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Date:      Sat, 25 Apr 2020 08:28:30 -0500
From:      Valeri Galtsev <galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu>
To:        freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Mailman's moderation checkbox?! - Why are so many FreeBSD haters on this list? (Troll bait)
Message-ID:  <762afc18-324a-05ab-cf1b-68de2afea9ae@kicp.uchicago.edu>
In-Reply-To: <20200425100348.3022f215@archlinux>
References:  <CAGBxaXk0Abwzk08aUFiNutTpADzAx4btFa0sWjuCoT_Awa=zuQ@mail.gmail.com> <6222c6ca-4709-d800-2d3a-59913bd2cf2a@gmail.com> <f5a0170f-a97d-c961-8a4f-95e1c1454dda@gmail.com> <CAGBxaXksjGrWJWXYzMg18sV7RAU8nsR1QRSPc6OJx7QdoiDvgw@mail.gmail.com> <20200425055723.00e6f974@archlinux> <CAGBxaX=baPYj__4scds27y+fZ0XcycYDwuZ8Qki-y0XuJVoocQ@mail.gmail.com> <20200425100348.3022f215@archlinux>

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On 4/25/20 3:03 AM, Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions wrote:
> S t o p  spreading misinformation, stop spreading FUD!
> 
> It's hard to ignore such replies. On almost all other mailing lists the
> moderation bit already would have been set.

I join you and ask list moderators to ban that person from the list.

Valeri

> 
> Note, you aren't doing FreeBSD a favour by spreading untruth about
> other operating systems. Subscribers of this list don't hate FreeBSD,
> so even promo based on facts, without bashing other operating systems
> is unneeded.
> 
> I never claimed that it is evil to make money by programming and
> selling software. I also never claimed that you need to buy a hardware
> + operating system + user app bundle put together by a dealer. "bundle"
> is for the right hardware, for the right operating system, for the
> right user application, which results in the right tool. The right tool
> for a landscape artist is a tablet PC with a pencil. The landscape
> artist needs a tablet PC, an operating system that does run on a tablet
> PC with pencil and a drawing app that does run on the operating system.
> You need a bundle, even if you are the one who put it together.
> 
> Thanks to GNU you will hardly find many legal Linux distribution that
> are binary only ;), let alone that the FUD you spread about "largely
> non-standardized methods of build from source with no real way of
> making sure you have all the required packages to compile against" is
> ridiculous. You are just unqualified. If you dislike split Linux
> packages, just chose a distro that doesn't split software from upstream
> into packages for the binaries, libraries, headers, e.g. Arch Linux. If
> you don't like Linux at all, don't care about it at all. However, even
> distros that split software from upstream into several packages tend to
> provide a fine user manual, e.g. Debian and Ubuntu.
> 
> As an example, gimp:
> 
> Arch Linux: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/gimp/
> It's a single package.
> 
> Debian (and Ubuntu) tracker:
> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/gimp
> It's a split package.
> 
>      gimp
>      gimp-data
>      libgimp2.0
>      libgimp2.0-dev
>      libgimp2.0-doc
> 
> You even don't need to read a fine manual to take a look at the control
> and rules files:
> 
> https://tracker.debian.org/media/packages/g/gimp/control-2.10.18-1
> https://tracker.debian.org/media/packages/g/gimp/rules-2.10.18-1
> 
> To understand some things of those files you might need to read the fine
> manual.
> 
> Arch PKGBUILDs are scripts, so you can already understand them without
> using a fine manual.
> 
> While Arch Linux provides a *BSD port alike build system, even distros
> that do not, such as Debian and Ubuntu, don't split the source packages.
> IOW if you download a source package, to build a new edited package, by
> following the fine manual, you don't need to worry about the split
> package policy.
> 
> A "computers for self purpose" is for a computer that isn't used as a
> useful tool in a special non-computer domain, it's for a computer that
> is just used as computer in a native computer domain. I do not mean
> for "selfish purposes".
> 
> There's a difference between coders who have got knowledge about
> computers and a special native non-computer domain, such as music,
> drawing art, elementary particle physics, bookkeeping etc. and coders
> who only have knowledge about computers.
> 
> I never met somebody who needs software or who is writing software in a
> domain that is not a computer domain in the first place and who cares
> about all that generalized pros and cons of different operating systems
> and licenses. What _we_ (I'm one of them) usually chose is the
> platform/bundle that fits best to the user's and/or developer's needs,
> so we sometimes end up with different hardware and different operating
> systems and different licensed software for different purposes.
> 
> The trousers I wear are made by a different vendor than the guitars I
> play. The operating system I'm using for one purpose could be another
> operating system, than what I'm using for another purpose. I'm not the
> only one who does chose a tool that fits to the purpose instead of
> taking care about generalisation. Even within a very special domain
> generalisation tends to be inaccurate.
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> 

-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Valeri Galtsev
Sr System Administrator
Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: 773-702-4247
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



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