From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 27 16:09:53 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A330A1065673 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:09:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tajudd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qy0-f134.google.com (mail-qy0-f134.google.com [209.85.221.134]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ECC88FC17 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:09:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tajudd@gmail.com) Received: by qyk40 with SMTP id 40so2202949qyk.3 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:09:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=JYo5OsjQDB5DD+6dBD/HDJG/io2vOnMO1xNiIcqQcDg=; b=QMiPFs6E27g0WRjLcS00M92qPa+WTlfRT7phws3eOsVND/KtNyHv9wdr9DBZBDc1fd 4l7CwddyqkerrVQ3Vcp3Wi/F++hAsRzuBUq2NnNv1M+Jpx7ehaZI1utCxQVNP1J+5nla Vahisk7vXNKj9ggMn3u6HP6rI+SW2h9tjyhzQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=VCPgiAxduu9S+tNeGxxgRIQ6J8lxMpORCnT4zooEHRKQT2R9ghbNv2YHQlohIQ7Eoh foqwNeYYOYPPafUJkbR+vDiszX2pk9npAukTP3zfUEPPrfDAaqAmWLMu8zlPSUmhQwRH em6DZ2PC+D2CLQsxbpyFQ6wYoX9TXvcRZwjBA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.95.68 with SMTP id c4mr727144vcn.25.1238170192186; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:09:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20090327144533.GA89056@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> References: <20090325034317.160b149d.freebsd@edvax.de> <20090325041118.5c99710a.freebsd@edvax.de> <49C9A572.3070006@gwi.net> <20090325045911.56efaff6.freebsd@edvax.de> <49CC1230.8060005@onetel.com> <20090327115040.GA88708@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <20090327083131.59204048@scorpio> <20090327144533.GA89056@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 10:09:52 -0600 Message-ID: From: Tim Judd To: Frank Shute , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: installing freebsd on windows X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:09:53 -0000 On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 8:45 AM, Frank Shute wrote: > On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 08:31:31AM -0400, Jerry wrote: > > > > On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:50:40 +0000 > > Frank Shute wrote: > > > > >On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 01:03:59AM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > >> > > >> >It's certainly not slow and messy here. I installed PCBSD a couple > > >> >of months ago after a few years of rolling my own desktop and I > > >> >love it. On reasonable spec hardware it runs very well, the > > >> >developers have done an excellent job > > >> > > >> of course. windows vista runs well too on overmuscled hardware. > > > > > >No it doesn't. It doesn't run well on any hardware because it's got > > >things like a file manager that is broken for all intents and > > >purposes. No virtual desktops, undocumented shell etc. > > > > Actually, it supports at least four that I know of. You can Google for > > the information. > > Four of what? > > Why do I have to Google the info? Shouldn't there be a copy of the > info locally? Want to download the Internet? Ok, as soon as 5 minutes pass from the download, your copy is old. > I can google for unbroken filemanagers, documented shells, install > cygwin etc. but the software as it stands is horribly inadequate and > undocumented. > > > MS Windows is probably the best documented piece of software around. > I can see that perception. Depends on where you look though. Limiting yourself to one source (google) or another (MSDN) isn't wise, because google will give you real-world experience and help, whereas MSDN is documented as it SHOULD operate and RECOMMENDED practices. > Are you being sarcastic? > I'm not. > Where's the Handbook like FreeBSDs? > Write one, publish it. > You can read the source can you? I can't. > > Maybe I'm just getting old but Vista documentation seems to be > scattered to hell and west over the 'net - if you can find what you're > looking for at all. > Because not a single admin works the same as the next. People with Windows mindset will work in one way, people with Linux mindset will work another, and people with OS X mindset will work in a 3rd way, all unique.so > > What is it you are looking for? > > Where are the documents for using their crappy filemanager? There are > some with what they call, exaggeratingly, their help system but they > are useless compared to any unix documentation. Probably there are a > limited number of ways you can describe such an excrescance as the > Vista Explorer replacement. > Useless insults aside, there is a difference in the help systems for the desktop systems, versus the server systems. 2008 is a good mix, although it's not unix. OS X 10.5, Leopard is certified unix, and still doesn't feel as natural (or useful) as BSD or Linux does. If you want to know why, let me know. > Where are the manpages for their shell? They should at least have some > documentation that comes with the OS that lists and describes the > commands it supports. It doesn't. > manpages aren't an Internet thing. It's not an RFC standard. MS Windows has command line help, you use /? that works for most apps. cmd /? > I'm looking for an OS with a sane file hierarchy and a shell I can use > to manage the files therein. An editor better than Notepad would be a > bonus too. > I see the sense in C:\Users I see the sense in C:\Documents and Settings I see the sense in C:\WINDOWS I see the sense in using CMD.exe -- after all, the dos box has been around forever An editor better than Notepad? MS Write. And then MS Office/Word, then OpenOffice. Somewhere there's Abiwrite. Of all these 5, only one is commercial software. > Extensive documentation on the machine is a must. > Nope. That's a personal belief, one that isn't a "must". You're imagining things on that. > I've searched on google for documentation on the powershell to no > avail. All the docs as such seem to be available if you are a member > of MSDN - I presume so anyway, but for the general public they don't > seem to be readily available. > PowerShell is still "new".. If you want documentation, MS Press makes a windows 2008 resource kit including a book called 'Windows PowerShell Scripting Guide' that's over 600 pages. Not all resources have to be google-able. Spend a few bucks and buy something that'll help you... it'll benefit you too. > In short, I gave Vista a decent shot (I quite like XP) but it was like > wading through treacle and I thought that if I am to get the best out > of it, I'm probably going to have to sign up for MSDN and download > vast amounts of "missing" software and spend inordinate amounts of > time on google. > Books. Or get something like a Safari Books Online subscription and then start reading the info online... same books, online. Save a tree. > The cost and time benefits didn't seem worth it since I'm quite happy > with FreeBSD and there's only one Windows only application that I use: > AutoCAD; for that I maintain an XP installation. > > Staying on topic, my advice to the original poster is to dump Windows > and use FreeBSD - it's better documented and you can either use WINE > to run your "must have" Windows programs or have a separate Windows > partition. With a bit of luck your Windows "must haves" will eventually > have unix replacements. > On-topic? HAH! You went off the deep end. And Wine doesn't work for when you need NT Services and/or dependencies (such as .NET) -- at least, didn't for me. And I am flaming you, personally. I understood lots of this was personal views and I offered my personal views as well. So fan the flame if you want. I've said my peice and now you can ignore me if you'd like. --TJ