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Date:      Sat, 16 May 2020 20:19:23 +0200
From:      Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de>
To:        "@lbutlr" <kremels@kreme.com>
Cc:        FreeBSD <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD 12.0 end-of-life
Message-ID:  <20200516201923.8676289a.freebsd@edvax.de>
In-Reply-To: <332714B8-2798-42CF-A082-9EDA180CC65B@kreme.com>
References:  <20200217231452.717FA1E820@freefall.freebsd.org> <CAFYkXjmZi1-MB6W0HsMx9gHek7Xg5heoSKKWkNTnw74dxRTwAw@mail.gmail.com> <85E7C97E-EF8B-4FC7-8EF1-758B7BCBAE90@kreme.com> <05112EEC-7FA3-4E18-974B-263A58058E01@kicp.uchicago.edu> <332714B8-2798-42CF-A082-9EDA180CC65B@kreme.com>

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On Sat, 16 May 2020 11:57:37 -0600, @lbutlr wrote:
> On 18 Feb 2020, at 07:08, Valeri Galtsev <galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu> wrote:
> > I have workstation (desktop) running FreeBSD.
> 
> But you are in a tiny tiny minority.

But _I_ am a big big user of FreeBSD for many many years,
especially (!) on the desktop, so this counts as well. ;-)



> > And from what is said on this list, I’m not the only one.
> 
> This list is a tiny tiny minority of FreeBSD users,
> and even here most of us are not using desktop FreeBSD.
> 
> 12/stable is projected for EOL in 2024. Doesn’t seem too short.

The era of "install once, then keep using" is long gone.
Due to the rising complexity not just in the OS, but at
application level (the libraries, the problem programs,
all the "apps"), continuous updates and changes are
required to keep - as strange as it might sound - the
OS "compatible with the applications". This is not a
consideration of "good vs. bad", it's just how things
have developed over time. You can like it or not, but
you have to agree with it because that's the status quo
you (sadly or fortunately) have to deal with.



> Considering the amount of security that is need4ed to run
> a system, the life cycles are going to be necessarily
> shorter between needed updates. The days of sticking a box
> I a closet and ignoring it for 10 years are, thankfully,
> long in the past for any responsible admin.

Why "thankfully"? Maybe you haven't experienced how great
that can be? Imagine a system designed for a specific job,
tailored to do what it is told, in a static, non-changing
manner. You install it. And it runs and runs and runs and
runs. Older hardware could do this. And older software, in
combination with that hardware, could do this. As long as
the requirements don't change, it's not a problem, especially
not when _not_ connected to the Internet - yes, I'm quite
aware that _this_ is a significant problem in considering
system security.

Try to see the user's view: He requests something - and the
system delivers. It does so as it did 5 years ago, and in
5 years, it will still do this.

And now change to the admin view: He knows that there is a
specific system that doesn't require him to pay attention
to. No scheduling for downtime where a python upgrade might
hose the whole set of applications; no configuration file
change that makes the whole system unusable. It just sits
there and does its thing. The responsible (!) admin of course
has proper documentation for all this.

Of course you canno generalize such a construct. It's probably
just a very small niche use case, but it probably still
exists somewhere. I wouldn't be surprised to somehow find
a FreeBSD 4.3 system on a 200 MHz Pentium II with SCSI disks
that controls some strange printing equipment... ;-)



-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...



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