Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2012 03:44:42 -0300 From: H <hm@hm.net.br> To: Doug Barton <dougb@freebsd.org> Cc: stable@freebsd.org, Andriy Gapon <avg@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: flowtable usable or not Message-ID: <4F51BDDA.3020602@hm.net.br> In-Reply-To: <4F5148A7.4080408@FreeBSD.org> References: <20120221143537.Horde.deyFDZjmRSRPQ52pxBIpnLA@webmail.leidinger.net> <BA7FFA2D-DEE6-4FB7-AE26-0BC79CBFD8C0@lists.zabbadoz.net> <4F4BA707.5070608@wasikowski.net> <4F4C3FE7.3040802@FreeBSD.org> <CACqU3MWx3pMMDncvOita-OAgfe=NPKtwKE2WeB_mdcYwozY81Q@mail.gmail.com> <4F4D51CB.2010508@FreeBSD.org> <4F4D5E5D.9040302@FreeBSD.org> <4F4DD288.5060106@FreeBSD.org> <CAHM0Q_O%2BCt6yhRL=B9oxgkL8EgLxZdo7-KFO2C8HqiN1=Kx_bw@mail.gmail.com> <4F4ED889.2070608@FreeBSD.org> <4F500BB9.4040307@FreeBSD.org> <CAHM0Q_OfeB7Kb=pgjGq0uffLJdJROGoCaGz=25Jito-kweAxRQ@mail.gmail.com> <4F5088CA.1090108@FreeBSD.org> <CAHM0Q_MZM6Gn_zPzxz5tLuzPOW=kK9YxqmrLTyitvGfAPhrkbw@mail.gmail.com> <4F510FBD.50008@FreeBSD.org> <4F513B2D.6010809@FreeBSD.org> <4F5148A7.4080408@FreeBSD.org>
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This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig4DB5391CF233C881E02D79E3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Doug Barton wrote: > Just looking at the committers, of which we have over 300, only a > couple dozen at most have ever identified as actually using FreeBSD as > a desktop at my count. Taking the larger development community into > account I think the numbers are a little better, but not much. Sure, > our strength is servers, and that is not going to change.=20 eventually that could be a good starting point, good question is, why not= ? > But how many real-life bugs have I personally uncovered in -current as > a result of actually running it (mostly) daily? I'm not the only one, > certainly, but if the numbers were flipped and the vast majority of > our developers *did* use FreeBSD routinely, how much better off would > we be?=20 again, why? let's face some reality. Forever installing FreeBSD Desktop, either KDE or Gnome, was a nightmare process, or better, to make it appear on screen was a nightmare. Even if somebody got all packages into his system (by miracle?), it still did not popped up. Without some special knowledge _no_chance_. who knows, the guys who created and battled on area51 knew why they chose this name :) Still now, kde4, hours of install, missing packages, compiling and still nothing, somewhere over the process, flies over the screen please set kdm4_enable=3D"YES" ... I guess that will not be noticed by any user Even if some smart guy figures out that he needs xorg-server, the port or package do not select all it needs for running, its own drivers and so. How a user should know that? There is a windeco which installs hundreds of deps, even sound what do not work on FreeBSD, but xorg do not have deps for its functionality? goooood ... ohhh I forgot, that has nothing to do with the desktop itself , sorry for mentioning ... Anybody can tell how somebody can find all this out? Don't say by reading because we need to look at the real facts and that is nobody want to read, they want a desktop nothing else, something silly and easy to read email and write docs and surf on the net, listen to a CD, they need to put a cd into the drive, running install process, reboot, using, nothing else and such a thing ... we do not have so where this potential users should come from? Only from heaven ... > And before anyone bothers to point it out, yes, I happen to be using > Windows at this exact moment. I have some layer 9 work to get done and > I need tools that are only available to me in Windows (more's the > pity). The sad thing is, judging by the activity on the -ports@ list, > the traffic in #bsdports, and just talking to/interacting with FreeBSD > users, a lot of *them* are not only interested in FreeBSD as a desktop > OS, they are actually doing it. IMO the weakest point is that we do not have the packages ready. Even if lots of you do not like it to hear, fact is that we must look around and see how others do it. Windows, whatever it is, it is easy to install for everybody. Same for Fedora, in order to stay with a Unix system, package handling, update with YUM on Fedora hardly fails. ALL packages are compiled, you never need to compile anything. Even if you need 800MB of packages, yum picks them all, installs them all, and all is fine up top date. Such a process is where we need to get orientation from. If it was my decision, it should be go to ports=3Dno_no, packages=3DYES I mean, as long as the packages are not complete and ready, no new port version should be released or announced So who dares,understand and can or like adventures, compiles from ports Such a decision would help FreeBSD in all means and would help the users as well, in any case it will create more users Why somebody should chose FreeBSD as his daily desktop, oh man, only some die-hard-guys like you and me, but you know, that is not hours of work, that is days, weeks and constant setbacks for whatever reasons ... that is not for anybody. And you are right, no traffic on the specific lists, why? because the three on the list, two can help themselves (you and me) and the other is the moderator ... :) not even the port maintainer/packager is on that list ... :) ps. the last statement might be exaggerated and might not be valid in all cases, so please do not shoot --=20 H --------------enig4DB5391CF233C881E02D79E3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk9RvdoACgkQvKVfg5xjCDw3pwCgl6VpArMASV7UMlPTKNaawlXX 7oAAoJuJqYb8oD1wbN7PaYXvoHcMExos =hOUp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig4DB5391CF233C881E02D79E3--
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