From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 1 00:20:51 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2329016A4CE for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 00:20:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from priv-edtnes57.telusplanet.net (outbound01.telus.net [199.185.220.220]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF14943D2F for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 00:20:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cpressey@catseye.mine.nu) Received: from catseye.biscuit.boo ([154.20.76.195]) by priv-edtnes57.telusplanet.netSMTP <20041201002049.HYSB12565.priv-edtnes57.telusplanet.net@catseye.biscuit.boo> for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:20:49 -0700 Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:24:03 -0800 From: Chris Pressey To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20041130162403.567a4e39.cpressey@catseye.mine.nu> In-Reply-To: <20041130230214.GA39964@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20041129024602.GA23324@turingmachine.mentalsiege.net> <1101748454.41ab58e61eb88@imp2-q.free.fr> <1101788709.41abf62519b57@imp2-q.free.fr> <20041130002603.692153b7.cpressey@catseye.mine.nu> <20041130145130.0aa893f1.cpressey@catseye.mine.nu> <20041130230214.GA39964@xor.obsecurity.org> Organization: Cat's Eye Technologies X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 1.0.0beta3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: The beastie boot menu. X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 00:20:51 -0000 On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:02:14 -0800 Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 02:51:30PM -0800, Chris Pressey wrote: > > > > [...] > > > I'm sorry, I just don't see the source of confusion. I don't > > > see the floundering. > > > > Do you follow cvs-src@? > > Come now, surely you can do a better recruiting job for DragonFly than > falling back on FUD. > > Kris I'm not recruiting for DragonFly; I raised these exact same issues about lack of a stated philosophy on their list a couple of months ago. I'm also not spreading FUD. I'm not sure of the best way to objectively measure the amount of floundering a project is undergoing, but I think counting the number of backouts and backout requests would be a good first approximation. In order to measure that, one would quite naturally have to read the CVS logs. And while I have not conducted a formal study, I've seen backouts and backout requests appear far more frequently on the FreeBSD CVS list than on any of the other BSD CVS lists I've followed. You may have noticed, in fact, that this entire thread was started off by one such backout. Now you might say, well FreeBSD only has more backouts because FreeBSD has so many more developers and so much more activity. That's almost certainly true. But that's even *more* of a reason to have a cohesive philosophy communicated clearly to the entire project, otherwise the amount of toe-stepping will become unmanageable. -Chris