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Date:      Mon, 18 Mar 2019 15:31:40 +0100
From:      peter.blok@bsd4all.org
To:        FreeBSD Stable <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: Observations from a ZFS reorganization on 12-STABLE
Message-ID:  <F2685A09-DC42-4EBA-B727-1D5C28CB37BA@bsd4all.org>
In-Reply-To: <76f222db-8b75-80ef-ce48-a43217f10e60@denninger.net>
References:  <58eb1994-41bd-cd22-be66-0024bcbc36e6@denninger.net> <e5c648b4-ba73-5d3a-2924-be4d52e4c267@grosbein.net> <2baf16fd-3767-1dda-d519-995f7ebaf0cb@ingresso.co.uk> <20190318091431.W52549@mulder.mintsol.com> <76f222db-8b75-80ef-ce48-a43217f10e60@denninger.net>

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Same here using mfsbsd from 11-RELEASE. First attempt I forgot to add =
swap - it killed the ssh I was using to issue a zfs send on the remote =
system.

Next attempt I added swap, but ssh got killed too.

Third attempt I used mfsbsd from 12-RELEASE. It succeeded.

Now I am using mfsbsd 11-RELEASE with added swap and vis.zfs.arc_min and =
arc_max to 128Mb (it is a 4GB system) and it succeeds



> On 18 Mar 2019, at 15:14, Karl Denninger <karl@denninger.net> wrote:
>=20
> On 3/18/2019 08:37, Walter Cramer wrote:
>> I suggest caution in raising vm.v_free_min, at least on 11.2-RELEASE
>> systems with less RAM.  I tried "65536" (256MB) on a 4GB mini-server,
>> with vfs.zfs.arc_max of 2.5GB.  Bad things happened when the cron
>> daemon merely tried to run `periodic daily`.
>>=20
>> A few more details - ARC was mostly full, and "bad things" was 1:
>> `pagedaemon` seemed to be thrashing memory - using 100% of CPU, with
>> little disk activity, and 2: many normal processes seemed unable to
>> run. The latter is probably explained by `man 3 sysctl` (see entry =
for
>> "VM_V_FREE_MIN").
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Mon, 18 Mar 2019, Pete French wrote:
>>=20
>>> On 17/03/2019 21:57, Eugene Grosbein wrote:
>>>> I agree. Recently I've found kind-of-workaround for this problem:
>>>> increase vm.v_free_min so when "FREE" memory goes low,
>>>> page daemon wakes earlier and shrinks UMA (and ZFS ARC too) moving
>>>> some memory
>>>> from WIRED to FREE quick enough so it can be re-used before bad
>>>> things happen.
>>>>=20
>>>> But avoid increasing vm.v_free_min too much (e.g. over 1/4 of total
>>>> RAM)
>>>> because kernel may start behaving strange. For 16Gb system it =
should
>>>> be enough
>>>> to raise vm.v_free_min upto 262144 (1GB) or 131072 (512M).
>>>>=20
>>>> This is not permanent solution in any way but it really helps.
>>>=20
>>> Ah, thats very interesting, thankyou for that! I;ve been bitten by
>>> this issue too in the past, and it is (as mentioned) much improved =
on
>>> 12, but the act it could still cause issues worries me.
>>>=20
> Raising free_target should *not* result in that sort of thrashing.=20
> However, that's not really a fix standing alone either since the
> underlying problem is not being addressed by either change.  It is
> especially dangerous to raise the pager wakeup thresholds if you still
> run into UMA allocated-but-not-in-use not being cleared out issues as
> there's a risk of severe pathological behavior arising that's worse =
than
> the original problem.
>=20
> 11.1 and before (I didn't have enough operational experience with 11.2
> to know, as I went to 12.x from mostly-11.1 installs around here) were
> essentially unusable in my workload without either my patch set or the
> Phabricator one.
>=20
> This is *very* workload-specific however, or nobody would use ZFS on
> earlier releases, and many do without significant problems.
>=20
> --=20
> Karl Denninger
> karl@denninger.net <mailto:karl@denninger.net> =
<mailto:karl@denninger.net <mailto:karl@denninger.net>>
> /The Market Ticker/
> /[S/MIME encrypted email preferred]/




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