Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 15:19:29 -0400 From: Paul Mather <paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Technological advantages over Linux Message-ID: <782005A6-D264-4FFF-AADF-D238EE7F1595@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> In-Reply-To: <mailman.79.1595678403.7820.freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> References: <mailman.79.1595678403.7820.freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>
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On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 13:55:42 +0700, Victor Sudakov <vas@sibptus.ru> = wrote: > Message: 14 > Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 13:55:42 +0700 > From: Victor Sudakov <vas@sibptus.ru> > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Technological advantages over Linux > Message-ID: <20200725065542.GG92589@admin.sibptus.ru> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" >=20 > Dear Paul, >=20 > You have intrigued me. >=20 > Paul Mather wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> I also agree that this is a big disadvantage. Whenever I make my >> donation to the FreeBSD Foundation, and they ask in the donation form >> for comments on what you want them to work/focus on in the future, I >> always put a plug in for a native bhyve driver for docker-machine. >=20 > What would be run by the docker-machine in bhyve? Basically, it would be the same thing you would run when you use = docker-machine with the VirtualBox plugin: some sort of minimal shim = Linux distribution (akin to boot2docker or whatever is used nowadays). >> This would go some way to putting it on a par with Docker under = macOS, >> which uses HyperKit to interface with the built-in hypervisor under >> macOS (which is based on bhyve). MacOS is considered a "first class >> citizen" under the Docker ecosystem, or at least has great support = via >> Docker Desktop. >=20 > What does MacOS run in its hypervisor by the docker-machine? Some = linux > flavor? It does not have a native docker server, does it? Yes, AFAIK, macOS does not have a native Docker engine: it runs a small = Linux shim. As the Docker Desktop for Mac page = (https://hub.docker.com/editions/community/docker-ce-desktop-mac) puts = it, it features, "Fast and reliable performance with native macOS = virtualization running a custom minimal Linux distro." Bhyve =3D native FreeBSD virtualisation. >> Last I looked, FreeBSD only supported VirtualBox with >> docker-machine. It would be great to have native bhyve support. >=20 > I agree. It would only be a small step forward, but an improvement. Right now, = if you want to run Docker hosts on FreeBSD you typically have to use = docker-machine with VirtualBox. Having a bhyve docker-machine plugin = would let you run Docker hosts via bhyve, which is now a native FreeBSD = technology. You wouldn't have to install the VirtualBox port, with the = various headaches that brings involving keeping that port's kernel = modules in sync with the installed kernel. Docker is very well integrated with macOS via HyperKit/xhyve. A similar = approach should be possible under FreeBSD---probably not all the GUI = integration, but at least for the Docker hosts. As I keep saying, this = strikes me as a support limitation, not a technical limitation when it = comes to FreeBSD. :-) > But I thought, perhaps with the Linux binary compatibility, we could > avoid running a Linux in bhyve? The original sysutils/docker-freebsd achieved just that. It relied on = FreeBSD's Linux compatibility to run Linux Docker images directly. I = believe problems with completeness of the Linux emulation, but, more so, = the lack of maintainers/support for the port meant it fell behind and = ultimately was deleted. > Or can we convince Docker to start supporting jails (just a dream)? It's not so strange. There was some movement towards implementing the = open container specification for FreeBSD a while ago, e.g., Jetpack = (https://github.com/3ofcoins/jetpack) and runc = (https://github.com/clovertrail/runc/tree/1501-SupportOnFreeBSD). = Jetpack (more inspired by rkt I believe) even uses jails as its = isolation mechanism. Unfortunately, these projects appear to have become inactive, but I = guess they point to what is possible given the will and resources. Native Docker containers under FreeBSD is not such a strange notion. = It's my impression that native Docker containers under Windows is quite = a thing now. :-) Cheers, Paul.=
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