Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2020 20:53:05 -0400 From: Aryeh Friedman <aryeh.friedman@gmail.com> To: Valeri Galtsev <galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu> Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Minimal skills Message-ID: <CAGBxaXk_x9OxdavTw52fxW%2BD4uNAefX8CMoHUiD-sY2dxKaoeA@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <B7C2E20B-408E-4AEB-B3E1-785981995C19@kicp.uchicago.edu> References: <mailman.5421.1591424554.4503.freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> <a7f9a8b5-29b1-c083-e82d-92192c2f3c9e@defert.com> <CAGBxaX=B3ieSMnFyQ__NyQ=OVoz53c06RVsa-jap6GR6r0Y7Ew@mail.gmail.com> <C49F5FB7-37F5-4A49-ADA2-16490089CFDC@kicp.uchicago.edu> <CAGBxaXmVAMv12B09XbCGPw6=NBXiyzKOz2w9j1tut-x9t8NEQg@mail.gmail.com> <CAEC73915Obkz2aNme3LZu6%2BJF3FLQER813-8%2BLFg9PKMMet3Lg@mail.gmail.com> <CAGBxaX=A0FkFW35VK6t8YNxHVVT0XvfCBeRMBN1BnqojwVv7Fw@mail.gmail.com> <B7C2E20B-408E-4AEB-B3E1-785981995C19@kicp.uchicago.edu>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 8:26 PM Valeri Galtsev <galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu> wrote: > > > > On Jun 7, 2020, at 1:59 PM, Aryeh Friedman <aryeh.friedman@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 2:48 PM Donald Wilde <dwilde1@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> On 6/7/20, Aryeh Friedman <aryeh.friedman@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 1:46 PM Valeri Galtsev < > galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu > >>> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> On Jun 6, 2020, at 8:17 PM, Aryeh Friedman <aryeh.friedman@gmail.co= m > > > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 5:06 AM Vincent DEFERT <20.100@defert.com> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> My advice: NEVER, ever, learn Java, for if you do, you'll never wa= nt > >>>>>> to > >>>>>> use another language and that could be a handicap in a new > >> developer's > >>>>>> career. > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> I switched 10 years ago to Java after 15 years of C/C++ (and an odd > >>>>> assortment of other languages) and certainly agree with the idea of > >> not > >>>>> wanting to use another language. Think of Java as the family SU= V, > >>>>> not > >>>>> particularly fast and nimble when you need high performance or very > >> low > >>>>> level work but what is it good for nothing is better (rock solid co= de > >>>> that > >>>>> doesn't require the above). That being said you should learn it b= ut > >>>> learn > >>>>> it with other languages. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> To the OP: > >>>> > >>>> As someone already said in this thread: Java is proprietary, and > Oracle > >>>> who bought out Sun Microsystems (the creator of Java) started chargi= ng > >>>> money end users of applications written in Java. > >>>> > >>>> > >>> Where on Earth did you get the idea that Oracle charges/gets royaltie= s > >> for > >>> 3rd application in Java!?!?!??!?!? I have *NEVER* paid a dime for any > >>> application and/or anything else written in Java (nor is there any > >> language > >>> in the legal material that comes with the language and/or any of the > >> tools > >>> that would even allow for a royalty)... the language spec is complete= ly > >>> open and anyone can write a compiler or a JVM (all the specs are > >> completely > >>> available)..... IBM has made one so have a few other people including > >> GNU. > >>> > >> You can use java 8 for your own purposes but Oracle's license > >> agreement on their website clearly states that only up until Java 7 is > >> it truly free. :-( This change occurred several years ago now. > >> > >> I don't have time to get the citation to support Valeri's assertion, > >> but it is true. > >> > > > > Then Wikipedia MUST be wrong? A direct quote from there article on > OpenJDK > > (1st paragraph): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK > > > > "OpenJDK (Open Java Development Kit) is a free and open-source > > implementation of the Java Platform, Standard Edition (Java SE).[1] It = is > > the result of an effort Sun Microsystems began in 2006. The > implementation > > is licensed under the GNU General Public License (GNU GPL) version 2 > with a > > linking exception. Were it not for the GPL linking exception, component= s > > that linked to the Java class library would be subject to the terms of > the > > GPL license. OpenJDK is the official reference implementation of Java S= E > > since version 7.[2][3][4]" > > > > And from the the OpenJDK web site itself: > > > > "Will Oracle change the OpenJDK licensing model? > > > > No. The OpenJDK Community continues to thrive with contributions from > > Oracle, as well as other companies, researchers, and individuals, and t= he > > GPL-based licensing model is one large part of this success. Oracle has > no > > plans to change it." https://openjdk.java.net/faq/ > > > > As to the language spec license and jvm spec license: > > > > https://docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jls/se14/html/spec-license.html > > (Apache derived license due to needing the patent infringement clause). > > [There are no patents that pertain to Java per se] > > > > This is just general thought not addressed to anyone in particular. > > For the moment it indeed is true that openjdk is free. While Sun > Microsystems was behind Java I was quite certain there will be no changes > neither for end user use of Java, not for openjdk. Sun Microsystem did ha= ve > that reputation (at least, in my book). Oracle has different reputation > (again, in my book). And charging end users of java applications was not = a > surprise for me. I am not saying openjdk will have the same faith, but if > that happens, it will not come as a surprise for me. > So by your logic someone should not learn C/C++ because there are commercial applications written in them like Windows and MS Office!?!? > Now, it is everybody=E2=80=99s own judgement people should rely on in est= imate of > how useful their skills in programming in Java may be in some future to > come. They still may be valuable even if you shift your field out of open > source domain, so do your own thinking. > According to IEEE's annual survey of what languages are used the most (all domains/combined totals) [ https://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/software/the-top-programming-languages-= 2019} Java is #2 and has been #1 or #2 for more than 10 years. It beats out everything but Python. Also a very quick look at ports shows 121 ports in the Java category (there are Java based ports not even listed in there like www/tomcat [from apache.org]) so it is most certainly used on open-source projects! Before saying something you might want to take your own advice and do your own thinking based on facts instead of unfounded gut reactions. > > Just my 2 cents, as always. > > Valeri > > > > > -- > > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > --=20 Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?CAGBxaXk_x9OxdavTw52fxW%2BD4uNAefX8CMoHUiD-sY2dxKaoeA>