From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 21 23:46:56 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CC371065670 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 23:46:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrew@areilly.bpa.nu) Received: from nskntqsrv03p.mx.bigpond.com (nskntqsrv03p.mx.bigpond.com [61.9.168.237]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18DF48FC28 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 23:46:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com ([124.188.161.100]) by nskntmtas04p.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20090921215909.OOFB1821.nskntmtas04p.mx.bigpond.com@nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com> for ; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:59:09 +0000 Received: from areilly.bpa.nu ([124.188.161.100]) by nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20090921215909.CEHK28036.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@areilly.bpa.nu> for ; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:59:09 +0000 Received: (qmail 82088 invoked by uid 501); 21 Sep 2009 21:58:43 -0000 Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 07:58:43 +1000 From: Andrew Reilly To: Alfred Perlstein Message-ID: <20090921215843.GA80840@duncan.reilly.home> References: <20090921112657.GW95398@hoeg.nl> <200909211237.n8LCbkxV017364@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> <200909211309.n8LD9eTr017654@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> <20090921160955.GZ21946@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20090921160955.GZ21946@elvis.mu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-RPD-ScanID: Class unknown; VirusThreatLevel unknown, RefID str=0001.0A150205.4AB7F72D.005F,ss=1,fgs=0 Cc: arch@freebsd.org, Garrett Wollman Subject: Re: tmux(1) in base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 23:46:56 -0000 On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 09:09:55AM -0700, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Garrett Wollman [090921 06:10] wrote: > > In article <20090921130346.GY21946@elvis.mu.org> you write: > > > > >I think he already explained that it's supposedly much better than > > >window(1) with a kinder license than screen(1). > > > > > >We really ought to ship with a screen(1)-like program. > > > > sudo pkg_add -r screen > > > > Problem solved. > > WORKS GREAT ESP WHEN NETWORK IS DOWN AND SOMEONE NEEDS MY HELP. Well I don't imagine that either screen or tmux are much use when the network is down. > WORKS AWESOME ON REALLY OLD MACHINES WHERE PACKAGES NO LONGER > EXIST. Adding anything to base *now* isn't going to help those machines, either. It'll just ensure that it isn't available in ports, where it *might* be useful. > Note: Apple, which cares more about a usable userland unix than > we do at this time has screen installed in base as well. Yeah, but they also include python, ruby and a full GUI e-mail client, so that's not really much of a comparison. Well, NetBSD ships with X and a bunch of extra things too, so there's clearly room for disagreement on where to draw the line. Personally, if the network is working well enough to ssh into a box, then it's probably working well enough to pkg_add whatever you need. It's not as though screen or tmux are in the same league as ssh (or even telnet) when it comes to shipping a system that is "useful" out of the box. Just IMO. FWIW. Cheers, -- Andrew