From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Nov 26 09:17:44 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C55DB1AF96B for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:17:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47MdbW67Wsz4Zw7 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:17:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id xAQ9HeDI001915; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 01:17:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id xAQ9Hcf1001914; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 01:17:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <201911260917.xAQ9Hcf1001914@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: Killing Giant for 13 In-Reply-To: To: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 01:17:38 -0800 (PST) CC: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47MdbW67Wsz4Zw7 X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net has no SPF policy when checking 69.59.192.140) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.78 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dnsmgr.net]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.47)[0.465,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.38)[0.378,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13868, ipnet:69.59.192.0/19, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.04)[ip: (0.14), ipnet: 69.59.192.0/19(0.07), asn: 13868(0.03), country: US(-0.05)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:17:44 -0000 > I'd like to kill Giant in 13 and schedule a firm removal date. > > The issues are (a) old drivers that aren't MP safe (b) some console / ATKBD > interactions (c) newbus and (d) a few stays that haven't been characterized. > > (a) should be deleted or updated before the deadline > (b) should be fixed by $SOMEONE[tm] > (c) there's some work underway to refine the locking protocols to allow one > to not have Giant held (there's real questions about how effective it is > when things sleep or contend) > (d) I'm researching. > > Would there be support for setting a firm deadline for Giant removal of > around June 2020? This would be months ahead of a speculative 13.0 timeline > (Earliest would be December 2020, latest would be maybe October 2021, the > exact details aren't super relevant for a June target date). > > This is a preliminary inquiry to get a feel for support for this option and > to gather additional issues and requirements. Comments? I see one reply to this, yet am seeing commits killing drivers, that at least on surface appear to be not so old, and possibly relevant. Though I have no objectionion to the removal of GIANT, I do have objection to what appears to be execuction before research and discussion, especially as I believe the item would of be under (d) above, as I do not consider a driver that came into the tree at 10.0 "OLD". -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Nov 26 12:55:26 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 726E71B55DA for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 12:55:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@karels.net) Received: from mail.karels.net (mail.karels.net [216.160.39.52]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47MkQj5mwwz3JM2 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 12:55:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@karels.net) Received: from mail.karels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.karels.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id xAQCtMfb061390; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 06:55:22 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from mike@karels.net) Message-Id: <201911261255.xAQCtMfb061390@mail.karels.net> To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: Warner Losh , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" From: Mike Karels Reply-to: mike@karels.net Subject: Re: Killing Giant for 13 In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 26 Nov 2019 01:17:38 -0800. <201911260917.xAQ9Hcf1001914@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <61388.1574772922.1@mail.karels.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 06:55:22 -0600 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47MkQj5mwwz3JM2 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mike@karels.net designates 216.160.39.52 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mike@karels.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.19 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[mike@karels.net]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:216.160.39.52:c]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[karels.net]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(-1.99)[ip: (-6.63), ipnet: 216.160.0.0/15(-3.27), asn: 209(0.03), country: US(-0.05)]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:209, ipnet:216.160.0.0/15, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 12:55:26 -0000 Responding both to Warner's original message and to Rod: > > I'd like to kill Giant in 13 and schedule a firm removal date. > > = > > The issues are (a) old drivers that aren't MP safe (b) some console / = ATKBD > > interactions (c) newbus and (d) a few stays that haven't been characte= rized. > > = > > (a) should be deleted or updated before the deadline > > (b) should be fixed by $SOMEONE[tm] > > (c) there's some work underway to refine the locking protocols to allo= w one > > to not have Giant held (there's real questions about how effective it = is > > when things sleep or contend) > > (d) I'm researching. > > = > > Would there be support for setting a firm deadline for Giant removal o= f > > around June 2020? This would be months ahead of a speculative 13.0 tim= eline > > (Earliest would be December 2020, latest would be maybe October 2021,= the > > exact details aren't super relevant for a June target date). > > = > > This is a preliminary inquiry to get a feel for support for this optio= n and > > to gather additional issues and requirements. Comments? I think we really need to get rid of Giant. It was a useful transition measure, but the transition to SMP should be long since over. +1 on Warner's proposal. > I see one reply to this, yet am seeing commits killing drivers, that > at least on surface appear to be not so old, and possibly relevant. > Though I have no objectionion to the removal of GIANT, I do have objecti= on > to what appears to be execuction before research and discussion, especia= lly > as I believe the item would of be under (d) above, as I do not consider > a driver that came into the tree at 10.0 "OLD". Although Warner used the word "old", that would not be the reason for dropping drivers that use Giant. The reason is that they are not MP safe. If no one will upgrade them, it doesn't matter when they were introduced. I think the project needs to work to reduce technical debt, and I applaud Warner for tackling this. Mike From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Nov 26 16:55:22 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 173691BB94C for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 16:55:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaduk@mit.edu) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47MqlX3yNhz427Z; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 16:55:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaduk@mit.edu) Received: from mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id xAQGtFYM031616 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 26 Nov 2019 11:55:18 -0500 Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 08:55:14 -0800 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: John Baldwin Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: CFT: Open Crypto Framework Changes: Round 1 Message-ID: <20191126165514.GX32847@mit.edu> References: <921919dd-6291-61af-2dc6-768bcdbd5cff@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <921919dd-6291-61af-2dc6-768bcdbd5cff@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47MqlX3yNhz427Z X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kaduk@mit.edu designates 18.9.28.11 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kaduk@mit.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.36 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:18.9.28.0/24]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[mit.edu]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(-2.86)[ip: (-9.59), ipnet: 18.9.0.0/16(-4.66), asn: 3(0.01), country: US(-0.05)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[11.28.9.18.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:3, ipnet:18.9.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 16:55:22 -0000 On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 11:40:48AM -0800, John Baldwin wrote: > > Some of these drivers had some dubious behavior (e.g. trying to carry > over IVs across requests within a session), though they may have worked > for at least some IPsec use cases before. I have a sneaking suspicion that this behavior (while dubious) is enshrined in some protocol/cipher specifications. I will try to ask around and find examples... -Ben From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Nov 26 18:21:39 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B6981BE071 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 18:21:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47Msg65N6Tz4742 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 18:21:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com with SMTP id i3so7693241qvv.7 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:21:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=XL3xOCiqfmZLu0LAv5g5Yl3KYy/Uw88e0I+rIN2rBNE=; b=DeBJQl3rfjKIqul9BLGNpvzHDSy0yRuFQuI59UgvqGrl4KLHC8dUYQs6HoA/ncZymv kWktEONnPyfVUuaeGlxuP7VdAR1zJHklq2NI+5DmCgvCG1Su0fRHp216aK8J1k1lJUZq /KC2r+l8yCxa/MreggLCeQ2ERjvK36K12dZBe3ql2SG7hzIpnc3bjVOlsBcyT4kw5w9e Pjl0kHaMkw2ffGW15JTKI32kvdCyoUyt4i8WWE+kXIPVHwbbWFW5GZMkFFJsL+8NZoLd z0kvA/DmP269CwPmvH6gtHsBqxUNnxMD4mgL0m/SRQotSi7qeumd1uBEKCS2a7mhrEEU 4UJw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=XL3xOCiqfmZLu0LAv5g5Yl3KYy/Uw88e0I+rIN2rBNE=; b=XZJoHIpwffxJEX9vweIikGwODt+uU6ct1MM1+NiQ2rhyUo0j0bMYbaeHV++5O843RH kBwp23nJ+NWNGSU8TjcxaRwTXHwTeRf+Iuzpkg1ccCuQkqBbEVx5ZfHuYoc771A9wHRq VhI7El1SXbTiUO64DhPEP+NZdRzU5Ufa6eJrZBE2lNVTgR4HJI1B3ruZMx4NpVbsUa55 lnMhFjWiOSUsjjq96vl+DfCp5hKmYgSJLHPzszeaOXDzxZ/OcABkGDFQpK1I3seYCg7j asfodd9mNfzMIA5aomJF3ztEtCcAzvbG2Dlp2kCLpQ1wIu2xkOGpfrWkYFt2j4OWPgCF x2KQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWglgfVPoCSVVKR2qke/wucB9obC9KgIBbT/wRzKs65Ss6Pv/DT ugpoUwvQTtcRKTUvbvPZdXwH75LUbe7GMOptvBz1Vw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzI7AOucn/CUB5tMX9wHMXqCnWLLiuPY667+c4b76TEO7qKjC3gZM77YClYmgWc8yPv/C5EPqn2olCnUMwE7R8= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:c125:: with SMTP id f34mr22882732qvh.22.1574792491494; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:21:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201911260917.xAQ9Hcf1001914@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> In-Reply-To: <201911260917.xAQ9Hcf1001914@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 11:21:20 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Killing Giant for 13 To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47Msg65N6Tz4742 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=DeBJQl3r; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2a) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.86 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(-0.86)[ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.27), asn: 15169(-1.95), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 18:21:39 -0000 On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 2:17 AM Rodney W. Grimes < freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > I'd like to kill Giant in 13 and schedule a firm removal date. > > > > The issues are (a) old drivers that aren't MP safe (b) some console / > ATKBD > > interactions (c) newbus and (d) a few stays that haven't been > characterized. > > > > (a) should be deleted or updated before the deadline > > (b) should be fixed by $SOMEONE[tm] > > (c) there's some work underway to refine the locking protocols to allow > one > > to not have Giant held (there's real questions about how effective it is > > when things sleep or contend) > > (d) I'm researching. > > > > Would there be support for setting a firm deadline for Giant removal of > > around June 2020? This would be months ahead of a speculative 13.0 > timeline > > (Earliest would be December 2020, latest would be maybe October 2021, > the > > exact details aren't super relevant for a June target date). > > > > This is a preliminary inquiry to get a feel for support for this option > and > > to gather additional issues and requirements. Comments? > > I see one reply to this, yet am seeing commits killing drivers, that > at least on surface appear to be not so old, and possibly relevant. > > Though I have no objectionion to the removal of GIANT, I do have objection > to what appears to be execuction before research and discussion, especially > as I believe the item would of be under (d) above, as I do not consider > a driver that came into the tree at 10.0 "OLD". > If we drop Giant, we can't support Giant locked drivers. Giant is a funky lock designed to be a virtual splhigh for the driver while holding it (so only one thread can be executing with Giant, but if that thread sleeps, Giant is dropped unlike every other lock in the system). Sometimes converting code to a normal mutex just works, other times not. It's one reason all drivers haven't been converted. It's also a big wart on our system because it is so "special" that people looking at Giant locked code tend to think of it as a mutex rather than as a SPL and make mistakes. However, the hpt27xx driver turns out not to be Giant locked on versions of FreeBSD >= 10. So it's off the list. Scott has backed that out just now. Even so, there's little evidence of its use in the wild, so it's not a top-tier driver... But this is an iterative process, and sometimes mistakes are made. As an open source project, though, people can look at the code to double check the analysis if there's an interest in the driver. People can help by looking at things on the list to see what the efforts would be to convert the drivers. The more eyes we have the better. But if we can find no-one to test the fixed driver on actual hardware, it's been our tradition to commit the locked driver (which may be broken) and then remove the driver. The idea has been that if someone shows up with hardware and tests it, we can easily reinstate it to the tree. So far, though, none of the drivers John Baldwin locked checked in and then removed because nobody has time to test it had anybody showing up with test results after the fact... The bottom line remains, though, that no matter when a driver arrived in the tree, if it's Giant locked and we remove Giant, it's going to go. There's been a 20 year, almost, transition period allowed... We're well past the time to complete the plan... Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Nov 26 18:36:08 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA6761BE514 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 18:36:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@grem.de) Received: from mail.evolve.de (mail.evolve.de [213.239.217.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.evolve.de", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47Mszq1d8Cz47fM for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 18:36:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@grem.de) Received: by mail.evolve.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id aa1315bb; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 18:35:58 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=grem.de; h=date:from:to:cc :subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=20180501; bh=Yn3uJsg+ 40gm03Gs23osJm0F8Bc=; b=mX5gNyXrxeHn1ikVRhnSROW7uWzvAhdk7uABkpyn ZYgvJeODyDYEpt9CB6eLzrTn5lbTd54RRNd6npsxALrWU0f7OITpcaxco5bhB73o JscwAQOnA8Dls4YV4sOw1NgZQXx7PWYOFXx5I9bLpDjb69xnmTUYDMmcIQH3XXNJ aWFE1KoXI1FQtyUxWSFIw/Lzy0vZ4nf7V6Eh3BWM1cFYxfe4bvpob/SCoiMRBJYF +ihz9AXUqX8HxC24i0jYUR/kjFHeYEXB9Bfd7cfO9AUexePLzrWGqdq2ZXNDx7T9 /rrauUDT0mp+P1BubvdEv2M+FzR6OVReTUhoby66CJEcrQ== DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=grem.de; h=date:from:to:cc :subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=20180501; b=MV OdV0dp3jhl9mQ34IUlkd6o7FkJzMQSqX4SamDLKzjvC5PgvGfaZBOPjKml9/UFXL TMwPS20XWWfVp/l8Y9w6EjOaoFcNiMjaLhA4kDPvycMNATcbrfB9Rbf9WEXuJEvM Ne7wQ2tiQBpnJaeUUtLHfOS2kLki37vQIFHbmEKICpRjqJk+ldbtitXgkJM8FVye znzqTM/ttVUxWDf18ujDLZZQnCQbr+zecQv65rdaLDf2oM4M/3wPeExOS1bik3eR XUYNGLb0zgUmKZ5ZiDjrWjIRNJM2Mql24zdGlk03vuqaSfh9kLy0bUJcU8qafEgj OW4NCjtGMcjoeey1R2Yg== Received: by mail.evolve.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id f2c67abc TLS version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 18:35:57 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 19:35:55 +0100 From: Michael Gmelin To: Warner Losh Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Killing Giant for 13 Message-ID: <20191126193555.047a63cf@bsd64.grem.de> In-Reply-To: References: <201911260917.xAQ9Hcf1001914@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd11.2) X-Face: $wrgCtfdVw_H9WAY?S&9+/F"!41z'L$uo*WzT8miX?kZ~W~Lr5W7v?j0Sde\mwB&/ypo^}> +a'4xMc^^KroE~+v^&^#[B">soBo1y6(TW6#UZiC]o>C6`ej+i Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAJFBMVEWJBwe5BQDl LASZU0/LTEWEfHbyj0Txi32+sKrp1Mv944X8/fm1rS+cAAAACXBIWXMAAAsTAAAL EwEAmpwYAAAAB3RJTUUH3wESCxwC7OBhbgAAACFpVFh0Q29tbWVudAAAAAAAQ3Jl YXRlZCB3aXRoIFRoZSBHSU1QbbCXAAAAAghJREFUOMu11DFvEzEUAGCfEhBVFzuq AKkLd0O6VrIQsLXVSZXoWE5N1K3DobBBA9fQpRWc8OkWouaIjedWKiyREOKs+3PY fvalCNjgLVHeF7/3bMtBzV8C/VsQ8tecEgCcDgrzjekwKZ7TwsJZd/ywEKwwP+ZM 8P3drTsAwWn2mpWuDDuYiK1bFs6De0KUUFw0tWxm+D4AIhuuvZqtyWYeO7jQ4Aea 7jUqI+ixhQoHex4WshEvSXdood7stlv4oSuFOC4tqGcr0NjEqXgV4mMJO38nld4+ xKNxRDon7khyKVqY7YR4d+Cg0OMrkWXZOM7YDkEfKiilCn1qYv4mighZiynuHHOA Wq9QJq+BIES7lMFUtcikMnkDGHUoncA+uHgrP0ctIEqfwLHzeSo+eUA66AqzwN6n 2ZHJhw6Qh/PoyC/QENyEyC/AyNjq74Bs+3UH0xYwzDUC4B97HgLocg1QLYgDDO1v f3UX9Y307Ew4AHh67YAFFsxEpkXwpXY3eIgMhAAE3R19L919nNnuD2wlPcDE3UeT L2ytEICQib9BXgS2fU8PrD82ToYO1OEmMSnYTjSqSv9wdC0tPYC+rQRQD9ESnldF CyqfmiYW+tlALt8gH2xrMdC/youbjzPXEun+/ReXsMCDyve3dZc09fn2Oas8oXGc Jj6/fOeK5UmSMPmf/jL+GD8BEj0k/Fn6IO4AAAAASUVORK5CYII= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47Mszq1d8Cz47fM X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=grem.de header.s=20180501 header.b=mX5gNyXr; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@grem.de designates 213.239.217.29 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@grem.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.82 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[grem.de:s=20180501]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:213.239.217.29/32]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[grem.de]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[grem.de:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(-0.32)[ipnet: 213.239.192.0/18(-0.02), asn: 24940(-1.57), country: DE(-0.01)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:213.239.192.0/18, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 18:36:08 -0000 On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 11:21:20 -0700 Warner Losh wrote: > However, the hpt27xx driver turns out not to be Giant locked on > versions of FreeBSD >= 10. So it's off the list. Is that a real list that could be made publicly available, so users can check if any of the hardware they use will be affected? Thanks, Michael -- Michael Gmelin From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Nov 26 20:26:44 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7BCA1C05E9 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 20:26:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x832.google.com (mail-qt1-x832.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::832]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47MwRS0CSbz4DT9 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 20:26:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x832.google.com with SMTP id w47so18767920qtk.4 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 12:26:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=TkTyfiBzw03VlmzpJC8FtWZ8SX4H+IryIPLLWCVmaw8=; b=pmxXj/ycuNOvlFz9UwXoWvHlyYVCX3RZNfX0EayJwdS8WQULswk5l0qKSHxOEEvm54 2yVM0l6h9DZpp5AlSrSKSshjttJ7Rt90enLMIt+vjjOaB1w0qURyd/HiQvdQSAgx/aEJ 1vmIQvucbxrz1P/HjMlt9Y7o/FlhRWFWWmZTbsMKHhEPdF6NISJ4bRG43aPif+v5o22e AIfqc1ogflk+EfUqyzRuXg8mclPcWaYT0fwChm8mgum3qrGGu9fVDuP0watD1j5GFj1v Ko6egXB6iEwicE0DbHLmvyBjWtdv0eU3SZPAQZp8+Ewd4mcbkLAAvKTlsh0cIS2nKotM IMQA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=TkTyfiBzw03VlmzpJC8FtWZ8SX4H+IryIPLLWCVmaw8=; b=jBwLUoxcqJtF+pyGi1O6PR8+syfFDbzrrTL9STr+N/Y9DMr7ul3GU95ETYaStMROqh qnEtirPyo98LGjUisYdqhtSwnau/uSO3yRoK+/9zBCRFuJbN/amuf1KAKHMpqVJho9Oq BGbqifmzUwtuNv/RXVg+PQEu9mjcioJNpf44Px6GA0l65Im8Sc1UCVTMdj6I10ye0pFT GI5vawX9PcbRnAEVSi0LnDuAnQvWyYSltApQW0f/K8/1WPYSV7brfYscJfAnNhyNM2E7 BSDetXQQ+F+Ja0ANlZJOjey8IVEJ98XACFYr4ezAr6vXOYlDkWRFTDuVDc2YWGCu8dU7 4yeA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWyAUTzaeeINI80bl5NK81l4ZqxrV6ZQKbGfYkJjSqlE/TdoHza G3B+WaEYBuOWu9TcysEt5sI6od9AKunnt9ilhAl0RA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyzIhApEt9x9mw61CkjKbpSEBDVRW4amaWoO2YWwPsehvFTaQx/8cmH6/63jmo6cUscYCK++JlT7N1s4yoF9ig= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3a64:: with SMTP id w91mr37397084qte.242.1574800002282; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 12:26:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201911260917.xAQ9Hcf1001914@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> <20191126193555.047a63cf@bsd64.grem.de> In-Reply-To: <20191126193555.047a63cf@bsd64.grem.de> From: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 13:26:31 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Killing Giant for 13 To: Michael Gmelin Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47MwRS0CSbz4DT9 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=pmxXj/yc; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::832) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.73 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2.3.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(-2.73)[ip: (-9.37), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.27), asn: 15169(-1.95), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 20:26:45 -0000 On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 11:35 AM Michael Gmelin wrote: > > > On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 11:21:20 -0700 > Warner Losh wrote: > > > > However, the hpt27xx driver turns out not to be Giant locked on > > versions of FreeBSD >= 10. So it's off the list. > > Is that a real list that could be made publicly available, so users can > check if any of the hardware they use will be affected? > I've started doing an audit. Once the audit is done, I'll post the final list of drivers that weren't trivial to make not depend on Giant. I'll post after thanksgiving (so about a week or two). Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Nov 26 22:23:31 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7C301C33C8 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 22:23:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x733.google.com (mail-qk1-x733.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::733]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47Mz2B2P00z4LPN for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 22:23:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x733.google.com with SMTP id d124so2494457qke.6 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 14:23:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=rVLp8H4NkedzAvOvmbabxC56TcL2/Da1csYsD3xU9MI=; b=GQ5OsaSNPykZL3qwR0I15tYumiQQWrtE3MBJJFb2xS43qFCzHmYjNNaPqvYEoiozwN C9RypRpCJ4S4Aork9op6YOqzVCrIgJtfVwh0GB97sGSVgsYewYD2JZS44G1xi1/Dn3p7 ksoN+czH24HxjX1LFNgz2GqqSXX5ZlJXwLjU+3KfwJ4UH6XLqBr/wu3OUVAlxCsKSp+H W9GoXRIYrO16aOMqgqWmUfSD86icLhAvmk5wHoOcV62dYEvGjQZ+gbFYuQwZGd9yaBzN rfJuYm6jZbMA12dw6RQjr2+Z8DKMn4O8bzi+2594GUqM7VoDXmKxv5cM03F5zLtHrBwk 7iXg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=rVLp8H4NkedzAvOvmbabxC56TcL2/Da1csYsD3xU9MI=; b=CEemsSBzWbbc8Rn0aKbsFfCbhfxNQTlinelNqLf5nR9JmuDZC1zCkdkbqIA7pvaK60 2Vh/Bfexz88vWOx1wZqGJr+FIjdN54T56iANiwkvKDF0HrF+akQleXGU7WxPz5ilBtOU WSaP0fJ7Y/hbB1QndWcjZ5WY21ZSj9XFwuNtSJ5sC1CrILk9dQKH796yWBSzIhNwN6ba 6L52tiFMjQv4G3S7fcBThktbQUGpTPgDiGr9qYCs1IteZXfwkPKskS7/JpzBn1AfdDbZ ZWW8hTqxqRcrzC4BMzTk1+prdQslVDtp4Qvdx712sP6ek077Lhf/6l98aPRen9Pm+lXS pIVA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVkT8l17sOkDkl1ZyNST3l+ycYzITwOlxlFCjVtleQ1qsD1NQme /sOuIFLpnrZ/DusC5W0B1/sU03oSmhdOq21AET2RlA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyy1eWMmTpvupZo42M5WwjIC+iOponsvDLg8SBv4tLT6Ma9wbIpmNfS+CbY0aG2pdtVRXXNaVKykJ9J8mwg4tE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:144:: with SMTP id e4mr859050qkn.240.1574807008581; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 14:23:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201911260917.xAQ9Hcf1001914@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> <20191126193555.047a63cf@bsd64.grem.de> <20191126194750.3ff939c3@ernst.home> In-Reply-To: <20191126194750.3ff939c3@ernst.home> From: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 15:23:17 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Killing Giant for 13 To: Gary Jennejohn Cc: Michael Gmelin , "Rodney W. Grimes" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47Mz2B2P00z4LPN X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=GQ5OsaSN; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::733) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.70 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.3.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(-2.70)[ip: (-9.25), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.27), asn: 15169(-1.95), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 22:23:31 -0000 On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 11:47 AM Gary Jennejohn wrote: > On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 19:35:55 +0100 > Michael Gmelin wrote: > > > On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 11:21:20 -0700 > > Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > > > However, the hpt27xx driver turns out not to be Giant locked on > > > versions of FreeBSD >= 10. So it's off the list. > > > > Is that a real list that could be made publicly available, so users can > > check if any of the hardware they use will be affected? > > > > cd /usr/src/sys > grep -Rl D_NEEDGIANT (assuming the user has the right permissions) > > Drivers which use GIANT have this somewhere in their code. > > I found 30 C file hits in HEAD. > Yea, about 25 drivers, 5 of which look to be trivial to change over, some already have. It used to be the case that all dev_t's in the tree were marked NEEDGIANT because they did things like check permissions or other such things that required Giant and this was easier than narrowing it down to just the little bit of code that needed it... And then there's all the interrupt handlers that aren't marked MPSAFE... how to grep for that? I think I may invent a NEEDS_GIANT sort of thing in preference to MPSAFE. And then there's sysctl proc handlers not marked safe. Same notion as the interrupt handlers. And finally all the direct use of the Giant lock, most of which I'll replace by a bus_lock()/bus_unlock() API, or are for the kbd / console mess (which I'll likely replace with another wrapper), and then the odd driver that needs Giant for some reason (I think there's 2 or 3 of these). That's the audit I wanted to get done before posting next steps. Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Nov 26 22:59:04 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 273A41C3FDF for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 22:59:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound2m.ore.mailhop.org (outbound2m.ore.mailhop.org [54.149.155.156]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47MzqC5MmWz4MmJ for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 22:59:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1574809142; cv=none; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; b=eEqa/8Ig4GKwe79Tie5HseGLjmxkvjTsDwExx2x9WDAKwpkyTSbMIVOdZvYR0x3wML0we+aiSw/Pi YvEKi9bD+TFMFuW5zOSNnTVNg7mhK0zuDRnpaVwtvzBTi+ReDcJOOfW2CINABOF8PBZx1wifQtz9kL pGMehvQfGmDjoGp0A6Nlw6lDPRLLfR+L2eo7Rhd5diHcP6lXreo/0X/d4AOhnosSp4g42GE3+cMmAA kYcafX6npkM87/82koC0+GFx3IMIyaLS06+XfR6tCSzrS3oCBR0kYMnsYD91+E2OT9vLWjaSBYg07B Ob+nghOJY3J8Rsrkg8XEDgw7l7agEBQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:dkim-signature:from; bh=TFlsvyM829vVg8An2Ume82bPUBg+5ziqlhDeyCWD+eM=; b=fREbtiXsTBZ9ji+rXmTy/8EnOByrlCFGYlryA2em49IM2vpmHpsVU/Sk1vUtcmuKfNevDzNmncVHR Eurye34edchg3KGJOBQBos1raZj23BOc8xacI9OAOfL7/5aXmSHc7mu0QlP9udqcBUTloPdZPo5PPO iwosxCMQc2OBnyaXZ6lSVTYMnphkeK7c4ZTlmpmtnLzE68BJtjQxzBdg84E8rEmO9LpxOMR/cZRx01 E4wzeQb6nn/nXdS1U6/AxuBYf3kD7R9Iu1lFnE0JnfkPJNJNyTqS3U2JInfnd31BQiExDKzajMyCth 0MyLB6gAQS9QGH7JGOVAZqVF5+GH4iw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; outbound4.ore.mailhop.org; spf=softfail smtp.mailfrom=freebsd.org smtp.remote-ip=67.177.211.60; dmarc=none header.from=freebsd.org; arc=none header.oldest-pass=0; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=dkim-high; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:from; bh=TFlsvyM829vVg8An2Ume82bPUBg+5ziqlhDeyCWD+eM=; b=e4TViMgsx3Z8ynDFIguuoRy0FxZxD7RGoDAy6VkeKb/KI3FIJjzwXynRH6DLEwImMypEJafud8uRr Swu8JDuUQR5G4ij/J9Pp5xQ3A9l6rFEohTfFNCHN7S7SbPGM8p5Feu9RFeNLH4mRoMUxgdjM7r34qn +PaOWS/X0z2Hy9X4WeKdcsWKcVnfei353V+HB4nLtvev9t8B86RHqoTox67y07Mqh8hsEjbCjwWUVg Fy23Qeq0qBJ4TIsT8Ias1CUycFUim9O7Nt+MVVUyZYvXCxsLkiwb6hI8TuZqzbp2pr2XxCPQR7MmLf ivQoBWJ05ibk7K9TURkIAaDBXAVnEVg== X-MHO-RoutePath: aGlwcGll X-MHO-User: 55343b53-10a0-11ea-829e-79a40d15cccd X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 67.177.211.60 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (unknown [67.177.211.60]) by outbound4.ore.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 55343b53-10a0-11ea-829e-79a40d15cccd; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 22:59:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id xAQMwxFV074088; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 15:58:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <64cf51783b75047d7f07e14c1ef507fbeede2a68.camel@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Killing Giant for 13 From: Ian Lepore To: Warner Losh Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 15:58:59 -0700 In-Reply-To: References: <201911260917.xAQ9Hcf1001914@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> <20191126193555.047a63cf@bsd64.grem.de> <20191126194750.3ff939c3@ernst.home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.28.5 FreeBSD GNOME Team Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47MzqC5MmWz4MmJ X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.72 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.87)[-0.870,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.85)[-0.852,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:54.148.0.0/15, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 22:59:04 -0000 On Tue, 2019-11-26 at 15:23 -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > And then there's all the interrupt handlers that aren't marked MPSAFE... > how to grep for that? I think I may invent a NEEDS_GIANT sort of thing in > preference to MPSAFE. I'll bet this gets all or most of them... grep -R -l 'bus_setup_intr(' * | xargs grep -L MPSAFE -- Ian From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Nov 26 23:26:19 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6EEB1C47DD for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 23:26:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x72b.google.com (mail-qk1-x72b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47N0Qg0lmLz4Nnh for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 23:26:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x72b.google.com with SMTP id m16so17802670qki.11 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 15:26:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=6LFNq1czyNNLDFjuSudnwAdLoCaG+zOwFj7CU+ic88Q=; b=nwSA8i6Tb4JWftAaP9TadD2ER9GGs/Ali+LqRJRLYmuPIQtAGGB600gN5CeFN5N28z JMdbGVsOzkCWGapiZDsN7ksKVi3JGniNFBgID9hKQHHsBDfENkhKhRBzEqNuFQwnjL0s HwlgHD5Rkgvuqak1kxFrQAj3Dsu2JEfSZ/t2g9p2YrmuvyxT464EPOwEscw8F/Zzx70z Fy3FWIPMiB2Q/MhryX6rvicD2LHiTJdUWHJA34mnxlmJnXBEbvwnaDhzfgVl/HOYrV82 uwpSfK/Inc1wlU0ev4F5hZ/NPgPHfSqSNXkqc1yrajyV54GK1no2uFOdh5kdWtYlg6IG KlKg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6LFNq1czyNNLDFjuSudnwAdLoCaG+zOwFj7CU+ic88Q=; b=NrHI4iraAiqZBEaunqQpnJc0PIbY9+pN2uGvVLJYwtHPKOHiBxzOpVi4wHK7DpdKhI mt5HHFfiXfh21o3k/zaj2q7D72TSP9NFxecigqi5HT84wHuzADsdwnNBeot7yPQk7Fxd LD06KHVTJl6ctAi2d+reW+P72dsIDwBEPl2yT8QJBHInnFNutQYSAX8IPf/MalNHgO1a Jd0aZT9PDqMf4buPAwPvHo8FDQJB9VRWFFW5mu2z9AF/F3mGH76tOD4UwYLv12jM6PyF N5OowxRK6J0QTag4D9TY7hDtSoJGkx3+7OtgUc0Gy0x4BAaGV1pfqhCdjCEX/iduONVt X7bw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUQU7DvJruil0hVKmGGFXJ2rcE80jwywYsniiPAaYItvt5fnuN0 3DwqErxvtYfSkJNnEDIVPRpTD8b/dbz91T2tnMAgB2yR X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyOAKpSe7R169zqff9sj2u4ubcKtjBAFTTEZeWSjLUPpU+2HYMQIdDDRFSLKR6nYuCG03aFsrGU9W+IToo99+E= X-Received: by 2002:a37:aa11:: with SMTP id t17mr1238223qke.60.1574810776919; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 15:26:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201911260917.xAQ9Hcf1001914@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> <20191126193555.047a63cf@bsd64.grem.de> <20191126194750.3ff939c3@ernst.home> <64cf51783b75047d7f07e14c1ef507fbeede2a68.camel@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <64cf51783b75047d7f07e14c1ef507fbeede2a68.camel@freebsd.org> From: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 16:26:05 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Killing Giant for 13 To: Ian Lepore Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47N0Qg0lmLz4Nnh X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=nwSA8i6T; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::72b) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.74 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[b.2.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(-2.74)[ip: (-9.41), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.27), asn: 15169(-1.95), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 23:26:19 -0000 On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 3:59 PM Ian Lepore wrote: > On Tue, 2019-11-26 at 15:23 -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > > And then there's all the interrupt handlers that aren't marked MPSAFE... > > how to grep for that? I think I may invent a NEEDS_GIANT sort of thing in > > preference to MPSAFE. > > I'll bet this gets all or most of them... > > grep -R -l 'bus_setup_intr(' * | xargs grep -L MPSAFE > It's a start... I plan on adding a new value and KASSERTs soon to make it more greppable... Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 27 00:21:52 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC26E1C5E70 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 00:21:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47N1fm4fgFz4S8t; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 00:21:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from John-Baldwins-MacBook-Pro-5.local (unknown [IPv6:2601:648:8881:1e90:448e:f342:f404:5183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: jhb) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3A6E6188D5; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 00:21:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Subject: Re: CFT: Open Crypto Framework Changes: Round 1 To: Benjamin Kaduk Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" References: <921919dd-6291-61af-2dc6-768bcdbd5cff@FreeBSD.org> <20191126165514.GX32847@mit.edu> From: John Baldwin Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=jhb@FreeBSD.org; keydata= mQGiBETQ+XcRBADMFybiq69u+fJRy/0wzqTNS8jFfWaBTs5/OfcV7wWezVmf9sgwn8TW0Dk0 c9MBl0pz+H01dA2ZSGZ5fXlmFIsee1WEzqeJzpiwd/pejPgSzXB9ijbLHZ2/E0jhGBcVy5Yo /Tw5+U/+laeYKu2xb0XPvM0zMNls1ah5OnP9a6Ql6wCgupaoMySb7DXm2LHD1Z9jTsHcAQMD /1jzh2BoHriy/Q2s4KzzjVp/mQO5DSm2z14BvbQRcXU48oAosHA1u3Wrov6LfPY+0U1tG47X 1BGfnQH+rNAaH0livoSBQ0IPI/8WfIW7ub4qV6HYwWKVqkDkqwcpmGNDbz3gfaDht6nsie5Z pcuCcul4M9CW7Md6zzyvktjnbz61BADGDCopfZC4of0Z3Ka0u8Wik6UJOuqShBt1WcFS8ya1 oB4rc4tXfSHyMF63aPUBMxHR5DXeH+EO2edoSwViDMqWk1jTnYza51rbGY+pebLQOVOxAY7k do5Ordl3wklBPMVEPWoZ61SdbcjhHVwaC5zfiskcxj5wwXd2E9qYlBqRg7QeSm9obiBCYWxk d2luIDxqaGJARnJlZUJTRC5vcmc+iGAEExECACAFAkTQ+awCGwMGCwkIBwMCBBUCCAMEFgID AQIeAQIXgAAKCRBy3lIGd+N/BI6RAJ9S97fvbME+3hxzE3JUyUZ6vTewDACdE1stFuSfqMvM jomvZdYxIYyTUpC5Ag0ERND5ghAIAPwsO0B7BL+bz8sLlLoQktGxXwXQfS5cInvL17Dsgnr3 1AKa94j9EnXQyPEj7u0d+LmEe6CGEGDh1OcGFTMVrof2ZzkSy4+FkZwMKJpTiqeaShMh+Goj XlwIMDxyADYvBIg3eN5YdFKaPQpfgSqhT+7El7w+wSZZD8pPQuLAnie5iz9C8iKy4/cMSOrH YUK/tO+Nhw8Jjlw94Ik0T80iEhI2t+XBVjwdfjbq3HrJ0ehqdBwukyeJRYKmbn298KOFQVHO EVbHA4rF/37jzaMadK43FgJ0SAhPPF5l4l89z5oPu0b/+5e2inA3b8J3iGZxywjM+Csq1tqz hltEc7Q+E08AAwUIAL+15XH8bPbjNJdVyg2CMl10JNW2wWg2Q6qdljeaRqeR6zFus7EZTwtX sNzs5bP8y51PSUDJbeiy2RNCNKWFMndM22TZnk3GNG45nQd4OwYK0RZVrikalmJY5Q6m7Z16 4yrZgIXFdKj2t8F+x613/SJW1lIr9/bDp4U9tw0V1g3l2dFtD3p3ZrQ3hpoDtoK70ioIAjjH aIXIAcm3FGZFXy503DOA0KaTWwvOVdYCFLm3zWuSOmrX/GsEc7ovasOWwjPn878qVjbUKWwx Q4QkF4OhUV9zPtf9tDSAZ3x7QSwoKbCoRCZ/xbyTUPyQ1VvNy/mYrBcYlzHodsaqUDjHuW+I SQQYEQIACQUCRND5ggIbDAAKCRBy3lIGd+N/BCO8AJ9j1dWVQWxw/YdTbEyrRKOY8YZNwwCf afMAg8QvmOWnHx3wl8WslCaXaE8= Message-ID: <9bca5e44-96d8-8ead-73b0-33626c3595ef@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 16:21:49 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20191126165514.GX32847@mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 00:21:52 -0000 On 11/26/19 8:55 AM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 11:40:48AM -0800, John Baldwin wrote: >> >> Some of these drivers had some dubious behavior (e.g. trying to carry >> over IVs across requests within a session), though they may have worked >> for at least some IPsec use cases before. > > I have a sneaking suspicion that this behavior (while dubious) is enshrined > in some protocol/cipher specifications. I will try to ask around and find > examples... CBC will do this if you split a large request down into smaller requests, but all of our in-kernel consumers don't do split requests but always describe an entire buffer for each request. I suspect that the IV behavior was inherited from the original OpenBSD code but probably dropped when OCF was changed as part of the fast IPsec work (or at some similar point). Only older drivers inherited from OpenBSD did the carryover. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Nov 30 20:46:59 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49EB11B7A6B for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2019 20:46:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cse.cem@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47QNhz021mz4VGb for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2019 20:46:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cse.cem@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id F34C31B7A6A; Sat, 30 Nov 2019 20:46:58 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1FD91B7A69 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2019 20:46:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cse.cem@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oi1-f171.google.com (mail-oi1-f171.google.com [209.85.167.171]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47QNhy1LhNz4VGZ for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2019 20:46:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cse.cem@gmail.com) Received: by mail-oi1-f171.google.com with SMTP id o12so28934904oic.9 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2019 12:46:57 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=y0pFjh7DdSUF9Tl3hwVXRh57T/JQ3vJ6U3cDHrIshDI=; b=Sk5QAvkpUsox/0M7Nkzr/Dq5uvlhzHrTT4cfRRDHStv8hmSbzkCeb4JtswIdnCOJqW hfu5OaB8yYCthkRTozDko/4xq6zccmeQKVxzch8NYB29nm1fsNtK8ada2UaBlwfOBUr6 VnWtQZ+95AE9+WY3LFNMbhEryW6ee5Kpr8GwAHnSrwnD7pzQMLh8XPcYmvUqMp55AbOB Ymn4V9SA+G2vSomcj1PRbrh6sUf0qPO0Qm7StYwfSNfNDvO9y66f306Dq0rpmKBoB6GO HYxqEkVb94hJGW8f/nLIrV6Yn85Cxe4YlVNOSwXpwAqKgJprmPMBb5mUOeKw3jDPBIDy FK/Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVEti1QglssgMsnx+RxqZPOO7iW5oCzAm2g/eTCdc5eodQ84zGJ W01DDI8ctfD8l//Ts381dl0ADWgy X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxMVTncAbMw6ADCFhnTIzEp+3/MuP0FLnYpP4JKvv9SQYRF/Y6+eqaphwdCuc+LCzEHHJmHZA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:9a2:: with SMTP id e2mr16416236oig.123.1575146816690; Sat, 30 Nov 2019 12:46:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi1-f181.google.com (mail-oi1-f181.google.com. [209.85.167.181]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x189sm4098387oig.20.2019.11.30.12.46.56 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 30 Nov 2019 12:46:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi1-f181.google.com with SMTP id 128so20915392oih.4 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2019 12:46:56 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:aca:6006:: with SMTP id u6mr18076831oib.137.1575146816198; Sat, 30 Nov 2019 12:46:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: cem@freebsd.org From: Conrad Meyer Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2019 12:46:45 -0800 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Killing RANDOM_LOADABLE? To: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47QNhy1LhNz4VGZ X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of csecem@gmail.com designates 209.85.167.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=csecem@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.34 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[cem@freebsd.org]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17:c]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[cem@freebsd.org,csecem@gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[cem@freebsd.org,csecem@gmail.com]; TO_DOM_EQ_FROM_DOM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[arch@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[171.167.85.209.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-1.34)[ip: (-1.53), ipnet: 209.85.128.0/17(-3.16), asn: 15169(-1.94), country: US(-0.05)]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[171.167.85.209.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2019 20:46:59 -0000 Hi, If you use / need RANDOM_LOADABLE, can you provide some information on your use case and needs? If RANDOM_LOADABLE support was dropped in FreeBSD, what would prevent you from carrying a local patch to redirect the same APIs in your downstream source tree, where you already carry some proprietary random device implementation? This option creates significant complexity in the random device. There are some simplifications we can make without removing the option, but there are tradeoffs, and removing the option is by far the most straightforward course. If you do not have a use for RANDOM_LOADABLE but know someone not subscribed to arch who might, I'd appreciate it if you could forward this to their attention. I'd prefer to avoid a discussion of imaginary or hypothetical use cases by non-consumers =E2=80=94 I'm looking = for real consumers' needs. Thanks, Conrad