From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Mon Oct 26 13:29:12 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E202C44593B for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 13:29:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from number201724@me.com) Received: from pv50p00im-zteg10021301.me.com (pv50p00im-zteg10021301.me.com [17.58.6.46]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKbK36jzVz4GqH for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 13:29:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from number201724@me.com) Received: from [10.0.0.4] (unknown [213.173.32.131]) by pv50p00im-zteg10021301.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0E9A8CC016C for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 13:29:04 +0000 (UTC) To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org From: YUAN RUI Subject: C1's latency is still way too high for our latency-sensitive deployment Message-ID: <7fc9ff47-03ad-d4e1-f499-75aef3ef56d9@me.com> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 21:29:02 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.235, 18.0.737 definitions=2020-10-26_06:2020-10-26, 2020-10-26 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=288 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-2006250000 definitions=main-2010260097 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKbK36jzVz4GqH X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.39 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[17.58.6.46:from]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[me.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:17.58.0.0/16]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[me.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[me.com,quarantine]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.38)[-0.381]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[me.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:714, ipnet:17.58.0.0/20, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.016]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[me.com:s=1a1hai]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[me.com:dkim]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-arch] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 13:29:12 -0000 C1's latency is still way too high for our latency-sensitive deployment I want a generic interface that allows applications to prevent entering deep C-state Similar: linux api:https://access.redhat.com/articles/65410 windows api:https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/timeapi/nf-timeapi-timebeginperiod In fact, a better way is to provide windows to applications in the form of APIs, But Linux can be fine-tuned. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Mon Oct 26 13:55:58 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA2A2446379 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 13:55:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKbvx4Lvwz4Hbq for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 13:55:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kib.kiev.ua (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 09QDtoWR078789 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 26 Oct 2020 15:55:53 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua 09QDtoWR078789 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 09QDtn7b078788; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 15:55:49 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 15:55:49 +0200 From: Konstantin Belousov To: YUAN RUI Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: C1's latency is still way too high for our latency-sensitive deployment Message-ID: <20201026135549.GN2643@kib.kiev.ua> References: <7fc9ff47-03ad-d4e1-f499-75aef3ef56d9@me.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7fc9ff47-03ad-d4e1-f499-75aef3ef56d9@me.com> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FROM, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on tom.home X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKbvx4Lvwz4Hbq X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=softfail (mx1.freebsd.org: 2001:470:d5e7:1::1 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of kostikbel@gmail.com) smtp.mailfrom=kostikbel@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.22 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.84)[-0.841]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.53)[-0.529]; R_SPF_SOFTFAIL(0.00)[~all:c]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.15)[0.146]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[me.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6939, ipnet:2001:470::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-arch]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[gmail.com : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 13:55:58 -0000 On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 09:29:02PM +0800, YUAN RUI via freebsd-arch wrote: > C1's latency is still way too high for our latency-sensitive deployment > I want a generic interface that allows applications to prevent entering deep > C-state > > > Similar: > > linux api:https://access.redhat.com/articles/65410 So what do you want that we do not provide ? There is cpu idle spin method that you can switch to, using machdep.idle sysctl. > > windows api:https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/timeapi/nf-timeapi-timebeginperiod > There is no mention that windows HALs tie timer precision with Cx latency. That said, FreeBSD has a knob kern.timecounter.alloweddeviation, that specifies how much precision is taken when setting up process timers or when sleeping by explicit user request. > > In fact, a better way is to provide windows to applications in the form of > APIs, But Linux can be fine-tuned. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Mon Oct 26 14:20:44 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8EF34466E3 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 14:20:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from number201724@me.com) Received: from pv50p00im-tydg10011801.me.com (pv50p00im-tydg10011801.me.com [17.58.6.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKcSX0rDDz4Jym for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 14:20:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from number201724@me.com) Received: from [10.0.0.4] (unknown [213.173.32.131]) by pv50p00im-tydg10011801.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9654D660362 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 14:20:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: C1's latency is still way too high for our latency-sensitive deployment To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: <7fc9ff47-03ad-d4e1-f499-75aef3ef56d9@me.com> <20201026135549.GN2643@kib.kiev.ua> From: YUAN RUI Message-ID: <8b583031-16bf-da29-8511-c3100ab36e44@me.com> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 22:20:33 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20201026135549.GN2643@kib.kiev.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.235, 18.0.737 definitions=2020-10-26_06:2020-10-26, 2020-10-26 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=694 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-2006250000 definitions=main-2010260104 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKcSX0rDDz4Jym X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.38 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[17.58.6.52:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:17.58.0.0/16:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[me.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[me.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[me.com,quarantine]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.37)[-0.371]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[me.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:714, ipnet:17.58.0.0/20, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.016]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[me.com:s=1a1hai]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[me.com:dkim]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-arch] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 14:20:44 -0000 It looks like I didn't find the document. The problem is solved. On 10/26/2020 9:55 PM, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 09:29:02PM +0800, YUAN RUI via freebsd-arch wrote: >> C1's latency is still way too high for our latency-sensitive deployment >> I want a generic interface that allows applications to prevent entering deep >> C-state >> >> >> Similar: >> >> linux api:https://access.redhat.com/articles/65410 > So what do you want that we do not provide ? > There is cpu idle spin method that you can switch to, using > machdep.idle sysctl. > >> windows api:https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/timeapi/nf-timeapi-timebeginperiod >> > There is no mention that windows HALs tie timer precision with Cx latency. > That said, FreeBSD has a knob kern.timecounter.alloweddeviation, that specifies > how much precision is taken when setting up process timers or when sleeping > by explicit user request. > >> In fact, a better way is to provide windows to applications in the form of >> APIs, But Linux can be fine-tuned. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Mon Oct 26 14:56:49 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 289F54471F7 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 14:56:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from khng@freebsdfoundation.org) Received: from mail-lf1-x12a.google.com (mail-lf1-x12a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKdG81dy9z4LXd for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 14:56:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from khng@freebsdfoundation.org) Received: by mail-lf1-x12a.google.com with SMTP id a9so12466291lfc.7 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 07:56:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=2cNlkQomvnd00t/oQfNsFDzn7wuwqLVi2eU9EQnqCys=; b=jwrXWdG3Ctj+Rm1VZl8guuVKF5hUwJ0EG2ggKiJJMwkXPgrLXh3zTu39BLG13hcyLV kyzCIem5ySHHK5xw8D6zEo9dZH6w4mU285QAo2DJYXAxOAr+C6FkPN874Vg5MPQ+YfOj hrI7IHL23SvhOaLdmLEIKgXzwQ7vFRoEJlVeIHX2P6gtLY+yWrbv/nS2XW+Sw40CKnNe GCY9RqeAt0wedAVssg8+/m3MftomLw3KEl8xmIF8iahOnBFgIA9gnuoN9Vd7or5lxKEK 4ViNuUok6yulaOUdiLc7kO+qL2xbUd8+KQFsh7m0TXC9seCSbk7cnf4erYpbelKTnMeo GU8w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530xSxTdA/ag9TE/V3W1p5L/LbVbilokEE8yOcs0DmBFlkJ+lKLI cxhD2AV20ITZTxOrr6zoCA/Rt7sj279KsWLBNu/wU9FDOPTpZWsh X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw6iDAcnOkqVKkbBy9UPH8+TP1OhccW5dTyCOcdln4f3pWFcPpVQmBtLacaT1t1twgnyGiEWATZr5S3ypJpPGI= X-Received: by 2002:a19:84d3:: with SMTP id g202mr5620323lfd.346.1603724205456; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 07:56:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Ka Ho Ng Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 22:56:34 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Draft IOCTL commands on sndstat To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKdG81dy9z4LXd X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.09 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.019]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[freebsdfoundation.org:s=gfnp-20170908]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[freebsdfoundation.org:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[freebsdfoundation.org,quarantine]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::12a:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.07)[-0.074]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-arch]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 14:56:49 -0000 Meanwhile, I was thinking if things sound better that we create another label called `nameunit` to hold something like pcm0, and prepend /dev/ to existing `devnode` string. By doing so, callers only need to directly use the `devnode` string to open the node without the hassle of snprintf/asprintf. Here is a piece of code to enumerate audio devices without error checking with `nameunit` label added: https://gist.github.com/khng300/b9b3ccc86c24691273dc36c85066e2dd Ka Ho On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 1:55 AM Ka Ho Ng wrote: > > Hi all, > > I have proposed a set of IOCTLs on sndstat. The IOCTLs are nvlist-based, > and the goal of these IOCTLs aims at eliminating text parsing as a > generic user space API. > Here is the link to the differential: > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26884. A piece of sample code > is also provided to demonstrate the usage of the IOCTLs. > > Regards, > Ka Ho From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Oct 27 15:47:52 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C64EC45213C for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 15:47:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CLGLc4tdXz3WYF for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 15:47:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id A7B224521A0; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 15:47:52 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A77D945213A for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 15:47:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLGLc3lD5z3Wc5 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 15:47:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from ivaldir.etoilebsd.net (etoilebsd.net [178.32.217.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: bapt) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4BBB52EC98 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 15:47:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: by ivaldir.etoilebsd.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8ECDB494CA; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:47:20 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:47:20 +0100 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Switch the default locale to C.UTF-8 before FreeBSD 13 Message-ID: <20201027154720.mjmn5cofvkqoyd5w@ivaldir.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 15:47:52 -0000 Hello everyone, I would like to switch the default locale to C.UTF-8 in FreeBSD 13.0 https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26973 The C.UTF-8 locales is the same as the actual C locale except it does support the unicode character set. But the collation (aka how sort is being done) etc are still the same as the C locale. What opinion on the matter? Best regards, Bapt From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Oct 27 16:43:30 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 191EE453EE0 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:43:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dim@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CLHZn723hz3bRm for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:43:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dim@FreeBSD.org) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id F13864540C6; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:43:29 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1046453FDE for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:43:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dim@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLHZn66Pjz3bMP; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:43:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dim@FreeBSD.org) Received: from tensor.andric.com (tensor.andric.com [IPv6:2001:470:7a58:1::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "tensor.andric.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: dim) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A0DCE2F908; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:43:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dim@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [IPv6:2001:470:7a58::424:16c3:e4c5:882c] (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:7a58:0:424:16c3:e4c5:882c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tensor.andric.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E6C344FC84; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 17:43:27 +0100 (CET) From: Dimitry Andric Message-Id: <16692305-26DC-4AAA-9962-47052807922A@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6B45A323-91E0-48AE-AA22-B9630AB29508"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.17\)) Subject: Re: Switch the default locale to C.UTF-8 before FreeBSD 13 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 17:43:19 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20201027154720.mjmn5cofvkqoyd5w@ivaldir.net> Cc: "arch@freebsd.org" To: Baptiste Daroussin References: <20201027154720.mjmn5cofvkqoyd5w@ivaldir.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.17) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:43:30 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6B45A323-91E0-48AE-AA22-B9630AB29508 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 27 Oct 2020, at 16:47, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >=20 > I would like to switch the default locale to C.UTF-8 in FreeBSD 13.0 >=20 > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26973 >=20 > The C.UTF-8 locales is the same as the actual C locale except it does = support > the unicode character set. But the collation (aka how sort is being = done) etc > are still the same as the C locale. >=20 > What opinion on the matter? It's certainly an improvement, as long as we are sure that no scripting (either in the base system or in ports) breaks because of this. That said, we might also need to bite the bullet, and figure out how to set an actual language in the installer, or during system bootup. The rest of the world (aka Linux) already sets e.g. LANG=3Den_US.UTF-8. -Dimitry --Apple-Mail=_6B45A323-91E0-48AE-AA22-B9630AB29508 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.2 iF0EARECAB0WIQR6tGLSzjX8bUI5T82wXqMKLiCWowUCX5hOKAAKCRCwXqMKLiCW ozg5AKD9KY9QxO38Ot3qmoWsnLMi+XO31QCgw1xsbuak3yZty3ShjKDvT94jBqc= =BebI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_6B45A323-91E0-48AE-AA22-B9630AB29508-- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Oct 27 16:53:08 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 966744546CD for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:53:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CLHnw3Yq3z3c9q for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:53:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 7A40C4546CC; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:53:08 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A036454807 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:53:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLHnw2gnjz3c7Q; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:53:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from ivaldir.etoilebsd.net (etoilebsd.net [178.32.217.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: bapt) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2C3182F90C; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:53:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: by ivaldir.etoilebsd.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id ABF1B49628; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 17:53:06 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 17:53:06 +0100 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: Dimitry Andric Cc: "arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Switch the default locale to C.UTF-8 before FreeBSD 13 Message-ID: <20201027165306.hlrntgrqjzw3mutr@ivaldir.net> References: <20201027154720.mjmn5cofvkqoyd5w@ivaldir.net> <16692305-26DC-4AAA-9962-47052807922A@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="4lou4yklexcyodul" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <16692305-26DC-4AAA-9962-47052807922A@FreeBSD.org> X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:53:08 -0000 --4lou4yklexcyodul Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 05:43:19PM +0100, Dimitry Andric wrote: > On 27 Oct 2020, at 16:47, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > >=20 > > I would like to switch the default locale to C.UTF-8 in FreeBSD 13.0 > >=20 > > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26973 > >=20 > > The C.UTF-8 locales is the same as the actual C locale except it does s= upport > > the unicode character set. But the collation (aka how sort is being don= e) etc > > are still the same as the C locale. > >=20 > > What opinion on the matter? >=20 > It's certainly an improvement, as long as we are sure that no scripting > (either in the base system or in ports) breaks because of this. >=20 > That said, we might also need to bite the bullet, and figure out how to > set an actual language in the installer, or during system bootup. The > rest of the world (aka Linux) already sets e.g. LANG=3Den_US.UTF-8. >=20 On Debian this is C.UTF-8 FYI which is an extension we took from them ;) en_US.UTF-8 can break script because it also means to activate unicode collation. the point of C.UTF-8 is to prevent that best regards, Bapt --4lou4yklexcyodul Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEgOTj3suS2urGXVU3Y4mL3PG3PloFAl+YUHAACgkQY4mL3PG3 PlpAAhAAq8xH9xKpIzRcPUxLvda/QQPAvmzGDc1lF17g3oxfvotiJvHwLq60+M/C I5z1+/Mg4mvF4dBxF9dFEQBHxx/qSn40Vwbvmozn+Cqn88B5tmS+NCBPrqGZGvIb /uXrRAEqq5ipgtJuqBge8HMXOapFF1vPk5Dr5zsYiNJT7IR8MpRdGKvlMM91eOVL 6oLk+qq4i/Qc9o9mWvs2hXWgnWwyB8P7KuDrUrcScQBSSrCf6j85PxxC10D1YCym bfddr2o0uUP5hxLz8Y88YoC3q1dLc9QmPD7nUClzPIhBuXxuNc2Bn1d8QLzIvSV/ Z48b+q/5N/4/x0ZTOaCP0AMLhj1Oymls+XLZ5MPXsdu4D72UGDiSmw82C2xZiVZk RuvJRsJqdOBewBPWmwBRJ293goCV3wbK+33HPVmNO6ZKez0DQomzUb4eJgLKSAm3 caHXEogECnyLc0NoVwUuE96u4uppDuZqhWU5btyB+j6NVV+NgAcxMdKAeKYZLpSh ipj9jsnpcVMrnmZySckMBZiqGLNiPO/cEfEnp+bcf1wdWIozhMnr3PZiMFarHzrY aTuZ7DQxpWJF7RlSCs5rXIfHS/c+xIRqVSO+iJfo5A/RKRBKZFdM5N7H7Tpm3z1+ IOtXqBc2L9QXz4Szg8XpJJb4KNslgXGZIQPcDIjiGP/ZWSSxmeY= =KcyG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --4lou4yklexcyodul-- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Oct 27 17:26:31 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A4CA4557D3 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 17:26:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olivier.freebsd@free.fr) Received: from smtp1-g21.free.fr (smtp1-g21.free.fr [212.27.42.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLJXQ25yJz3dyr for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 17:26:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olivier.freebsd@free.fr) Received: from ravel.localnet (unknown [2.15.196.14]) (Authenticated sender: olivier.freebsd@free.fr) by smtp1-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CB0EFB005D8 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 18:26:24 +0100 (CET) From: Olivier Certner To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Switch the default locale to C.UTF-8 before FreeBSD 13 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 18:26:23 +0100 Message-ID: <3190392.KMTXMz9Kuk@ravel> In-Reply-To: <20201027154720.mjmn5cofvkqoyd5w@ivaldir.net> References: <20201027154720.mjmn5cofvkqoyd5w@ivaldir.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CLJXQ25yJz3dyr X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of olivier.freebsd@free.fr has no SPF policy when checking 212.27.42.1) smtp.mailfrom=olivier.freebsd@free.fr X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.90 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[212.27.42.1:from]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[free.fr]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[2.15.196.14:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[free.fr]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; CTE_CASE(0.50)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:12322, ipnet:212.27.32.0/19, country:FR]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.03)[1.027]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.98)[0.977]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[free.fr]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.99)[0.995]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[212.27.42.1:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-arch] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 17:26:31 -0000 Hi, Yes, please. As an example, defaulting to C locale causes problems with certain apps when accessing file names containing non-ASCII characters. Sure, old-timers may have customized their systems, and even their installation images, but this is impractical for temporary VMs, or newcomers. Never had a problem while using build/install scripts in base or building ports with a current locale of fr_FR.UTF-8, except a minor one, unrelated to UTF-8, when building the doc (see https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ show_bug.cgi?id=246936)). Regards. -- Olivier Certner From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Oct 27 19:23:59 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49ED9458632 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 19:23:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CLM7z0fZ3z446F for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 19:23:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 1389D4581D7; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 19:23:59 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 123B7458252 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 19:23:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLM7x1mmLz43lJ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 19:23:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (v-critter.freebsd.dk [192.168.55.3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E9C11AF133; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 19:23:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 09RJNjQd012350 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 27 Oct 2020 19:23:45 GMT (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 09RJNjWx012349; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 19:23:45 GMT (envelope-from phk) To: Baptiste Daroussin cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Switch the default locale to C.UTF-8 before FreeBSD 13 In-reply-to: <20201027154720.mjmn5cofvkqoyd5w@ivaldir.net> From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: <20201027154720.mjmn5cofvkqoyd5w@ivaldir.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <12347.1603826625.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 19:23:45 +0000 Message-ID: <12348.1603826625@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CLM7x1mmLz43lJ X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of phk@critter.freebsd.dk designates 130.225.244.222 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=phk@critter.freebsd.dk X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.46 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[phk]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.dk]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.011]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.04)[-1.036]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.42)[-0.418]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[phk@phk.freebsd.dk,phk@critter.freebsd.dk]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1835, ipnet:130.225.0.0/16, country:EU]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[phk@phk.freebsd.dk,phk@critter.freebsd.dk]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[arch] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 19:23:59 -0000 -------- Baptiste Daroussin writes: > I would like to switch the default locale to C.UTF-8 in FreeBSD 13.0 > > What opinion on the matter? Yes please. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Oct 27 20:11:56 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 820C3459484 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 20:11:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oliver.pntr@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CLNCJ1QKfz46w8 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 20:11:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oliver.pntr@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 304BA45937B; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 20:11:56 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FF2C459500 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 20:11:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oliver.pntr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLNCH2YYJz46ml; 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Tue, 27 Oct 2020 13:11:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a25:d8d2:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 13:11:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <12348.1603826625@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <20201027154720.mjmn5cofvkqoyd5w@ivaldir.net> <12348.1603826625@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Oliver Pinter Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 21:11:53 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Switch the default locale to C.UTF-8 before FreeBSD 13 To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Baptiste Daroussin , "arch@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CLNCH2YYJz46ml X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=XNN9UmT8; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of oliverpntr@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2e as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=oliverpntr@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.23 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.992]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2e:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.24)[-0.245]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.990]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[arch]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 20:11:56 -0000 On Tuesday, October 27, 2020, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > -------- > Baptiste Daroussin writes: > > > I would like to switch the default locale to C.UTF-8 in FreeBSD 13.0 > > > > What opinion on the matter? > > Yes please. > > Yes for C.UTF-8 and no for other. Proper and not breaking collation is very important. > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Oct 27 20:15:11 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3628C459597 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 20:15:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@grem.de) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CLNH300TTz47Gc for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 20:15:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@grem.de) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id F21FE4592F9; 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Tue, 27 Oct 2020 20:15:06 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Switch the default locale to C.UTF-8 before FreeBSD 13 From: Michael Gmelin In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 21:15:05 +0100 Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Baptiste Daroussin , "arch@freebsd.org" Message-Id: References: To: Oliver Pinter X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17H35) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CLNH20PZrz475L X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=grem.de header.s=20180501 header.b=G1vSatcG; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@grem.de designates 213.239.217.29 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@grem.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.43 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:213.239.217.29/32]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[grem.de:+]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:213.239.192.0/18, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.03)[-1.027]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[grem.de:s=20180501]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.13)[0.133]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.04)[-1.039]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[grem.de]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[arch]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 20:15:11 -0000 > On 27. Oct 2020, at 21:12, Oliver Pinter wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn Tuesday, October 27, 2020, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >=20 >> -------- >> Baptiste Daroussin writes: >>=20 >>> I would like to switch the default locale to C.UTF-8 in FreeBSD 13.0 >>>=20 >>> What opinion on the matter? >>=20 >> Yes please. >>=20 >>=20 > Yes for C.UTF-8 and no for other. Proper and not breaking collation is ver= y > important. +1 From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Oct 27 22:24:46 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2468F45BFAB for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 22:24:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CLR8Y6lF2z4HrZ for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 22:24:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id E75CA45BD67; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 22:24:45 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E71D945C08D for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 22:24:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CLR8Y0pgKz4J4y; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 22:24:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (v-critter.freebsd.dk [192.168.55.3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BACAC1AF133; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 22:24:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 09RMOgbq061250 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 27 Oct 2020 22:24:42 GMT (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 09RMOgkb061249; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 22:24:42 GMT (envelope-from phk) To: Oliver Pinter cc: Baptiste Daroussin , "arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Switch the default locale to C.UTF-8 before FreeBSD 13 In-reply-to: From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: <20201027154720.mjmn5cofvkqoyd5w@ivaldir.net> <12348.1603826625@critter.freebsd.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <61247.1603837482.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 22:24:42 +0000 Message-ID: <61248.1603837482@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CLR8Y0pgKz4J4y X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of phk@critter.freebsd.dk designates 130.225.244.222 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=phk@critter.freebsd.dk X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.09 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[phk]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.dk]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.004]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.07)[-0.067]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.015]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[phk@phk.freebsd.dk,phk@critter.freebsd.dk]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1835, ipnet:130.225.0.0/16, country:EU]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[phk@phk.freebsd.dk,phk@critter.freebsd.dk]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[arch] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 22:24:46 -0000 -------- Oliver Pinter writes: > > > I would like to switch the default locale to C.UTF-8 in FreeBSD 13.0 > > > > > > What opinion on the matter? > > > > Yes please. > > > > > Yes for C.UTF-8 and no for other. Proper and not breaking collation is v= ery > important. Yes for finally dragging our ass into the 21st century and turning UTF8 on= by default -- = Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe = Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence= . From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Oct 29 13:21:25 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2877F451019 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 13:21:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roy@marples.name) Received: from relay2.marples.name (relay2.marples.name [77.68.23.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "relay2.marples.name", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CMR0h2WX1z3V4m for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 13:21:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roy@marples.name) Received: from mail.marples.name (mail.marples.name [IPv6:2001:470:690c:1::59]) by relay2.marples.name (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A2C1679B for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 13:21:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.73.1.30] (uberpc.marples.name [10.73.1.30]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.marples.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3481C11DE7 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 13:21:22 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Implementing SO_RERROR To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: From: Roy Marples Message-ID: <3e03dc23-1c0a-3f3e-a0f6-beaf3ff1146d@marples.name> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 13:21:21 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CMR0h2WX1z3V4m X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.25 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[marples.name:s=mail]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:relay2.marples.name:c]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.02)[-1.020]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.003]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[marples.name:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[marples.name,quarantine]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.23)[-0.228]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:77.68.0.0/17, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-arch] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 13:21:25 -0000 On 04/10/2020 19:48, Roy Marples via freebsd-arch wrote: > I have submitted https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26652 for review to rectify this > was asked to discuss the change here. So by the silence are people generally happy with this? I would like to move this forwards. Roy