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Date:      Sun, 28 Jun 1998 20:43:28 -0400 (EDT)
From:      Tim Vanderhoek <hoek@hwcn.org>
To:        Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
Cc:        Tim Vanderhoek <hoek@hwcn.org>, drifter@stratos.net, Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com>, fpawlak@execpc.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Does it's true?
Message-ID:  <Pine.GSO.3.96.980628203142.28316A-100000@james.hwcn.org>
In-Reply-To: <19980629010045.04155@follo.net>

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On Mon, 29 Jun 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote:

> Not true.  An infant has people that relate to it, even though they
> haven't met it yet.

Then doesn't it have (a) value just as you or me?


> > However, as you rightly point out, the argument about "potential" 
> > value in a pre-born infant is mostly null (unless you can
> > demonstrate that a particular pre-born was very genetically
> > predisposed to developing at some point in the future many strong
> > relationships with other humans).
> 
> Wrong in several ways - I included "relationship to self", and it can
> have relationships as per the description above.

I considered the "relationship to self", but decided its awfully
difficult to prove such a relationship when the person having
this relationship to self can't even speak, yet.  The criteria
"relationship to self" is very similar to "self-awareness", and
there is certainly hope of (dis)proving that at some point in
time, I don't think it's going to happen in the -chat mailing
list....  :-)

Regardless, you almost sound as if you're argueing against
abortion, now.  :)


> Of course :-) Human worth is a gradual process, much related to at
> which point we're conditioned to consider people to have it.  It get
> ridicilous almost no matter how you slice it, as we're just talking
> about an abstraction, a feeling.

I would suggest that some definitions are considerably cleaner,
in the same way a well-designed computer system is cleaner.


--
Outnumbered?  Maybe.  Outspoken?  Never!
tIM...HOEk


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