From owner-freebsd-questions Tue Jan 22 19:35:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mail7.nc.rr.com (fe7.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7DA237B400; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 19:35:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from i8k.babbleon.org ([66.57.85.154]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:35:01 -0500 Received: by i8k.babbleon.org (Postfix, from userid 111) id 5C9E63EF9; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:34:07 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Brian T.Schellenberger To: Kris Kennaway , Bob Giesen Subject: Re: A question from a convert from Windows to FreeBSD Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:34:07 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3] Cc: Kris Kennaway , "Douglas R. Spindler" , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG References: <0ffe01c1a371$661d1b20$6600640a@attbi.com> <007b01c1a381$93765900$328dfea9@pegasus> <20020122161741.A7573@citusc17.usc.edu> In-Reply-To: <20020122161741.A7573@citusc17.usc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020123033407.5C9E63EF9@i8k.babbleon.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think that FreeBSD installation is quite straightforward if you start out by ordering the CD set. To compare an install of FreeBSD straight over the network to a CD-based install of Windows is preposterous; plus, an install of Windows is not that easy--I've had more failures than than with FreeBSD. To compare on install of FreeBSD to a PRE-installed Windows (all most folks ever see of Windows) is like cutting off one runner's legs and then complaining that he should be doing more to keep up . . . And of course the worse part is the slice/fdisk stuff, but if you just give the whole disk over, it's easy, and Windows fdisk is a lot harder to work with than FreeBSD's and provides even less assistance. So I don't think there's any apples-to-apples comparison by which FreeBSD comes out worse off . . . at least not in my experience. On Tuesday 22 January 2002 07:17 pm, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 02:15:33PM -0600, Bob Giesen wrote: > > > > Here's my question, why do you guys make converting so difficult? > > > > > > That's a very subjective question, wouldn't you say? > > > > Not very, no. I've been a computer junkie for 20 years (well, pretty > > soon -- I got my first one in Feb., 1981), have made a living at UNIX > > system administration, vocally advocate FreeBSD to any who will listen -- > > yet it is obvious to me why a recent convert from the dark side (a.k.a. > > micro$haft) would consider FreeBSD to be difficult to install. > > Objectively speaking (and I'm sure that it could be quantified in terms > > of time and keystrokes), there is not much of a comparison when it comes > > to ease of installation -- which is a major reason that FreeBSD > > installations number in the thousands, rather than millions. > > No, it is subjective, because for example when I first transferred to > FreeBSD a number of years ago I found the instructions very > straightforward. The fact that other people find them more confusing > is what makes it subjective, by definition. > > If we're comparing FreeBSD installations with Windows installations, I > spent the entire weekend (literally!) last week trying to install > Win98 on my K6-2/550 with quite standard hardware. Win98 would boot > from CD but refuse to load the ATAPI drivers to read the rest of the > CD; the Promise IDE controller wasn't detected out of the box, so I > had to transfer my HDs to the motherboard controllers in order to > install onto them once I got the CD media to work; the motherboard > needed me to download 4 drivers in order for it to work without > crashing; and my graphics card (Matrox dual-head G400) didn't work out > of the box, and still causes Windows 98 to BSOD at startup every 2 out > of 3 startups no matter what driver magic I've tried. Then Windows > Update suggested a new driver for my intel fxp ethernet card which > totally bodged it up, and I had to do major system file surgery to > recover a working driver and stop it from continually trying to > install the broken one. I had to disable power management because the > default settings cause the system to hang when it tries to suspend. > Then I found last night that the FAT16 partition I created using Win98 > FDISK was created right in the middle of my UFS partition which was > already on the disk. > > If I didn't have such expertise with Windows administration there is > no way in hell I'd have been able to get this thing running. I can > hardly think of more things which could have gone wrong with the > installation to have made it more difficult. > > By contrast, FreeBSD installed and runs on the same system without a > single hitch. > > > This is why: > > > Since FreeBSD is a community supported project... > > > > If unsophisticated users could easily install FreeBSD and a free > > office app (such as StarOffice or KDE) that would operate on all those > > m$office files in circulation, I think you'd see a lot more home offices > > with FreeBSD as the system of choice. After all, how many people > > wouldn't love to get something for free that will do all they really need > > of the topheavy m$office apps? > > > > [snip] > > These are all pretty good statements, but unless someone (you?) has > time to sit down and make these improvements they won't happen. > That's how it works around here, of course.. > > Kris -- Brian T. Schellenberger . . . . . . . bts@wnt.sas.com (work) Brian, the man from Babble-On . . . . bts@babbleon.org (personal) http://www.babbleon.org -------> Free Dmitry Sklyarov! (let him go home) <----------- http://www.eff.org http://www.programming-freedom.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message