Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 15:08:10 +0200 From: calvin8@t-online.de (Andi Scharfstein) To: Sue Blake <sue@welearn.com.au> Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: grammar Message-ID: <90146541484.20030531150810@myrealbox.com> In-Reply-To: <20030531101458.U33085@welearn.com.au> References: <3ECD3A8C.1040506@potentialtech.com> <00ae01c32668$2ff5ad70$2441d5cc@nitanjared> <20030531072026.O33085@welearn.com.au> <20030530213625.GA41089@wopr.caltech.edu> <20030531080645.Q33085@welearn.com.au> <15697888640.20030531014208@myrealbox.com> <20030531101458.U33085@welearn.com.au>
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Hi, > If I can remember some tourist Deutsch from decades ago, > we might have soemthing like this: > English German > in the case of im Falle Yes. > in case foo happens ??? "Wenn Foo passiert" / "Im Falle (von) Foo" > when foo happens (wenn?) Yes. "Wenn Foo passiert". Indeed, these two are used interchangeably. > if foo happens wenn No, that's "Falls Foo passiert". Like I wrote, "if" translates to "falls", "when" to "wenn". > I don't know if that's right, but if it is, perhaps to a German > speaker "if" has too many connotations of "when", so they feel > that using "in case" would make it clearer (but it confuses me). I don't think so... I think it's more important to note the correlation between "if" and "in case". You see, basically our "if" is just a shorter form of our "in case", which I think should account for this phenomenon. > But I suspect that it is English speakers who get confused over > wenn (myself particularly), not the reverse. Nope, it's just a "when". No ambiguities. > How would you handle, in German, "in case" as a precaution, e.g. > In case you break a fan belt, take a spare. Hmm... somehow, that sentence does not evoke the same feeling as yesterday's example. To be perfectly honest, I think I would understand that one as a precautionary message. So, I don't think we would say it like that, although that is merely my opinion and other Germans might feel otherwise. I would use a construct like "Take a spare fan belt so it won't matter if you break one". > Would that also use "im Falle"? If so, that might point to > the overlapping concepts that cause some of the confusion > in translation. It might use "im Falle", if it wasn't a precaution. > Let's take that a bit further. > In case you break a fan belt, take a spare. Anyway, with the intended meaning: "Falls dein Gebläseriemen kaputtgeht, nimm einen Ersatz(riemen)." > If you break a fan belt, you will have a big problem. "Falls dein Gebläseriemen kaputtgeht, wirst du ein großes Problem haben." would be verbatim, but I would rather say "Wenn dein Gebläseriemen kaputtgeht, hast du ein großes Problem." > When you break a fan belt, replace it with the spare. "Wenn dein Gebläseriemen kaputtgeht, ersetze ihn mit einem Ersatz(riemen)." > In the case of breaking a fan belt, you would be pleased have a spare. "Im Falle eines Kaputtgehens eines Gebläseriemens wärst du erfreut, einen Ersatz(riemen) zu haben." > Does German differentiate between these sentences, using different words? You decide... I also recommend, for reference, http://dict.leo.org Very good online translator. > When Grog wakes up he might have a strong opinion on this. Grog? -- Bye: Andi S. mailto:nullpointer@myrealbox.com
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