From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 26 10:41:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38F6416A4BF for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:41:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kientzle.com (h-66-166-149-50.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.166.149.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9DA743FA3 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:41:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kientzle@acm.org) Received: from acm.org (big.x.kientzle.com [66.166.149.54]) by kientzle.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7QHf4sE056117; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:41:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kientzle@acm.org) Message-ID: <3F4B9BE0.5010209@acm.org> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:41:52 -0700 From: Tim Kientzle User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030524 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tyler Kellen References: <000001c36bef$da8d1260$a700000a@TYBOX> In-Reply-To: <000001c36bef$da8d1260$a700000a@TYBOX> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Minimalist FreeBSD 4.8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: kientzle@acm.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:41:07 -0000 Tyler Kellen wrote: > I've got a 4.8 minimal install on an extra machine. As an LFS user > I find the FreeBSD 4.8 minimal install to be pretty far from minimal. You've found one of the major differences between FreeBSD and Linux. In short, FreeBSD is a complete system. It's designed, developed, and maintained as a single coherent project. (There are a few components that are imported from outside sources, but the key approach is still the same: the source code from those outside projects is integrated into FreeBSD's source code and then maintained as a part of the integrated FreeBSD project.) In contrast, Linux distributions are assembled from the results of a number of independently-managed projects. As a result, it is quite natural to remove (or not install) components of a Linux distribution. This is a less natural thing to do with FreeBSD. It is possible, and minimal FreeBSD systems are being used in a lot of embedded systems (such as routers, email appliances, and the like), but it does require a bit of expertise to get there. > I've checked > out the PicoBSD project, the MiniBSD project and the FreeBSD From > Scratch projects extensively. I'm not famillar enough with FreeBSD to > get any of them up and running the way I want. Those projects are intended more for people knowledgable about FreeBSD who want to customize FreeBSD for specialized applications. They really aren't designed for people just getting started. > I'm looking for a way to strip down my 4.8 box to nothing but gcc and > vi. Unfortunately I don't quite know how to get there. > I'm hoping to end up with an empty system that I can fool > around with and learn from the bottom up. My advice: start deleting things and see what happens. You can always re-install from the CDROM and start over if necessary. In the case of FreeBSD, though, a better way to start learning the system is probably to install a basic system, then learn how to compile and update the system from source code, and then start playing with the various customization options there (read "man make.conf" carefully, experiment with kernel configuration, etc.). That will help you get a feel for how the various pieces interact and which ones are important for what uses. You may want to set yourself a goal of building your own customized release CDs (e.g. "make release"). By the time you get there, you'll have a pretty good feel for the FreeBSD system as a whole. If you have programming skills, you can then start digging into the source code and seeing how it all works internally. If not, you can still get a lot out of browsing through the source tree to see what's there and how it all fits together. And, of course, read the mailing lists and ask questions. You've already got that part. FreeBSD is a great system. Welcome to the club! Tim Kientzle