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Date:      Wed, 22 May 1996 09:47:13 -0500 (CDT)
From:      Joe Greco <jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com>
To:        dave@persprog.com (David Alderman)
Cc:        hardware@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Triton chipset with 256k cache caches 32M only?
Message-ID:  <199605221447.JAA23075@brasil.moneng.mei.com>
In-Reply-To: <1E75A1F6F@novell.persprog.com> from "David Alderman" at May 20, 96 01:27:21 pm

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> > Obviously it is a matter of how paranoid (or silly?) you want to be..  I am
> > perfectly confident that my disks will puke before my RAM.
> > 
> > ... Joe
> > 
> 
> You may be right about ECC.  The loss of parity in the Triton I 
> should not be underestimated because of the potential for disaster at 
> the time the machine is first put into service.

Absolutely!  :-/

> A few years back, we put a Unix box into service which had DTC 
> caching disk controller in it.  Although the controller did a RAM 
> test on power up, it did not even make use of the parity bit on the 
> RAM that was installed. It took a few weeks of service before someone 
> discovered the little bit errors showing up in their data.  Since the 
> backup was on the same controller, you can guess how reliable they 
> were.  It took quite a while to restore the data integrity on this 
> system, even with the original backups that were uncorrupted by the 
> controller (a lot of data can be generated in a few weeks on a 
> server!).  I wish the computer had crashed!  It would have saved a 
> lot of time and effort.  

Yeah, I hear you there  :-(  And adding parity checking really isn't that
hard..

> I think Intel did a real disservice by ever producing a chipset that 
> did not check parity.  I know that Triton chipset motherboards are 
> being used as servers,  and that even a rigorous burnin may not 
> reveal some forms of memory failure that occur in a 32 bit operating 
> system under the stresses of real usage.  At least with parity, the 
> machine did go down and the administrator was alerted to the problem 
> but nothing is worse than gradual data corruption.
> 
> Maybe Intel is overcompensating a bit by giving us the option of ECC, 
> but anyone who was burned in the Triton I era might want that option.
> Will I use it? I don't know, but I am glad it is there.

Me too.  :-)

>From a practicality point of view, I understand producing a chipset with an
_option_ to disable parity.  Many consumer grade PC's are more interested in
cheapness than reliability.  Putting 32 bit memory in a consumer grade PC is
an obvious cost optimization.  ;-)

However, any site wanting a server class system should be extremely
interested in the ability to detect errors, even if the cost is
substantially more than 9/8 the cost of non-parity RAM (as the current
market seems to be).  The easy way to tell the men from the boys is who's
running FreeBSD on a hot PCI board with parity RAM  ;-)

I even buy parity RAM for non-parity boards, because I assume I will replace
the board someday  ;-)

Now, the nifty thing about ECC is that while you would not want to use it on
a daily basis, if something does happen (bad RAM with a few single bit
errors, etc), you may be able to coax the system into running long enough to
obtain replacements.  Sometimes that is important.  ;-)

... JG



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