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Date:      Tue, 9 Jul 2013 12:15:50 -0600
From:      Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
To:        Peter Wemm <peter@wemm.org>
Cc:        Konstantin Belousov <kostikbel@gmail.com>, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Tijl Coosemans <tijl@coosemans.org>, Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@freebsd.org>, Robert Millan <rmh@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: libutil in Debian
Message-ID:  <6E057FD0-9054-44CD-A806-3AFD8A7196CC@bsdimp.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAGE5yCpD7WxW6vFtUggYQ%2BBayi1p7fxzq41%2Ba6RCJagqPHV=Fw@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <CAOfDtXN2fWQAyGNb_ifH9y=zHO%2BGGnSdWnD8C6BzWDTU_7rWFQ@mail.gmail.com> <20130709113553.GP67810@FreeBSD.org> <CAOfDtXOTqzF9=s%2BUv6%2BMoAu0nrmyGrxJz4xaSJYEfDzRvrKx8g@mail.gmail.com> <20130709165939.GP91021@kib.kiev.ua> <0657575A-BF3A-486F-9582-C01E0FD97E38@bsdimp.com> <51DC4712.20707@coosemans.org> <CAGE5yCpD7WxW6vFtUggYQ%2BBayi1p7fxzq41%2Ba6RCJagqPHV=Fw@mail.gmail.com>

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On Jul 9, 2013, at 11:34 AM, Peter Wemm wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Tijl Coosemans <tijl@coosemans.org> =
wrote:
>> On 2013-07-09 19:13, Warner Losh wrote:
>>> On Jul 9, 2013, at 10:59 AM, Konstantin Belousov wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Jul 09, 2013 at 05:05:00PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
>>>>> 2013/7/9 Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@freebsd.org>:
>>>>>> With all respect to GNU and Debian the libutil in BSD appeared in =
1988,
>>>>>> and the fact that GNU has taken that name in 1996 isn't reason =
for BSD
>>>>>> to change name.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Thanks for pointing this out.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Please note that my request is only based on practical grounds. It
>>>>> shouldn't be interpreted as implying endorsement on Glibc's use of
>>>>> libutil name.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Historically, Glibc maintainer has been very difficult to deal =
with.
>>>>> This has affected non-Linux ports of Glibc as well. In contrast,
>>>>> FreeBSD community may or may not agree with proposals but is at =
least
>>>>> open to discuss things. This (rather than "fairness") is the =
reason I
>>>>> try to work things out here and not there.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Please take it as a compliment rather than as offence :-)
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Also, FreeBSD is just one of the BSD descendants, and all of them =
share
>>>>>> the libutil.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> So, I take it that the change I'm proposing could have disruptive =
effects.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I do think there are long-term advantages for FreeBSD and the =
other
>>>>> BSD descendants in making it easy for their APIs to be deployed
>>>>> elsewhere. I mean, in terms of portability.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> However I'm clearly biased so I'd rather not insist on this. I =
leave
>>>>> it for you to judge.
>>>>=20
>>>> Renaming the libutil would break the ABI of the base system.
>>>> If you are introducing new interfaces to the other systems, you
>>>> can use a library name you find suitable.  But for the library
>>>> which is linked with significant number of existing binaries,
>>>> rename is not an easy option.
>>>=20
>>> Can we use libmap.conf to create an alias for the new name on =
FreeBSD
>>> so that programs that link against libbsdutil, to pick an arbitrary
>>> name, can work and libbsdutil can be packaged for debian? This will
>>> allow things to be portable, while allowing repackaging by Debian.
>>=20
>> Or just a libbsdutil.so symlink?
>=20
> ld uses lib*.so
> ld-elf.so.1 uses the embedded DT_NEEDED that comes from the DT_SONAME
> embedded in the *.so files.
>=20
> Autoconf knows things like (a few random samples)
> checking for openpty() in -lutil
> checking for kvm_open in libutil
> checking for login_getclass() in -lutil
>=20
> While we could change the DT_SONAME, I don't see a way around "-lutil"
> without a lot of pain on our end.

We would continue to install libutil.*, so that solves all these =
problems. We'd just provide a compatibility thing that allows one to =
link with -lbsduitl also.

I'm not sure that a symlink would actually work, but if it does, that's =
an easy way around the problem.

Warner





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