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Date:      Wed, 19 Sep 2001 22:04:07 +0100
From:      Paul Robinson <paul@akita.co.uk>
To:        cjclark@alum.mit.edu
Cc:        Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com>, Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@ofug.org>, Stephen Hurd <deuce@lordlegacy.org>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Helping victims of terror
Message-ID:  <20010919220407.A43466@jake.akitanet.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <20010919132340.D306@blossom.cjclark.org>; from cristjc@earthlink.net on Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 01:23:40PM -0700
References:  <NFBBJPHLGLNJEEECOCHAMEFMCDAA.deuce@lordlegacy.org> <xzpelp9s9ga.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no> <3BA33CB6.FE0102C8@mindspring.com> <20010919132340.D306@blossom.cjclark.org>

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On Sep 19, "Crist J. Clark" <cristjc@earthlink.net> wrote:

> I loathe to join the thread, but this is so-o way off base.

I was in this thread early on, and left because I didn't really feel
comfortable here with my pseudo-pacifist tendancies. However, here I come
back again. And to think - this is *freebsd*-chat... :-)
 
> Now, as to why no new nuclear plants have been built in the past few
> decades is a whole separate issue. Economics, regulation, and public
> fear of accidents have prevented this. However, the idea that the US
> public feels guilty about using fission weapons against Japan is
> completely unfounded.

You've actually kind of contradicted yourself there. In the 1940 and even
1950s (post-Hiroshima) nuclear power seems to have been seen as the future
of mankind - although I'm too young to have witnessed what went on there at
the time, I've even seen some of those 'homes of the future' films made back
then that seemed to suggest that by around now every home would have it's
own nuclear power source. This didn't happen for one primary reason -
nuclear power was equated with nuclear war. Seeing as the only real
documentary evidence of the effects of nuclear war are Hiroshima and
Nagasaki, it seems sensible they are used as evidence. I don't think this
has much to do with America or Japan however - we're talking more about the
effects.

When people see the film footage, or hear the accounts about people walking
around with their skin hanging off them, millions dead, etc. and THEN go
into a cold war where the primary threat is nuclear weapons, when you work
for GE, you're going to have problems convincing the general public - no
matter what their nationality - as to whether they want nuclear power.
That's because the word nuclear is already fixed in their minds as a threat,
as dangerous and something that kills people. Then, when a country manages
to let one of it's plants fall into disrepair and you end up with incidents
like Chernobyl, you realise that nuclear power is unlikely to be popular for
some years.
 
> I am wondering what type of hazardous chemical wastes from coal
> cumbustion you are speaking of. 

Google for hazardous wastes of coal combustion (note the difference in
spelling to the one you use) and see what you get. Coal combustion is
considered by the US Government (or rather EPA) as non-hazardous, but
contains toxic metals that get land-filled - arsenic, cadmium, chromium,
lead and mercury all feature in the lists I've seen.

This issue gets clouded because 'Green' organisations will frequently scream
and shout about nuclear power and waste incinerators, but seem very quiet
when to comes to coal-burning. In actual fact, Greenpeace don't seem to want
to talk about it all. 

What I would rather have is properly managed nuclear power, or even better
would be cost-effective solar, wind or wave power, perhaps with some more
effcient electronics in the world too. I would consider advocating pellet
fuels, but don't know enough about them. In fact, I've only just found a
load of papers on them whilst checking some of my facts in this post.
 
> As a chemical engineer, I could delve into how grossly
> disproportionate the fears of these things are as opposed to the real
> risks (the common irrational fears of crime and terrorism got nothing
> on these), but I'll spare you all.

If you're a chemical engineer, I'm suprised you aren't aware of the
by-products of coal combustion. I'm a Software Engineer, and even *I* know
that burning coal causes huge masses of pollution and large amounts of waste
that needs burying somewhere, preferably somewhere where it is above the
local water table.

Still, I managed to forget to put a main() in a C program the other day, so
we aren't all perfect, no matter what our job titles. :-)

--
PR

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