From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 27 19:28:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43FC616A417 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 19:28:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: from igloo.linux.gr (igloo.linux.gr [62.1.205.36]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CEBC43D58 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 19:28:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: from gothmog.pc (host5.bedc.ondsl.gr [62.103.39.229]) (authenticated bits=128) by igloo.linux.gr (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-2) with ESMTP id k9RJS9WO023531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 27 Oct 2006 22:28:14 +0300 Received: from gothmog.pc (gothmog [127.0.0.1]) by gothmog.pc (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id k9RJSjYe087972; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 22:28:45 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: (from giorgos@localhost) by gothmog.pc (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id k9RJSiBN087971; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 22:28:44 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 22:28:44 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: kevlar Hodge-Podge Message-ID: <20061027192844.GA87916@gothmog.pc> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Hellug-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Hellug-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-2.641, required 5, AWL -0.24, BAYES_00 -2.60, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY 0.00) X-Hellug-MailScanner-From: keramida@freebsd.org X-Spam-Status: No Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why FreeBSD sucks X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 19:28:28 -0000 On 2006-10-26 06:25, kevlar Hodge-Podge wrote: > This post actually did get me thinking about a longtime frustration > with one aspect of the whole Linux vs. UNIX thing. First let me say > that I'm a real novice user so I hope this isn't something that has > been talked to death and resolved. The following is my own, personal opinion, so please take it all with a grain of salt... Talking, as in `constructive exchange of ideas, opinions and other useful stuff, with the explicit purpose of advancing the current state of the art', will *never* be resolved in the world of an open source system. This is not, of course, a bad thing. It merely means that we are -- or at least we should always be -- open to discussion about ways to improve, and we should actively encourage both this sort of exchange with the user community *and* take action where necessary. > One problem when comparing FreeBSD to most of the Linux distributions > is that they are in fact, distributions of an operating system and > FreeBSD is an operating system. But a different operating system, with a different set of goals. Even Linux distributions have goals which range from extremely non-technical, to deeply involved and complex. > So when you look at fedora for example the fedora team can choose to > use GNOME over other desktop environments, and bundle commonly used > software like firefox and openoffice. When fedora does this it is a > very reasonable and responsible thing for them to do, as they are > marketing themselves toward the desktop world. Right. > On the other hand FreeBSD can not make those same decisions, and if > they did it would be counter productive to all their users, even those > currently using GNOME, firefox and openoffice. Why do you think this is so? We can definitely improve the number of prebuilt packages we release with official ISO images, but this takes both manpower (to oversee the builds) and resources (build machines). We don't have a lot of these right now, so anything we can do to make things like ``a faster, full ports/ build and packaging run'' is going to be extremely good. This is also one of the places where non-technical FreeBSD users can help a lot, even without necessarily submitting source code or port packaging patches. To find more resources for the port-building cluster, even FreeBSD users who are not programming gods or packaging experts can donate to the project hardware to speed things up :) > Until very recently the comparison (from a PC end user?s point of > view) of FreeBSD vs. any Linux was apples and oranges. Now we have > pcbsd, desktopbsd and a few others that are really ?distributions? in > the same fashion as fedora is. More or less :) > Does anyone have suggestions for how a non-technical user of FreeBSD > can help contribute to the community with a focus on the > `distributions'? Is there anyone doing side by side comparisons of > these packaged solutions that use FreeBSD? There are _MANY_ ways in which a FreeBSD user can help the project. * I've already mentioned donations in hardware. A full list of stuff that FreeBSD developers would find useful can be found online at . If there is something in that list which you can send to a FreeBSD developer, like unsupported hardware that you would like to see a driver developer for, please consider contacting the respective developer or the Donations Liaison team. * Periodically check the ``Contributing to FreeBSD'' article and see if you can help with anything listed there. Among the most prominent tasks listed there, which do not really require programming godship or many other elite skills, is our documentation. The FreeBSD team respects highly and tries to address all the needs of the user who needs documentation about installing, using and maintaining FreeBSD systems. Please keep in mind that even a simple comment like ``I've read this article and it sucks, because I didn't get anything described there'', has its worth. Suggestions for new text, corrections or even a simple ``I tried *foo* listed at the *bar* article, and it fails with *baz*'', are even more welcome. For more technically oriented users, we have our ``Project Ideas'' pages, which work as a wish-list: * http://www.freebsd.org/projects/ideas/ Things that we would like to see as new features, as fixes or even as small, incremental improvements to existing functionality are listed there. If you are a developer, and can help us flesh out some of the items listed in this page, you are more than welcome to jump in, and start working in one of the areas listed there. Even if you are *NOT* a developer, but you would find the experience interesting, educating, and a challenging opportunity to find out more about your favorite operating system, you are still welcome to do so. These are just a few pointers, since you asked :) -- Giorgos