From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 9 23:41:56 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D8481065671 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 23:41:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=f3dc634b5d6d05a41cec9c9d08babc83d465a512=635=es.net=oberman@es.net) Received: from postal1.es.net (postal1.es.net [IPv6:2001:400:14:3::6]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D46DA8FC16 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 23:41:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=f3dc634b5d6d05a41cec9c9d08babc83d465a512=635=es.net=oberman@es.net) Received: from ptavv.es.net (ptavv.es.net [198.128.4.29]) by postal1.es.net (Postal Node 1) with ESMTP (SSL) id PAY90551; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 15:41:51 -0800 Received: from ptavv.es.net (ptavv.es.net [127.0.0.1]) by ptavv.es.net (Tachyon Server) with ESMTP id CB8044500F; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 16:41:51 -0700 (PDT) To: JoaoBR In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:19:33 -0300." <200803062019.33435.joao@matik.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_1205106111_51045P"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 16:41:51 -0700 From: "Kevin Oberman" Message-Id: <20080309234151.CB8044500F@ptavv.es.net> X-Sender-IP: 198.128.4.29 X-Sender-Domain: es.net X-Recipent: ; ; ; X-Sender: X-To_Name: JoaoBR X-To_Domain: matik.com.br X-To: JoaoBR X-To_Email: joao@matik.com.br X-To_Alias: joao Cc: Peter Jeremy , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: INET6 -- and why I don't use it X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 23:41:56 -0000 --==_Exmh_1205106111_51045P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline > From: JoaoBR > Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 20:19:33 -0300 > > On Thursday 06 March 2008 16:24:08 Kevin Oberman wrote: > > > Agreed.  But at this stage I can't justify the effort to do anything > > > more than have a very cursory glance it at.  What benefit would I > > > derive from setting up an IPv6 network and attempting to experiment > > > with it?  My ISP won't support IPv6 and I'm reasonably certain my > > > cable-modem doesn't either so IPv6 connectivity would entail some > > > sort of tunnel. > > > > You don't set up an IPv6 network. You simply have end nodes that will > > use IPv6 when/if it is available by just making a one-line change in > > rc.conf as opposed to a kernel re-build. > > > > If you have a Windows Vista box (and I'm told several people do, even > > though I have never used one), it has IPv6, it is always enabled, and it > > REALLY, REALLY tries to use it using several mechanisms including Toredo > > tunnels (which are either very cool or the spawn of Satan, depending on > > who you talk to). > > eventually this few lines show why this thread goes so far ... > > your computer will or better CAN use ipv6 when it is on a ipv6 network and > nothing else, ipv6 WILL NOT come eventually available on your ipv4 network > (unless it's address space change ...) I'm unclear on the last sentence. I can assure you that IPv6 WILL come to your IPv4 network. It's not 'if' but 'when'. I am regularly amazed to see the number of people who bury their heads in the sand and claim it won't. > this has nothing to do with vista or dawn, this is a routing issue and > as long as you are NOT on a ipv6 network you do NOT need ipv6 on our > machine, still beeing able to access ipv6 networks ... as weel as ipv6 > networls can access ipv4 networlks guys, if not so all this ipv[4|6] > stuff wouldn't make any sense ... Whether you need to or not, you WILL have it if you run Vista. Read up on Teredo tunnels. You can turn this off on Vista, but it is on by default and every Vista system not configured to turn it off WILL run IPv6 regardless of what network it is connected to. Whether you need IPv6 is debatable. If you want to see the Kame dancing turtle, you will need IPv6. There are a very few specialized locations that are IPv6-only, but they are of little or no general interest. None the less, if you have Vista up and running or FreeBSD with the appropriate setup (6to4), your can reach them even if your network connection is IPv4 only. I'm afraid I couldn't parse the latter part of this paragraph. (Still, your English is far better than my Portuguese.) > as long as you talk in endpoints you also can access any rfc1918 address as > long as you have some setup (VPN?) for that, so what you say here is not > exactly true, either for windows nor for unix, the OS at the end has > absolutelty NOTHING to do with ipv6 neither with ipv4 ... > > so final point here is that you need ipv6 on your machine when you are > on a ipv6 network or want by any means connect directly to a remote > ipv6 endpoint, similare as you do a VPN connection to a rfc1918 > network wether this are tunnels or whatever provided by either satans > or daemons ... Please learn a bit about IPv6 and modern implementations of tunnels before making assertions about how networks have to work. FWIW, I run a full production IPv6 network and have been working with IPv6 since it was still being developed by the IETF. It's far from perfect and, in fact, I am quite disappointed on how it came out, but it is what it is and, as of today, it is the only game in town that can move us to beyond the end of IPv4 address space availability. Live with it or live in the expensive past. (IPv4 addresses will soon get very expensive as the supply runs out.) -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: oberman@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 --==_Exmh_1205106111_51045P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (FreeBSD) Comment: Exmh version 2.5 06/03/2002 iD8DBQFH1HW/kn3rs5h7N1ERAkbnAKCuhfbAbilAqyItMVo5LVUy2YIADACeKFWI Qw0BbDibfa9T1p8DaCKe91s= =EkOk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==_Exmh_1205106111_51045P--