Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:20:33 +0930 From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com> To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au> Cc: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>, Bill/Carolyn Pechter <pechter@shell.monmouth.com>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GNU software (was: "Open Source Town Meeting" supports only one faction) Message-ID: <19980722102033.H8098@freebie.lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <199807220039.RAA03042@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Tue, Jul 21, 1998 at 05:39:02PM -0700 References: <19980722095017.F8098@freebie.lemis.com> <199807220039.RAA03042@dingo.cdrom.com>
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On Tuesday, 21 July 1998 at 17:39:02 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: >> On Tuesday, 21 July 1998 at 17:08:58 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: >>>> On Tuesday, 21 July 1998 at 15:03:16 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: >>>>> At 04:52 PM 7/21/98 -0400, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Brett -- I also disagree with the Free Software Foundation's philosophy. >>>>>> However, I think it's a reasonable place for the funding to go. >>>>> >>>>> I disagree. The Free Software Foundation's main objective nowadays is to >>>>> promote the notion that the GPL is the One True Way. >>>> >>>> That may be. But do you intend to stop using GNU software because of >>>> that? If not, I think it's fair to support the people who supply it. >>> >>> You're making the mistake that the FSF want you to; namely that they >>> are the sole source of "GNU" software. What you may mean is that we >>> should not stop using GPL'd software. >> >> I'm not sure we're understanding each other here. My question was >> rhetorical, with an implicit "no" as answer. Looking in >> /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin, I see: >> >> bc cvs gdb gzip ptx tar binutils dc genclass ld rcs texinfo bison >> dialog gperf man sdiff as cc diff grep patch send-pr awk cpio diff3 >> groff perl sort >> >> Of these, I use frequently and believe we have no alternative source >> of: >> >> cvs gdb gzip rcs texinfo bison grep patch awk groff perl sort >> >> I also use Emacs and bash, both of which are GPLd. I have no >> intention of even trying to change. > > I never suggested otherwise. I merely ask you what makes you think > that the FSF are the only organisation that's supporting the > development of these tools. Ah. What makes you think I think that the FSF are the only organisation that's supporting the development of these tools? There were other good reasons mentioned for singling out the FSF (mainly, that they supplied some tools to *every* open source effort, and thus a donation to them wouldn't upset anybody (much :-)) >>> Whether that's desirable is arguable, but note that AFAIK almost >>> none of the GPL'd components we use (for example) are developed or >>> have their development supported substantially by the FSF. >> >> gcc, gdb, > > Cygnus are the only organisation that seems to have spent any real time > on these of late, and that significantly with funding from commercial > vendors. You omitted the binutils, which fall into the same category. I wasn't sure we didn't have an alternative for them. >> Emacs, > > A cast of thousands. But a solid FSF base. >> grep, > > A cast of several, with no clear affiliation (other than that the bit > written by RMS is the worst). How do you recognize that? >> awk? > > An FSF original. OK, I suppose we need to ask the question "Why support at all?". There are some signs that the FSF are going down the tubes, quite possibly as a result of rms's attitude, but definitely also because they're not the only kid on the block any more. It would be fair to ask "what have they done recently?". Nonetheless, I think an donation is appropriate as long as we use their stuff, even if their main contribution nowadays may be maintaining the source trees. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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