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Date:      Sat, 19 Feb 2000 12:14:17 -0500
From:      "Jason Allum" <jja@nxos.com>
To:        <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: Crypto progress! (And a Biiiig TODO list)
Message-ID:  <006c01bf7afc$c0e2a790$e82da6d1@nxos.com>
References:  <20000218220138.0BD819B@woodstock.monkey.net> <38AE34D8.F7F88DBA@softweyr.com>

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Wes Peters" <wes@softweyr.com>
To: "Jon Hamilton" <hamilton@pobox.com>
Cc: "Lyndon Nerenberg" <lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca>; <current@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2000 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: Crypto progress! (And a Biiiig TODO list)


> And how exactly are they supposed to tell the difference between answering
> slowly due to breakin evasion vs. answering slowly because the system is
> a 386sx/16?
>
> You would want to answer all "mistakes" slowly, but valid logins quickly.
>

yup... and any reasonably-malicious software would timeout well before that,
and try something else... think multi-threaded, with a "work queue" of
tester-threads and a few control threads that "think up" the requests... now
imagine a distributed system. ;)

i think a better approach might be to "pre-qualify" the requesting-host
before even looking at the request itself.  this could be done with
diffie-hellman in a relatively straight forward manner...  and then the door
is open to symmetric encryption of the entire challenge/response exchange.
if a "qualified" host is ever compromised, and it's dh-key becomes known,
the malicious-user still doesn't have access to any other machines...  all
she has gained is the right to test login/password combinations herself...
(which is already offered in the currently-proposed system.) replay attacks
could be thwarted by adding timestamps to the exchange.  unless a
"qualified" hosts key is compromised, the only method that should be open to
our DoS friends is at the protocol level (syn-flooding, pipe-filling, etc.)

...and another idea:  if the secure connection is kept up over a period of
time, additional authentications could be performed...  the log information
could also be routed over the connection...  the authentication server would
also have a simple method of determining whether a given host is up or down:
do i have a connection, or not?

just a thought.

-
jason allum




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