From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 8 20:12:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E67A16A4CE for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:12:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp106.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp106.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.169.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0289843D1D for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:12:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from lloyd545220-trucker@yahoo.com) Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.59.3.210?) (wyoming?antelope@63.164.80.82 with plain) by smtp106.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Nov 2004 20:12:03 -0000 Message-ID: <418FD304.5040200@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 13:11:48 -0700 From: Lloyd Hayes User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC" References: <418A53E5.40404@yahoo.com> <44mzxu6g00.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <418DC569.2060106@yahoo.com> <20041107112602.GA22451@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk> <418E7050.2000208@yahoo.com> <07A3796B-3147-11D9-BFDF-003065A70D30@shire.net> In-Reply-To: <07A3796B-3147-11D9-BFDF-003065A70D30@shire.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org cc: William Hayes Subject: Re: Naming confusion X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:12:04 -0000 I know, and I agree. Right now, I am thinking that the next time that I have to upgrade hardware, it will have to be a MAC. Lloyd Hayes Email: lloyd545220-trucker@yahoo.com URL: http://TalkingStaff.bravehost.com E-FAX Number: (208) 248-6590 Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote: > Hi. This is sent OFF LIST > > If you ever get tired of the time you spend trying to get things > working with the stuff you are doing now, and futzing around and > stuff, just bite the bullet and buy an iBook. You can run all the > same stuff (including X) as on FreeBSD and Linux, plus it just works. > When you pull your truck into a Flying J or whereever and hook up to > the WIFI, it will just work. All my laptops and desktops are Mac OS > X. My servers are all FreeBSD (I run a web and email hosting company > -- actually 1 Linux server for some special java processing). I ran a > Linux desktop for a while but it was just too much hassle and time > spent trying to get simple things to work. > > iBooks start around $1k and are a good value and they just work. They > are unix based, but have mainstream app support, a GUI that just > works, and for the techno nerds :-) you also can run X, and all your > favorite open source apps. > > good luck! > Chad > > ps: I don't work for Apple or anything. Just that it seems you are > spending an awful amount of time trying to get simple things to work. > Time that could be better spent elsewhere I assume. > > On Nov 7, 2004, at 11:58 AM, Lloyd Hayes wrote: > >> Thanks for the reply. I liked what you said, and it pretty much sums >> up what I've seen all across the UNIX world. BSD and Linux seem to be >> geared towards permanent locations and for regular repeated types of >> projects. Mobility seems to a available, but on a very limited scale. >> However, there are people out there doing just this. I would really >> like read about their experiences with problems and solutions. >> >> As for using a Mac. I have always considered the Mac a superior >> machine, but their sales structure turns me off. They end up being >> too expensive. On my recommendation, my brother bought a Mac desktop. >> He like it so well that he bought a Mac laptop too. He's works as a >> Nuclear Analyst and a couple of years ago, he changed companies to >> work as head of department for a new company starting up. The people >> in the IT department are always dropping into his office to check his >> laptop. They check everyone's laptops which are used within the >> company. They are always wishing that the M$ operating laptops worked >> as well as his MAC. >> >> I've considered putting Darwin on my computers, but from what I have >> read, there are not enough PC type drivers for it. What originally >> drew me to FreeBSD was that the Mac OS-X was based on FreeBSD. >> >> But I have gotten side-tracked off of the subject. >> >> If I read your answer right, I can put any name in here like >> "traveler2.hayes.org", and as long as it's connecting to the Internet >> and it's not a server connected from the Internet, it should be OK. >> Right? >> >> Lloyd Hayes >> >> Email: lloyd545220-trucker@yahoo.com >> URL: http://TalkingStaff.bravehost.com E-FAX Number: (208) 248-6590 >> >> >> >> >> Matthew Seaman wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Nov 06, 2004 at 11:49:13PM -0700, Lloyd Hayes wrote: >>> >>> [ Hostname changes when going on-line from different locations ] >>> >>>>> don't worry about it. >>>>> >>>> With XFree86, it is an issue. >>>> It appears that Xorg won't configure correctly without it. Although >>>> I won't swear that's the problem with Xorg. >>>> >>> >>> One problem you will run into, with either flavour of X Windows, is to >>> do with the authentication mechanism. X is designed to be network >>> transparent -- so I can run an X program somewhere else on the net and >>> have it put its windows etc. on my local desktop. See xauth(1) for a >>> program you can use to manage access in that way. The problem is that >>> the records xauth(1) keeps in ~/.Xauthority are based on the machine's >>> hostname -- and that includes connecting to the local desktop too, as >>> a degenerate case of 'across the network'. So if your hostname >>> changes, suddenly you may well have to quit your current X session, >>> log out and log in again to reestablish those credentials. >>> >>> There are other programs, like sendmail(8), ipfw(8), natd(8), which >>> will tend to have an adverse reaction to the hostname and IP number >>> changing out from beneath them unless very carefully configured. >>> >>> Now, usually this doesn't pose too much of a problem as typically >>> dhclient(8) isn't configured to modify the hostname. The trouble >>> happens when the authentication system tries to *verify* the host >>> name. It does that by looking up the name in the DNS, which returns >>> one or more IP numbers. Then it looks up those IP numbers, and counts >>> the name as verified if any of them return the original hostname. >>> [Well, there's a bit more to it than that involving various other DNS >>> record types, but that's the basic idea] >>> >>> You can see that there are going to be problems with this if you're >>> moving between different connectivity providers: >>> >>> * Either you choose your own hostname and stick with it -- except >>> that the IP number you get from the ISP won't resolve back to >>> that hostname. In this case you could use a 'dynamic dns' type >>> service, as provided by eg. http://www.dyndns.org/ -- not >>> recommending that serive in particular, just using it as an >>> example. However this is normally used by home users and >>> precise timings of updates etc. may make it unsuitable for you. >>> You'll have to experiment. >>> >>> Note that the hostname doesn't actually *have* to correspond to >>> any of the IP numbers configured on any of the interfaces, but >>> that most software will assume that it does unless configured >>> otherwise. And it can be quite tricky to configure some >>> packages to cope with that sort of setup. >>> >>> * You accept the hostname that goes with the IP number dished out >>> by the ISP temporarily. That means logging out and back in >>> again when you go on-line. >>> >>>> I've been using my backup computer as a test bed for the various >>>> operating systems. M$ has never been real reliable. But my virus >>>> software seems to be blocking viruses almost daily which are aimed >>>> at one Microsoft product or another. It has become apparent to me >>>> that any computer that I have which is connected to the Internet >>>> needs to be using non-M$ products. I had hoped to make a painless >>>> transfer to one of the Linux or BSD products, much as I did about >>>> 11 years ago when I jumped from CBM and Apple computers to PCs. (13 >>>> years of using CBM computers and only a couple of years of using >>>> Apples.) >>>> >>> >>> Have you considered using a MacOS X machine? It has all of the >>> reliability and power of a Unix box, together with a user interface >>> which has had tens of thousands of man-hours put into polishing away >>> all of those sort of usability problems. It's very different indeed >>> from the old MacOS. >>> >>> In theory you can configure a FreeBSD portable to be almost as >>> flexible configuration-wise as a MacOS box is. But it isn't as easy, >>> and it certainly isn't for complete beginners. As you say, in so many >>> words: FreeBSD demands that you learn. Once you've got over the >>> initial hump most people find it quite rewarding and a very pleasant >>> OS to use. >>> >>> >>>> So far, it has been anything but painless. The priorities of a UNIX >>>> system is far different then what I've experienced. And I have yet >>>> to get a UNIX type system developed enough to access the Internet. >>>> One challenge or another keeps cropping up. >>>> >>>> So, it seems that I'm hitting text books again, and asking >>>> questions during my spare time.... >>>> >>>> The question that I keep asking myself is if I can get to a point >>>> with FreeBSD, or any UNIX type system, where I am comfortable with >>>> it and I can make it adapt to my changing environment. At this >>>> point, I feel that if I can learn enough about it, FreeBSD is my >>>> best answer. My reasoning is that while newer programs are always >>>> put into usage on any OS, you can usually still manually configure >>>> everything with FreeBSD. >>>> >>> >>> Yes. When people say that FreeBSD is a 'server OS', one of the things >>> that they imply is that it will be configured with a permanent network >>> connection, unchanging hostname and all the rest. That's FreeBSD's >>> natural environment and where it is easiest to deal with. >>> What you want to do is -- I wouldn't say unnatural -- but certainly >>> less usual. Consequently there's less experience of people building >>> that sort of configuration, less documentation, more bugs, more things >>> that are perhaps a bit awkwardly conceived. While books will cover >>> much of what you need, chances are they're missing odd crucial little >>> nuggets here and there. Usually such hints can be found on the web -- >>> in blog pages or bits of HTML that people have put up documenting how >>> they did something. Read it with a judicial eye, as often it will >>> make odd unwarranted assumptions about exactly what software you're >>> using or exactly what you're trying to do. It's the raw >>> documentation, if you like, that the more polished works like the >>> Handbook are distilled out of. >>> >>> >>>> Since many of the processes running on FreeBSD require a 'named' >>>> computer, I need to know how to handle this. Otherwise, as it says >>>> in "The Complete FreeBSD" book, there will be processes which will >>>> not run, or else they will not run correctly on my computer. The >>>> answer to this problem does not seemed to be addressed while using >>>> 'dhclient' in any of the printed information that I could find. >>>> >>> >>> Actually, there isn't "an" answer to this problem. There's a whole >>> series of answers dealing with separate bits of software that may or >>> may not be running on your system. That means you can use a divide >>> and conquer strategy, but as we so often say around here "show us the >>> details". Apart from anything else, that should let us identify >>> exactly which piece of software is causing that specific problematic >>> effect. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Matthew >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >> "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > >