From owner-freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Wed Feb 26 21:21:50 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arm@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9C0F246058 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 21:21:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound3d.ore.mailhop.org (outbound3d.ore.mailhop.org [54.186.57.195]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48STJX5D6nz4Z0W for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 21:21:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1582752106; cv=none; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; b=HX5obmN5A1xZD077aAe19nlg/GMUviWU4xyL0sg0y5ZV6fxbjmMs7Ou75h796eB8qp7PvRBno/jzU Bz/txpBmnXkrRHFx+wesrCK7MSh9zgttdaZDVwQf3cWg1h67S8kTDYNDlsPMTVmz8EGFiRrOR8NxQH HgwQQKgHkX2ymwf/UYsr2aW4zcm3+BQ+0iNTbhrjJf1fxswAu8bO1te0TVKNx3H4hNApurNy/fE/m3 kyQBe+kMtdVr8OeczqY5iAMXd03E1P56gQGGiD/OIMP0ZEbC+lIPjruwKUfKiGFHRz3le1o8ipHs7C g4teHVDyo5hs2DRRPxr9jlCNn5JpZRw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:dkim-signature:from; bh=xr1cUHxJZawB8RJPDW2oJ+9t/RXLijFQ+NMBAxAXp+Q=; b=FlXdCoZM2WiaTTeM5HL7iyX1AhwoqkxybdXW61oRsfoL0B5/OcOYvpNcf9MatPy3HEXNaGzRNiGQB T6WVAmMk+WUSdKuuiS9muIgAq1N8nft5ufL0EERveEKAzXNGWhV4QfAet0s7YwcoT0bylTxgJ3k3s4 dyIlb5JOWa4h1cxXF+erOoM5pH5130qkA3zI+2wDfRCvA35O1+EZFS2YjzJydVVSU+6cEbrwNA/Hgg bNS2qn0wi5ZCZchidx0OyXTzQeX9AJKhw/YbZvn5fD9+dXV6lgCbTZmGYj7uImtUF8T2KYimpkrjPi AU1F2jAjcB9tA56r6mE9MATO4iAKglw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; outbound3.ore.mailhop.org; spf=softfail smtp.mailfrom=freebsd.org smtp.remote-ip=67.177.211.60; dmarc=none header.from=freebsd.org; arc=none header.oldest-pass=0; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=dkim-high; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:from; bh=xr1cUHxJZawB8RJPDW2oJ+9t/RXLijFQ+NMBAxAXp+Q=; b=Vfb7Q2ys6ovuKWh2GUogeOpMhA61mRN1IMRS0OsZIUxdWX9gysGhkoCMnfvaimO4ScvuUeScYs0Uh kPmJkoZQfML+EEzzAaAyZqBou7qBC6dZ/rUYJbAQrqDIf3CpuzkctRoYeKzRWGoJzbNObKzSnPre7R HBqTDlJMXgKZ8UaYRjTMpGicc0XCoICeiHapyecBTNaHGQGbHrio/ynahnMh9FTPwPKrw2vRBMT+12 vp7tDfzZONHYuTbLg+ewom6bbza+LgM9dHY7QmcuiHutfF2HUD1by348IzkeA6r2LX/nTXx/5nmQuI MsgvKIx+INpVRr/+UbHc2WcsrWy5YTg== X-MHO-RoutePath: aGlwcGll X-MHO-User: fce90514-58dd-11ea-b80e-052b4a66b6b2 X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 67.177.211.60 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (unknown [67.177.211.60]) by outbound3.ore.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id fce90514-58dd-11ea-b80e-052b4a66b6b2; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 21:21:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 01QLLhHN031860; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 14:21:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <49fce4489ba4aeb7a5638a6c1bbfb5e6a0b84312.camel@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Showstoppers for RPI3 From: Ian Lepore To: Paul Mather , freebsd-arm Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 14:21:43 -0700 In-Reply-To: <9AF20341-AFCC-46BE-A2F2-96CF01655983@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> References: <20200225175446.GA77976@www.zefox.net> <11951E01-EC13-4FBB-938A-AEB5700C4281@yahoo.com> <20200226052045.GA79939@www.zefox.net> <04e8e290e5d7bb810f76ece4ff33d6e1006e63cd.camel@freebsd.org> <9AF20341-AFCC-46BE-A2F2-96CF01655983@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.28.5 FreeBSD GNOME Team Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48STJX5D6nz4Z0W X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.96 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.96)[-0.962,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:54.186.0.0/15, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Porting FreeBSD to ARM processors." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 21:21:50 -0000 On Wed, 2020-02-26 at 15:41 -0500, Paul Mather wrote: > On Feb 26, 2020, at 10:33 AM, Ian Lepore wrote: > > > On Wed, 2020-02-26 at 06:32 +0100, Klaus Küchemann via freebsd-arm > > wrote: > > > But that´s the absolute joke of the century :-) that these issues > > > last so long here on the mailing list > > > > The current freebsd-arm devs keep pointing out that nobody is > > especially interested in maintaining or working on rpi* stuff at > > all. > > Why in the world would you be surprised that nobody is working on > > it? > > > > If you want to run freebsd on arm hardware, try using hardware that > > people are actually working to support. If you must use crappy rpi > > hardware, either run linux on it, or consider paying someone to do > > the > > freebsd support you need. Complaining that nobody will work for > > free > > on hardware they hate working on is just... > > complaining. Pointlessly. > > > All fair enough. I'm probably in the same boat as Bob Prohaska > inasmuch as I have a couple of Raspberry Pi devices of varying > vintages hanging around. I'm a longtime FreeBSD user, so, naturally, > I prefer to run FreeBSD on these devices, and have done so for a > while (with varying degrees of success/stability). > > It sounds from the above I shouldn't bother, for pain and misery will > attend me all my days as a result. :-) > > If Raspberry Pi is a crappy platform and a bad choice to use, > FreeBSD-wise, what is the suggested alternative in the same low- > power/low-price (and Raspberry Pi-like spec) arena? Is it the Pine64 > stuff like the PINE A64, ROCK64, and ROCKPro64?? > > I'm willing to buy something other than Raspberry Pi (I have a > BeagleBone Black, for example), but I don't want to buy something > that is derided and despised by FreeBSD developers and avoided by > them like the plague. I am not an ARM/SoC or electronics expert, so > I feel unqualified to know what is a "crappy ARM platform." > > Also, if the true situation with Raspberry Pi is that it is unlikely > to see development within FreeBSD, it would be more honest to > deprecate the platform officially on the FreeBSD site. I'd even go > so far as to suggest not to distribute official images for it, as > that carries with it a hint of blessing and support. > > Cheers, > > Paul. It really is pretty specific to the rpi family, for a pair of reasons: - The hardware is just crappy, buggy, limited, hard to work with. - Documentation needed to write device drivers is not openly available, and getting an NDA in place with broadcom never seems to happen despite people over the years saying they would work to make it happen. For inexpensive low-power boards... For the 32-bit world, the Allwinnner hardware is probably best supported, with imx6 a close second. For 64-bit I'd say it's the rockpro stuff. -- Ian