From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 9 20:28:31 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C9AD156C928 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 20:28:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from karl@denninger.net) Received: from colo1.denninger.net (colo1.denninger.net [104.236.120.189]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8489080860 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 20:28:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from karl@denninger.net) Received: from denninger.net (ip68-1-57-197.pn.at.cox.net [68.1.57.197]) by colo1.denninger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ECAD211083 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 16:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.10.26] (D16.Denninger.Net [192.168.10.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by denninger.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9A9CC8E33 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 15:27:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Concern: ZFS Mirror issues (12.STABLE and firmware 19 .v. 20) To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: From: Karl Denninger Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=karl@denninger.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFIX1zsBEADRcJfsQUl9oFeoMfLPJ1kql+3sIaYx0MfJAUhV9LnbWxr0fsWCskM1O4cV tHm5dqPkuPM4Ztc0jLotD1i9ubWvCHOlkLGxFOL+pFbjA+XZ7VKsC/xWmhMwJ3cM8HavK2OV SzEWQ/AEYtMi04IzGSwsxh/5/5R0mPHrsIomV5SbuiI0vjLuDj7fo6146AABI1ULzge4hBYW i/SHrqUrLORmUNBs6bxek79/B0Dzk5cIktD3LOfbT9EAa5J/osVkstMBhToJgQttaMIGv8SG CzpR/HwEokE+7DP+k2mLHnLj6H3kfugOF9pJH8Za4yFmw//s9cPXV8WwtZ2SKfVzn1unpKqf wmJ1PwJoom/d4fGvQDkgkGKRa6RGC6tPmXnqnx+YX4iCOdFfbP8L9rmk2sewDDVzHDU3I3ZZ 8hFIjMYM/QXXYszRatK0LCV0QPZuF7LCf4uQVKw1/oyJInsnH7+6a3c0h21x+CmSja9QJ+y0 yzgEN/nM89d6YTakfR+1xkYgodVmMy/bS8kmXbUUZG/CyeqCqc95RUySjKT2ECrf9GhhoQkl +D8n2MsrAUSMGB4GQSN+TIq9OBTpNuvATGSRuF9wnQcs1iSry+JNCpfRTyWp83uCNApe6oHU EET4Et6KDO3AvjvBMAX0TInTRGW2SQlJMuFKpc7Dg7tHK8zzqQARAQABtCNLYXJsIERlbm5p bmdlciA8a2FybEBkZW5uaW5nZXIubmV0PokCPAQTAQIAJgUCUhfXOwIbIwUJCWYBgAYLCQgH AwIEFQIIAwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEG6/sivc5s0PLxQP/i6x/QFx9G4Cw7C+LthhLXIm7NSH AtNbz2UjySEx2qkoQQjtsK6mcpEEaky4ky6t8gz0/SifIfJmSmyAx0UhUQ0WBv1vAXwtNrQQ jJd9Bj6l4c2083WaXyHPjt2u2Na6YFowyb4SaQb83hu/Zs25vkPQYJVVE0JX409MFVPUa6E3 zFbd1OTr3T4yNUy4gNeQZfzDqDS8slbIks2sXeoJrZ6qqXVI0ionoivOlaN4T6Q0UYyXtigj dQvvhMt0aNowKFjRqrmSDRpdz+o6yg7Mp7qEZ1V6EZk8KqQTH6htpCTQ8i79ttK4LG6bstSF Re6Fwq52nbrcANrcdmtZXqjo+SGbUqJ8b1ggrxAsJ5MEhRh2peKrCgI/TjQo+ZxfnqEoR4AI 46Cyiz+/lcVvlvmf2iPifS3EEdaH3Itfwt7MxFm6mQORYs6skHDw3tOYB2/AdCW6eRVYs2hB RMAG4uwApZfZDKgRoE95PJmQjeTBiGmRPcsQZtNESe7I7EjHtCDLwtJqvD4HkDDQwpzreT6W XkyIJ7ns7zDfA1E+AQhFR6rsTFGgQZRZKsVeov3SbhYKkCnVDCvb/PKQCAGkSZM9SvYG5Yax 8CMry3AefKktf9fqBFg8pWqtVxDwJr56dhi0GHXRu3jVI995rMGo1fLUG5fSxiZ8L5sAtokh 9WFmQpyl Message-ID: <9a96b1b5-9337-fcae-1a2a-69d7bb24a5b3@denninger.net> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2019 15:27:57 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-512; boundary="------------ms080500070903000806050602" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8489080860 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.55 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: px.denninger.net]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.965,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14061, ipnet:104.236.64.0/18, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[197.57.1.68.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.985,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; SIGNED_SMIME(-2.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-2.39)[ip: (-9.88), ipnet: 104.236.64.0/18(-3.76), asn: 14061(1.76), country: US(-0.06)]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[denninger.net]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[] X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 20:28:31 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms080500070903000806050602 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 4/9/2019 15:04, Andriy Gapon wrote: > On 09/04/2019 22:01, Karl Denninger wrote: >> the resilver JUST COMPLETED with no errors which means the ENTIRE DISK= 'S >> IN USE AREA was examined, compared, and blocks not on the "new member"= >> or changed copied over. > I think that that's not entirely correct. > ZFS maintains something called DTL, a dirty-time log, for a missing / o= fflined / > removed device. When the device re-appears and gets resilvered, ZFS wa= lks only > those blocks that were born within the TXG range(s) when the device was= missing. > > In any case, I do not have an explanation for what you are seeing. That implies something much more-serious could be wrong such as given enough time -- a week, say -- that the DTL marker is incorrect and some TXGs that were in fact changed since the OFFLINE are not walked through and synchronized.=C2=A0 That would explain why it gets caught by a scrub = -- the resilver is in fact not actually copying all the blocks that got changed and so when you scrub the blocks are not identical.=C2=A0 Assumin= g the detached disk is consistent that's not catastrophically bad IF CAUGHT; where you'd get screwed HARD is in the situation where (for example) you had a 2-unit mirror, detached one, re-attached it, resilver says all is well, there is no scrub performed and then the *non-detached* disk fails before there is a scrub.=C2=A0 In that case you= will have permanently destroyed or corrupted data since the other disk is allegedly consistent but there are blocks *missing* that were never copied over. Again this just showed up on 12.x; it definitely was *not* at issue in 11.1 at all.=C2=A0 I never ran 11.2 in production for a material amount o= f time (I went from 11.1 to 12.0 STABLE after the IPv6 fixes were posted to 12.x) so I don't know if it is in play on 11.2 or not. I'll see if it shows up again with 20.00.07.00 card firmware. Of note I cannot reproduce this on my test box with EITHER 19.00.00.00 or 20.00.07.00 firmware when I set up a 3-unit mirror, offline one, make a crap-ton of changes, offline the second and reattach the third (in effect mirroring the "take one to the vault" thing) with a couple of hours elapsed time and a synthetic (e.g. "dd if=3D/dev/random of=3Doutfil= e bs=3D1m" sort of thing) "make me some new data that has to be resilvered"= workload.=C2=A0 I don't know if that's because I need more entropy in the= filesystem than I can reasonably generate this way (e.g. more fragmentation of files, etc) or whether it's a time-based issue (e.g. something's wrong with the DTL/TXG thing as you note above in terms of how it functions and it only happens if the time elapsed causes something to be subject to a rollover or similar problem.)=C2=A0 I spent quite a lot of time trying to make reproduce the issue on my "sandbox" machine and was unable -- and of note it is never a large quantity of data that is impacted, it's usually only a couple of dozen checksums that show as bad and fixed.=C2=A0 Of note it's also never just = one; if there was a single random hit on a data block due to ordinary bitrot sort of issues I'd expect only one checksum to be bad.=C2=A0 But generati= ng a realistic synthetic workload over the amount of time involved on a sandbox is not trivial at all; the system on which this is now happening handles a lot of email and routine processing of various sorts including a fair bit of database activity associated with network monitoring and statistical analysis. I'm assuming that using "offline" as a means to do this hasn't become "invalid" as something that's considered "ok" as a means of doing this sort of thing.... it certainly has worked perfectly well for a very long time! --=20 Karl Denninger karl@denninger.net /The Market Ticker/ /[S/MIME encrypted email preferred]/ --------------ms080500070903000806050602 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgMFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC DdgwggagMIIEiKADAgECAhMA5EiKghDOXrvfxYxjITXYDdhIMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMIGL MQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzEQMA4GA1UECAwHRmxvcmlkYTESMBAGA1UEBwwJTmljZXZpbGxlMRkw FwYDVQQKDBBDdWRhIFN5c3RlbXMgTExDMRgwFgYDVQQLDA9DdWRhIFN5c3RlbXMgQ0ExITAf BgNVBAMMGEN1ZGEgU3lzdGVtcyBMTEMgMjAxNyBDQTAeFw0xNzA4MTcxNjQyMTdaFw0yNzA4 MTUxNjQyMTdaMHsxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRAwDgYDVQQIDAdGbG9yaWRhMRkwFwYDVQQKDBBD 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