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Date:      Fri, 09 Jan 2004 20:24:08 -0500
From:      Richard Coleman <richardcoleman@mindspring.com>
To:        hackers@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Discussion on the future of floppies in 5.x and 6.x
Message-ID:  <3FFF5438.40709@mindspring.com>
In-Reply-To: <20040107235737.I32227@pooker.samsco.home>
References:  <20040107235737.I32227@pooker.samsco.home>

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Scott Long wrote:
> All,
> 
> Every FreeBSD release cycle in the past year has hit bumps due to install
> floppy problems.  This is becoming more and more of a burden on the
> Release Engineering Team, as we simply do not have the resources to
> constantly battle the floppies.
> 
> FreeBSD/i386 is the only port left that generates install floppies.
> Their primary purpose is to fascilitate installing FreeBSD on systems
> where a CDROM is either not available or is incompatible with the
> 'Non-Emulated El Torito' boot method that we use on our CDs.  Systems that
> cannot boot these CDs are typically those that are also not certified for
> WinNT4, Win2K, or WinXP.  Thus, nearly all machines produced after 1997
> can boot our CDs.
> 
> It is certainly possible to run FreeBSD 5.x on machines of this and prior
> vintage, and I certainly do not want to dispute or question any motives
> here.  However, the number of machines in this category is steadily
> declining as time goes on, while the effort put into supporting install
> floppies seems to be on the rise.  I certainly do not want to orphan these
> machines, so we need to find a compromise.
> 
> One solution is to find a dedicated 'floppy maintainer' that will
> frequently assess the floppies during the normal developement periods and
> work closely with the Release Engineering team to ensure that there are
> few surprises when it's time to cut a release.  I would expect this person
> to develop and execute a test plan that covers all of the common aspects
> of installing via floppy: basic sanity checks, loading drivers, installing
> via the various mechanisms, etc.  This person should also be comfortable
> with modifying makefiles and the sysinstall source.
> 
> The other solution is to replace install floppies with an 'Emulated El
> Torito' CD image.  I'm not going to go into the differences between
> 'non-emulated' and 'emulated' except to say that 'emulated' is the method
> used on FreeBSD 4.x (and prior), Win95, and Win98.  Virtually every system
> in existance that supports a CDROM supports this method.  This image would
> contain the loader, kernel, and MFS root, just like the current
> 'bootonly.iso' image, but would be configured for emulated booting.  Users
> could download this image, burn it, boot it, and then install FreeBSD just
> like they normally would.  Of course this adds the requirement of needing
> a CD burner, but these devices are becoming common enough that it could
> be a reasonable expectation.
> 
> Switching to this method doesn't entirely remove the headache of release
> floppies, but it does make it signficantly easier to deal with them.  The
> 'emulated' method actually uses a 2.88MB floppy image that combines the
> first two 1.44MB floppies that we traditionally produce.  By combining
> them, we have a bit more flexibility since the driver modules that are on
> the second floppy can go back into the kernel image and benefit from the
> compression that happens there.
> 
> So, this is something to consider before 5.3.  After that, we are
> stuck with the consequences of whatever we choose (or don't choose) for
> the entire 5.x lifespan.  I do not cherish the thought of fighting
> floppies for another 2-3 years.  I'm happy to work with someone who steps
> forward and is committed to maintaining the floppies as they are today.
> Otherwise, we need to seriously consider the alternative.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Scott

I apologize if this is a dumb question.  But rather than using two 
floppies during the install process, why not three or four?

Richard Coleman
richardcoleman@mindspring.com





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