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Date:      Thu, 07 Nov 2002 15:52:08 -0800
From:      Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com>
To:        Sam Leffler <sam@errno.com>
Cc:        Julian Elischer <julian@elischer.org>, arch@FreeBSD.ORG, "Long, Scott" <Scott_Long@adaptec.com>, re@FreeBSD.ORG, Maksim Yevmenkin <myevmenk@exodus.net>, Murray Stokely <murray@freebsdmall.com>
Subject:   Re: Bluetooth code
Message-ID:  <3DCAFCA8.DF1FF47A@mindspring.com>
References:  <Pine.BSF.4.21.0211071328530.5860-100000@InterJet.elischer.org> <038501c286b2$5efb1890$52557f42@errno.com>

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Sam Leffler wrote:
> I don't want to see multiple instances of Bluetooth support in the system.
> As you noted there's a netbsd implementation already.  Having multiple
> incompatible implementations of the same protocol stack is silly.  If this
> one is better than the netbsd one then great, but I want to see answers to
> these questions.

Usually, I'm on the same page with you... but this time, no.

There are a *lot* of FreeBSD-specific changes that have gone into
FreeBSD without going into NetBSD/OpenBSD/BSI/OS-X, and there was
not a lot of complaining (except by a few of us) when those changes
went in.

Complaining when someone makes NetBSD-specific changes, and then
doesn't port them to FreeBSD, is, well, not really sane.


> Using netgraph for prototyping is fine.  Using it for a final version means
> only freebsd users can make use of it.  There aren't enough *bsd users
> around to not _TRY_ to get everyone sharing code.  Perhaps you should port
> netgraph to other bsd's?

It's really easy to make the same argument about the VM system in
FreeBSD, the VM system in NetBSD, or the VFS changes in FreeBSD
that made it impossible to share VFS modules between FreeBSD and
NetBSD -- an ongoing process that started in 1994, when FreeBSD
and NetBSD adopted different parameter definitions for the cookie
support in VOP_READDIR() for restarting directory enumerations over
NFS.

The counterargument is "port NetGraph to NetBSD, OpenBSD, and BSDI".

The issue that's being raised here is "Who gets to lead the parade?";
the answer "Be a follower, not a leader" isn't very satisfying to
anyone.


> I like this work.  I think it deserves inclusion in the system somewhere.
> I'm not keen on it being tied to netgraph but undoing that is obviously
> major work.  What I'd most like to understand is how it compares to the
> netbsd implementation and if it's going to be actively used and maintained.

I think the most salient comparison is "It runs on FreeBSD, and
the NetBSD implementation does not"; all other considerations
must be secondary to rough consensus and working code.

-- Terry

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