From owner-cvs-all Thu Sep 13 8:10:51 2001 Delivered-To: cvs-all@freebsd.org Received: from mailgate.originative.co.uk (mailgate.originative.co.uk [62.232.68.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C606F37B40F; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:10:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lobster.originative.co.uk (lobster [62.232.68.81]) by mailgate.originative.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3A8D1D162; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:10:38 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:10:39 +0100 From: Paul Richards To: Will Andrews Cc: Warner Losh , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/pccard pccard.c pcic.c pcic_pci.c pcicvar.h Message-ID: <57650000.1000393838@lobster.originative.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <20010913073210.X30764@curie.physics.purdue.edu> References: <200109130826.f8D8QtY18779@freefall.freebsd.org> <1121080000.1000369966@lobster.originative.co.uk> <20010913073210.X30764@curie.physics.purdue.edu> X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.1.0 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --On Thursday, September 13, 2001 07:32:10 -0500 Will Andrews wrote: > On Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 09:32:46AM +0100, Paul Richards > (paul@freebsd-services.com) wrote: >> Can we try and restore a sense of professionalism to the commit logs. >> There's been a growing trend to treat them like a chat list. > > I am not your company's hired hacker. I am a human being that > wants to show his humor, ability, and expressiveness. Just > because we create a professional operating system doesn't mean we > can't have fun while we are at it! :-) Totally agreed. The operating system includes the cvs logs though so a "professional operating system" includes "professional cvs logs". Do we want to continue to create an operating system that can stand up and compete against Solaris, OS X, AIX, Linux and Windows or has FreeBSD become a playground for hackers to have fun in? We certainly started out nearly 10 years ago with the intent of creating a best of breed project. Lately that attitude seems to have changed and the project now has more of a feel of hobby OS for people to play with in their spare time. We still had a lot of fun when we were "serious" about the work, having fun doesn't require that we treat the project as something to mess around with. One of the pleasures of working on FreeBSD was that it provided an opportunity to work on a project that wanted to do things "right" and was free from the commercial pressures to cut corners. This attitude has also been lost. The attitude that seems much more prevalent know is that FreeBSD is something to hack on for fun and *not* have to worry about the issues that you have to be concerned with in work or in class, such as thorough testing/release engineering, backwards compatibility and all the difficult issues that are hard work rather than fun. I think this may be part of the reason that significant research is not taking place on FreeBSD. The project just doesn't look "serious" enough for the research community to use it as a basis for work (that and a lack of stability of the codebase which is essential for comparitive analysis). It's also resulting in a drop off of respect amongst the silent majority of consultants/sysadmins out there who started using FreeBSD because it appeared to be the most professional project. There's been feedback in the UK from people that are saying they are dissappointed with the direction the project is going, it doesn't provide the quality assurances that it once did. Doing correct software development doesn't mean having no fun but in comparison to the Apache/Postgresql/Perl6 projects which I follow this community has become by far the most ameteurish in it's behaviour. Paul Richards FreeBSD Services Ltd http://www.freebsd-services.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe cvs-all" in the body of the message