From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Feb 12 18:22:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E08B3106564A for ; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 18:22:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cswiger@mac.com) Received: from asmtpout029.mac.com (asmtpout029.mac.com [17.148.16.104]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1BB88FC0C for ; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 18:22:35 +0000 (UTC) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Received: from [10.1.2.182] (unknown [173.200.187.194]) by asmtp029.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-23.01 (7.0.4.23.0) 64bit (built Aug 10 2011)) with ESMTPSA id <0LZA00MD2LPMEI40@asmtp029.mac.com> for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:22:35 -0800 (PST) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7361,1.0.260,0.0.0000 definitions=2012-02-12_07:2012-02-10, 2012-02-12, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=6.0.2-1012030000 definitions=main-1202120167 From: Chuck Swiger In-reply-to: Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:22:33 -0800 Message-id: <60F4612D-96A5-4702-99A2-99E8102C373E@mac.com> References: <4F34FA17.7080000@quip.cz> <20120210133629.Horde.uDX6B5jmRSRPNQ9NDdkRUI4@webmail.leidinger.net> <201202102037.30996.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> <20120211080731.GD85504@goofy01.vnodelab.local> <3A8C8AA5-94A7-44C2-81BD-F348DAC4521A@mac.com> To: Chris Rees , Gonzalo Nemmi X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Enhancing the user experience with tcsh X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 18:22:36 -0000 On Feb 12, 2012, at 9:16 AM, Chris Rees wrote: > So do I, but would these hurt you? At the present time, no. (At one point, I was using a keyboard where the arrow keys generated "ESC-[ 1 ~" through "4", IIRC, but I haven't been on console on it in some time.) > I think it's insane that by default the standard keys don't work. What "standard keys" would those be? Folks, assuming that everyone uses IBM-AT derived American QUERTY layout keyboard is faulty. Our German friends are more likely to use a QUERTZ layout, French/Benelux tend to use AZERTY, and non ISO-Latin-1 languages like Russian and the asian languages have still other layouts. On the non-laptop keyboard I use most, which does have a QUERTY layout, but it does not have an "Insert" key; that key is the function key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_iMac_Keyboard_A1243.png [1] On other non-American keyboards, the "Insert" key is labelled "Help", and generated 0xF5 ("F1" + Meta/set-high-bit?). Regards, -- -Chuck [1]: Which is decent, but not perfect. I'd swap ESC and "`~", and caps-lock with control, and that would IMO be the perfect layout. For obvious reasons, I don't recall ever using or needing to use the function key. Even when on a Windows box, I wouldn't typically use the middle-upper 6-key Ins/DEL/etc block; I touch-type and my hands don't like to leave home row. (On the other hand, I do change volume and screen brightness daily, and even eject audio CDs more than I need Fn. I'm just as happy to not need to do these things via two key-presses...) PS: Folks, all of the above discussion, which includes my preferences, is aside from my main point, which is that proposed changes should first land as examples. Far too much of what people consider obvious improvements not only do not apply everywhere, they sometimes *don't* *work* and break things.