From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Mar 29 4:42:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from gscamnlm03.wr.usgs.gov (gscamnlm03.wr.usgs.gov [130.118.4.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB9BD37B41B; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 04:42:08 -0800 (PST) To: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, Gregory Neil Shapiro , owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The sendmail discussion... MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.9a January 7, 2002 Message-ID: From: "Robert L Sowders" Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 04:41:58 -0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on gscamnlm03/SERVER/USGS/DOI(Release 5.0.8 |June 18, 2001) at 03/29/2002 04:42:10 AM Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_mixed 0045C32988256B8B_=" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --=_mixed 0045C32988256B8B_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I would like to apologize to the community for my quick-fired-unthinking email. I should know better. But in my defense my fingers jerk uncontrollably toward the send key when I see people trashing software that has had so many man years of effort and review as sendmail. This should really jump over to chat now. "Karsten W. Rohrbach" 03/28/2002 04:52 AM To: Robert L Sowders cc: Gregory Neil Shapiro , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The sendmail discussion... Robert L Sowders(rsowders@usgs.gov)@2002.03.28 03:39:51 +0000: > Greg is absolutely correct. yes, i agree > These whiners, who constantly moan for code while never contributing any, > should contribute the code if they want it changed. being a terrible c-coder i have to admit that, after having a warm fuzzy feel in the freebsd community since years, i did not contribute more than a single line of code (wich, when i recall it right, was a fix to the overall limit of FD_SETSIZE inducing severe resource limitations to a variety of daemons, including apache, that could not open more than 256 files/sockets at once). what i did here in germany was to convince customers that freebsd was much more stable and performant for their setups than other os alternatives, and that, if i am allowed to say, with success. with my heritage from systems administration and systems deployment, i am neither a kernel hacker nor a c-wizard, but that's okay (in my opinion, of course) for me. what i did and do contribute are ideas (well, some may have been pretty wacky) and i highly appreciate the effort of all contributing people, creating a serious amount of high-quality code and answering the many questions posted on the mailing lists. > Also I shudder to think that those who customize their systems would > actually learn how to use all the tools available to them to prevent a > makeworld from overwriting or undoing their customizations. :) this, i already learned quite a long time ago, but this does not really fix the -RELEASE giving no option on how to select subsystems before they are installed in the filesystem during bootstrap installation. and, yes, i did an own release based on -STABLE for internal use for quite some time, but this turned out to be a very time-consuming process. > I wish that we could assign a bitch rating to some of these emails. Say a > sliding bitch scale depending on how much code the bitchee has > contributed. Then they could easily be filtered to /dev/null. > Waddayathink? ;) ;-) i know, that my posts on the base dist "completeness" issues did not gain me a hundred points in core and the rest of the community, but i perceive the "reality" my way, in my eyes, thus certainly biased, too. i also get your point that, with my "bitch level", my reputation in the community might not have improved in the last days, but the lack of package installation manifests in general (mainly for contrib/*) is an important point in freebsd installation, deployment and administration. i and several other people do not consider this as a bikeshed question, but you are right, that code does not write itself. therefor - in my little spare time - i am currently looking into installation tracking and also netbsd's syspkg concept and implementation. > Much ado about nothing, so far, RTFM. you of course mean the fine manual that comes with /usr/src/release ;-) since i spun off the whole mess, that obviously upset a lot of people, and i've received several very emotional responses (which, i must say, have nothing to do with discussion of the technical issue) i will look into the options mentioned above and contact the responsible folks when i got something done. i have to add, that i never had the impression of the freebsd community in general being based on emotions rather than on technical facts. i really appreciate that greg spent his time on writing down his point of view, the facts about his part in the sendmail/freebsd and the problems he is seeing. his mail perfectly illustrates the professional attitude behind the development of freebsd, and this spirit makes it the favourite server os for many people throughout the world. regards, /k -- > Gravity is an unforgiving motherfucker. KR433/KR11-RIPE -- WebMonster Community Founder -- nGENn GmbH Senior Techie http://www.webmonster.de/ -- ftp://ftp.webmonster.de/ -- http://www.ngenn.net/ GnuPG 0x2964BF46 2001-03-15 42F9 9FFF 50D4 2F38 DBEE DF22 3340 4F4E 2964 BF46 My mail is GnuPG signed -- Unsigned ones are bogus -- http://www.gnupg.org/ Please do not remove my address from To: and Cc: fields in mailing lists. 10x --=_mixed 0045C32988256B8B_= Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="att7sffl.dat" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="att7sffl.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0NClZlcnNpb246IEdudVBHIHYxLjAuNiAoRnJl ZUJTRCkNCkNvbW1lbnQ6IEZvciBpbmZvIHNlZSBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmdudXBnLm9yZw0KDQppRDhE QlFFOG94SDBNMEJQVGlsa3YwWVJBa1h1QUtDRDRoWTl5eUJ2azhwK21HeTQ1ZzNOOFhRQktBQ2VL N1NMDQpCRHdzN3ZQbElqWEtsQUQ4N0VwQ0tHOD0NCj0rS0daDQotLS0tLUVORCBQR1AgU0lHTkFU VVJFLS0tLS0NCg== --=_mixed 0045C32988256B8B_=-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message