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Date:      Sun, 6 Jan 2019 20:09:54 +0100 (CET)
From:      Wojciech Puchar <wojtek@puchar.net>
To:        Alan Somers <asomers@freebsd.org>
Cc:        Wojciech Puchar <wojtek@puchar.net>, Cy Schubert <Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com>, Hackers freeBSD <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>, Igor Mozolevsky <igor@hybrid-lab.co.uk>, Enji Cooper <yaneurabeya@gmail.com>
Subject:   Re: Strategic Thinking (was: Re: Speculative: Rust for base system components)
Message-ID:  <alpine.BSF.2.20.1901062002230.54477@puchar.net>
In-Reply-To: <CAOtMX2hvB9p9WJ2rBw8QLgpm6tvv9VVRDLdTJ0J07XNTfT14DQ@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <201901051953.x05JrucZ071109@slippy.cwsent.com> <alpine.BSF.2.20.1901061929510.48074@puchar.net> <CAOtMX2hvB9p9WJ2rBw8QLgpm6tvv9VVRDLdTJ0J07XNTfT14DQ@mail.gmail.com>

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>> why this "microservices" - which are simply complete programs without
>> dependencies (or should be) - cannot be run simply as processes on
>> different user accounts?
>
> Several reasons:
> 1) Separate accounts don't provide as much security as separate
> containers.  Capsicum does, but people aren't used to using Capsicum

I use separate processes and don't feel the lack of security. I don't use 
capsicum too.

Could you explain it more precisely why standard process and user/group 
separation is insufficient?

Simply access rights and setting
security.bsd.see_other_uids=0

is enough for me.

If something could be added then it would be limiting what ports can each 
user open. But it's not really a problem.

> 2) Fragmentation.  The Linux world is much more fragmented than the
> FreeBSD world.  It's hard to write a program that will work correctly

That's what i agree with you.

Anyway if these microservices would be statically linked this argument 
would be irrevelant. And from what i've read it's how microservices should 
be made.

> 3) Fashion.  You may not care about the latest IT craze, but a lot of
> IT departments do.  And you can't change their minds all by yourself.

I don't even try to change their minds. I don't discuss with such people. 
You can discuss and present arguments to people that don't think.

> If FreeBSD is to be used by people who deploy microservices, then it
> needs to do what they want.  That means it needs Docker or something
> similar (IT admins won't want to learn ezjail if they're already
> comfortable with Docker), or we need to convince people to use
> CloudABI.  CloudABI has the potential to outperform containers.  It
> just hasn't gained traction yet.
> -Alan

Docker is already in ports. If someone want to use it - what a problem?

Anyway if they prefer linux let they use linux.



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