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Date:      Sat, 04 Mar 2000 00:08:26 -0800
From:      Brent Rector <brent@talou.net>
To:        johnmpurser@home.com
Cc:        undo@cloud9.net, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit
Message-ID:  <38C0C47A.D12688E0@talou.net>
References:  <000001bf8589$7b0b11c0$40390918@vncvr1.wa.home.com>

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Good Day Everyone,

I personally agree that questions about installation and technical
aspects of FreeBSD should be directed to the questions@freebsd.org list.

I enjoy the posts of the newbies who are telling people about thier
particular accomplishments, trials and tribulations.

As someone that was a complete newbie two years ago to FreeBSD and Unix
as a whole, I found the people that answered my questions on the
questions list to be very patient, informative... and without them I
would not be where I am today.

This list is for the "newbie" to share his/her experiences and
accomplishments are to chat about topics in relation to FreeBSD. I know
its a very fine line but you will find everyone on the questions list
very helpful... and moreso they have been where you are right now.. and
we understand.... so ask your questions and you will find responses
informative and helpful.

Sincerely

Brent L. Rector
SysAdmin
Talou Internet Services Corp.


John Purser wrote:
> 
> Andu,
> 
> On the surface, I'd agree with you.  I felt the same way when I first got
> shot down for asking questions on the newbies list.  However there are other
> concerns that the current policy supports.  The idea is that all questions
> are asked and hopefully answered in one forum.  This means the powers that
> be can monitor one list for problems and archive searches can be done on the
> same list to access all previous questions and answers.
> 
> At least that's my understanding.
> 
> I agree with you that as a newbie I'm pretty much just a bundle of
> unanswered questions.  If I can't ask them on newbies then what do I do
> there?  Answer: Not much.  Other newbies seem to have found out the same
> thing.  The only letters I know I've received from the newbies list is Sue's
> monthly letter on how to use the newbies list!
> 
> So subscribe to questions and any other lists you're interested in.  There
> are a lot of other newbies listening in so go ahead and express your
> ignorance and live with the consequences.  Somebody else will have asked a
> sillier question last week and I guarantee there's an even sillier one
> coming.
> 
> Like my next one for instance!
> 
> Have fun,
> 
> John Purser
> 
> Currently boycotting Amazon.com
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
> [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of andu
> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 5:46 PM
> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit
> 
> On Fri, 03 Mar 2000, Sue Blake wrote:
> 
> I'm sure this is meant to help and keep things in order but to me it sounds
> a
> little like over medication.
> A newbie asks questions to get something going, to
> have some motivation to go on.
> 
> > FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit
> >
> >    (This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list.
> >    It is also available at http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/)
> >
> >    FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about
> >    installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests
> >    are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions.
> >
> >    FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to
> >    questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies.
> >
> >    FreeBSD-Newbies provides a place for new FreeBSD users to meet and
> >    covers any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt
> >    with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on
> >    our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how
> >    to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to
> >    use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories,
> >    moral (but not technical) support, and taking an active part in the
> >    FreeBSD community.
> 
> I find it rather absurd to have a list where I can ask where I can ask for
> help.
> I asked my question, I got a good answer, others benefited too and that's
> the
> end of the story. I find it hard to believe that a FreeBsd beginner joins a
> list
> just to hang out with other newbies.
> 
> >We take our problems and support questions to
> >    freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are
> >    doing the same things that we do as newbies.
> >
> >    One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find
> >    help when we need it. Here are some suggestions:
> >
> > When something doesn't work the way you expect
> >
> >     1. First look at the errata for your release of FreeBSD at
> >        http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for the latest information and
> >        security advisories.
> >     2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at
> >        http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html
> >     3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of
> >        `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question
> >        to FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG.
> >
> > Mailing lists
> >
> >    When you have a problem that you can't solve by yourself, there's only
> >    one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG.
> >    FreeBSD-questions helps with installation and basic setup as well as
> >    more general and advanced questions.
> >
> >    You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a
> >    question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you
> >    personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and
> >    followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them
> >    different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to
> >    freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the
> >    recent questions and their answers.
> >
> >    Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at
> >    http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer
> >    FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when
> >    they get questions which are difficult to understand.
> >    http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too.
> >
> >    If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and
> >    ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to
> >    the support mailing list.
> >
> >    Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing
> >    list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html first you might
> >    get the answer right away. It's always worth trying.
> >
> >    Other mailing lists
> >    (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-CHARTERS)
> >    cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll
> >    need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's
> >    probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for
> >    advice about where to post a more specialised question.
> >
> >    FreeBSD-announce is a very low volume read-only list for occasional
> >    announcements, such as notice of new releases, and the Really Quick
> >    Newsletter. It's worth subscribing to FreeBSD-announce too.
> >
> > Manuals
> >
> >    You'll always be expected to show that you have made some effort to
> >    use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not
> >    always as easy as it sounds!
> >
> >    If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a
> >    brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need,
> >    always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you
> >    do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction.
> >
> >    Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is
> >    encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at
> >    http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/docproj.html
> >
> > Other resources
> >
> >    A resource list is available at
> >    http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html to help new and
> >    inexperienced FreeBSD users to find relevant information quickly. It
> >    includes books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web
> >    pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a
> >    suggestion for good material to be included, please write to
> >    freebsd-newbies and tell us about it.
> >
> > But I have seen people asking questions here!
> >
> >    It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a
> >    mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from
> >    time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't
> >    belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose
> >    job it is to sort these problems out privately.
> >
> >    The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It
> >    is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies
> >    so we all make mistakes. That's OK.
> >
> >    One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions,
> >    believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies,
> >    not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the
> >    situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to
> >    redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently.
> >    There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either.
> >
> >    So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions
> >    as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies
> >    can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on
> >    our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not
> >    allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the
> >    mistakes that we need to make in order to learn.
> 
> --
> Regards, Andu
> 
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