.1570457337@critter.freebsd.dk> In-Reply-To: From: Ed Maste Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 08:33:57 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: New CPUTYPE default for i386 port To: Julian Elischer Cc: Warner Losh , Poul-Henning Kamp , "Rodney W. Grimes" , Lev Serebryakov , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 46zTZt4m6sz3JY1 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of carpeddiem@gmail.com designates 209.85.166.51 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=carpeddiem@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.34 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17:c]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[51.166.85.209.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.34)[ip: (-6.35), ipnet: 209.85.128.0/17(-3.23), asn: 15169(-2.06), country: US(-0.05)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[51.166.85.209.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 14:07:19 -0000 On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 at 14:10, Julian Elischer wrote: > > SO we'd be "demoting" [i586 and below] to the same situation as the ARM64 port > > where one has to build it yourself. This is not the case, we produce arm64 install images and have for quite some time - since FreeBSD 11.0, there's no need to build it yourself. We don't yet have FreeBSD-update builds for arm64 but that will be addressed one way or another. If folks do want to ensure i586 continues to work (and i486 continues to sort-of work) in FreeBSD 13 we need to make sure that there's CI coverage for these. I'm happy to host physical devices in the hardware CI lab for this purpose if we want to test on real hardware, but perhaps QEMU is sufficient. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Oct 24 16:47:15 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ACA317175C for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 16:47:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x836.google.com (mail-qt1-x836.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::836]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46zY7Q10RQz40kF for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 16:47:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x836.google.com with SMTP id z22so18306813qtq.11 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 09:47:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=+zSQajhKhPuWZ7FRbu8bTbIoNnjv0UY2X0k0se49UxQ=; b=GT0Oc/M+bXfzhHLdgQQHyMAa4kvpf92sUWqHksK2pemuCm68kkyYQfkItjbYSK3yOt gE736FxOwQoxX/E0kJ2dpdIgbyqqH77hOvSd5gIMt4OuzmawryNXZauTjroS6sZkDCoL sCCqKBfZLG/Bp2yj9bUv26TePvsJBpWcgqcgLrbeCFy21ZHXAzJxfX5qAjA0EtsYf3p0 zbs2ApvkZG4pJW4UCgBKbFvkALrjL4OrGEz0xiTiCgWW/auGEiLaPebdN8408YofXTGI 2xaWhJDnqnvgo09QnJVEkOp4cFpyvDx7+GizOXMgvwa0iXx5YbHb5iXeoHabSR/pUmdb YaEQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=+zSQajhKhPuWZ7FRbu8bTbIoNnjv0UY2X0k0se49UxQ=; b=jr7evryP9AIQCTctyIqvNBlzfN2DN5iR79p3xrzvs7bAS4kWVe8b9itNZmpxxPQ1pD HZmfxrbZjn3xe71qRbJ9arg+dJOrrnZzMZ1H/sQD5wJ8eVyLTk8yYnVC6ktGNs53ByVU FFGN3coNDaEfJiQFzVLtemd31QdDa+rZQX4L7LBy+gSXakoau+jymdASPqrF43i9RmVa D78RNmucJXnkiEsFHrXPKLhU5cCsqENh8kvCOeEB6+PJDJscnAwDmQarN26OVxnN0wBw oju7sCOlAupuuXbo9og78/bcz7cFn44+j3q21mbb6HfCyiR7oQ2fOHOatUd8DDHhwvH0 DbBw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV8/I8WTIS4SqGq8c6IsmN8zRGWMfAXxSgQ3Y3+ueBSd2Jl6EZU ssWkqcVlUdRvWS/P28C7kTiT6iLo4/iTBK8KqoemNw12bZM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz7I39PGEQ+jKxEIK9GQXWvfetbi9HuUBRTZHjOrpfnhNUYbf50wBqk/+inmSJ2Efd2Gq2phgKdodENhK1gt+k= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:95ca:: with SMTP id t10mr9427816qvt.22.1571935632369; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 09:47:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 10:47:01 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Heads up: Bumping Minimum build version to 11. To: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 46zY7Q10RQz40kF X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=GT0Oc/M+; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::836) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.75 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[6.3.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(-2.75)[ip: (-9.24), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.41), asn: 15169(-2.06), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 16:47:15 -0000 Greetings, I'm in the process of bumping the minimum version of FreeBSD needed to build from 10.3 to 11.x (still working on the x bit). There's other issues with 11, but those are being addressed separately. 10.x can't built current because it's C++ compiler is too old. There's no easy way to fix this because it can't build llvm w/o a lot of hacks, which aren't productive. Upstream has moved away from using constructs that are supported by clang 3.4.1 / g++ 2.4.1, and our policy is to not try when that's happened as we will diverge from upstream for a feature that gives very little benefit to our users. To that end, I plan on bumping the minimum version needed to build -current to 11.0 (assuming that the tests are successful). I also plan on removing / retiring all the workarounds for pre 11 build systems, as is our normal custom. While technically the project minimum is only the tip of -stable, we can relax this through the efforts of those wishing it to work. Historically we've done several major revisions back due to various needs of our users, though with clang that's becoming more difficult (hence the need to bump the minimum up to 11). This is just a heads up that we're changing things to reflect the new realities on the ground so others don't hit build errors later in the build process. Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Oct 24 16:53:09 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFA1C171E4D for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 16:53:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46zYGD6Y6hz42hh for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 16:53:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kib.kiev.ua (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x9OGr0jr008619 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 24 Oct 2019 19:53:03 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua x9OGr0jr008619 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x9OGr0oU008618; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 19:53:00 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 19:52:59 +0300 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Warner Losh Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Heads up: Bumping Minimum build version to 11. Message-ID: <20191024165259.GY73312@kib.kiev.ua> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.2 (2019-09-21) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FROM, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on tom.home X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 46zYGD6Y6hz42hh X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=softfail (mx1.freebsd.org: 2001:470:d5e7:1::1 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of kostikbel@gmail.com) smtp.mailfrom=kostikbel@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.00 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_SPF_SOFTFAIL(0.00)[~all:c]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-2.76), ipnet: 2001:470::/32(-4.60), asn: 6939(-3.45), country: US(-0.05)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6939, ipnet:2001:470::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[gmail.com : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 16:53:09 -0000 On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 10:47:01AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > Greetings, > > I'm in the process of bumping the minimum version of FreeBSD needed to > build from 10.3 to 11.x (still working on the x bit). There's other issues > with 11, but those are being addressed separately. > > 10.x can't built current because it's C++ compiler is too old. There's no > easy way to fix this because it can't build llvm w/o a lot of hacks, which > aren't productive. Upstream has moved away from using constructs that are > supported by clang 3.4.1 / g++ 2.4.1, and our policy is to not try when > that's happened as we will diverge from upstream for a feature that gives > very little benefit to our users. > > To that end, I plan on bumping the minimum version needed to build -current > to 11.0 (assuming that the tests are successful). I also plan on removing / > retiring all the workarounds for pre 11 build systems, as is our normal > custom. While technically the project minimum is only the tip of -stable, > we can relax this through the efforts of those wishing it to work. > Historically we've done several major revisions back due to various needs > of our users, though with clang that's becoming more difficult (hence the > need to bump the minimum up to 11). > > This is just a heads up that we're changing things to reflect the new > realities on the ground so others don't hit build errors later in the build > process. HEAD on stable/11 is not buildable anyway, due to the lack of the private lib infrastructure. I believe we only supported buiild of HEAD on latest stable branch, and there you needed a latest release or post-release stable.