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Date:      Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:19:46 -0800
From:      Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com>
To:        Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk <roy@karlsbakk.net>
Cc:        Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@ofug.org>, Thomas Hurst <tom.hurst@clara.net>, hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD?
Message-ID:  <3C703A92.2EBD3E67@mindspring.com>
References:  <Pine.LNX.4.30.0202171935060.6486-100000@mustard.heime.net>

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Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk wrote:
> > > > sendfile() isn't zero-copy, it's just two-less-copies.
> > > zero-copy means "zero copy-operations within memory"
> >
> > To an MCSE, maybe.
> 
> strange ...
> 
> It's interesting that Dr. Scient Paal Halvorsen that recently finished his
> thesis about the subject 'Memory buffering / caching in multimedia
> streaming systems'. This has the following description
> 
> The INSTANCE operating system enhancements show great improvements for
> multimedia streaming. In this thesis, we want to look at
> buffering/caching/prefetching mechanisms suitable for multimedia streams
> combined with the INSTANCE zero-copy data path.
> 
> See http://www.ifi.uio.no/~paalh/index2.html for more info
> 
> hm
> 
> Am I an idiot here or have someone else misunderstood?

First, the URL reference you give is bad; it's one of
those terrible web pages that has a stupid frame that
prevents you getting the real URL.  The publications
URL is:

	http://www.ifi.uio.no/~paalh/publications/

Second, there's no publication there with this title; the
closest one is where he's the junior name on the paper:
"Evaluation of a Zero-Copy Protocol Implementation".

Third, this paper is bases on the idea that data is being
replicated in main memory in lots of places; that doesn't
really happen on FreeBSD, which uses a unified VM and
buffer cache.

Fourth, I think the reason he made the joke about MSCE's
was that there are ways of doing true zero copy, using
DMA directly between devices.  There are a couple of
people that have done this by, for example, rewriting
the Tigon II firmware to permit page aligned buffers,
and DMA'ing directly between disk and ethernet controllers.

Technically, that's not zero copy, either, since there's
a copy on the disk, and one in some controller memory.

"Zero copy" usually means "zero unnecessary copies"; but
what someone thinks of as "necessary" is really based on
their bias towards an existing implementation.

8-).

-- Terry

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