From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 6 15:47:02 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D234EB98 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2013 15:47:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9517629BF for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2013 15:47:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id wo10so3683361obc.27 for ; Fri, 06 Sep 2013 08:47:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to; bh=wl7EsAfFdXfSskSmnDmR1qL82/1p7SPXgrcjid2FPmM=; b=jo6v3eFOsgunp2eekTE3kG41fkkBii/jRnyCJ+Pkovv/XaZy7LiZ+iDwyYkjZxpSa4 CUaiz45EEA4Z1IMZsh2Y0tsoHWJBBD7dg7Sh6aCcGipYFrtS4k6JGYqabSM0ng6Kl7m5 oOJ16aE+D9YmUzG1BgC9Ml2vnWGP/6PdXamJhi9hTU1bXl9bvXfS+vhRQtcAmsrQDGMk hy0VNYRmTL0dtaHgAVuntaLWp7+eTQl/LDTt9OIJz5YpgWvP0VUD/V4Ml07afmVfrmbs eAIJc7SMbkmFpbEedz/r49wLBEhXsIdCvAbcz2/ileUXCJtIMrSjk1JsgFjUg4ojsGcE BYDA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnCzfWWNyKvQvBe2AnGGpZr9Mx/ysb3aPtjkL1XmBMi7ueeUJcfIUvs7kBPm8PayPeCm6tn X-Received: by 10.182.104.130 with SMTP id ge2mr2372398obb.6.1378482421526; Fri, 06 Sep 2013 08:47:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from monkey-bot.int.fusionio.com ([209.117.142.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id b5sm2907899obj.8.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 06 Sep 2013 08:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Subject: Re: random(4) plugin infrastructure for mulitple RNG in a modular fashion Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <0ABD5A7F-D647-4958-92DB-79D277C9AE7C@grondar.org> Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 09:46:57 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20130816002625.GE76666@x96.org> <9B274F48-0C88-4117-BEAC-1A555772A3C5@grondar.org> <86a9kf733d.fsf@nine.des.no> <0C97B866-A169-4141-8368-AA7F5B5382F4@grondar.org> <861u5r71zi.fsf@nine.des.no> <892B11BD-396D-4F82-B97C-753F72CA494D@grondar.org> <86r4dr5j3p.fsf@nine.des.no> <4C1BD77C-8C6B-4044-9285-5978A3BC4B70@kientzle.com> <537622E1-F785-4BFA-B829-09DCDB484606@grondar.org> <932AB5CA-778E-438D-8FD3-8C0F29F3D117@kientzle.com> <20130823231808.GT94127@funkthat.com> <0ABD5A7F-D647-4958-92DB-79D277C9AE7C@grondar.org> To: Mark R V Murray X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Cc: FreeBSD Security Team , FreeBSD-arch Arch X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2013 15:47:02 -0000 On Aug 24, 2013, at 2:35 AM, Mark R V Murray wrote: >=20 > On 24 Aug 2013, at 00:18, John-Mark Gurney wrote: >=20 >> Tim Kientzle wrote this message on Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 12:27 -0700: >>> But clearly some people really want to be able to >>> force /dev/random to be the unconditioned output >>> of a particular HW RNG. I don't know if this is a >>> good idea or not, but clearly there are people who >>> want this. >>=20 >> Considering that the Ivy bridge's rdrand implementation already uses >> AES to condition the raw entropy source, using Yarrow/etc to >> additionally condition it seems excesive, hence why some people want >> to use it directly=85 >=20 > Nehemiah as well, using a Davies-meyer hash in software. However, what > may be excessive for one person may be another's requirement. Especially in light of the recent NSA revelations... I for one won't = trust hardware random number generation... I find it interesting that earlier in the thread there was a desire by a = certain router company to fulfill the NSA's requirement that it use the = random number stream from the intel chips directly, and that's what = kicked off this overly long thread. Warner