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Date:      Wed, 9 May 2001 12:57:04 -0400
From:      Jim Mock <>
To:        Sue Blake <>, doc@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: FreeBSD Docs
Message-ID:  <>
In-Reply-To: <>; from on Wed, May 09, 2001 at 08:57:10AM +1000
References:  <000201c0d7e5$a357d960$> <> <002001c0d7f6$6e495440$> <> <>

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On Wed, 09 May 2001 at 08:57:10 +1000, Sue Blake wrote:
> On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 06:36:12PM -0400, Jim Mock wrote:
> > On Tue, 08 May 2001 at 15:37:36 -0400, Michael Shafer wrote:
> > > > > Has the documentation been moved perhaps?
> > > >
> > > > If you had actually read the 300+ other messages asking the same
> > > > question you'd know what was going on.
> > > 
> > > Good master,
> > > 
> > > Even I, lowly grasshopper,  knows that presumption is at the root
> > > of arrogance and dispair.
> > 
> > The next time you decide to try flaming me, it would probably help
> > if you actually kept me on the To: or Cc: lines ;-)
> Jim, you flamed first, and did so in public to a person who thought
> his email had been more private.

I wasn't going to reply to this, but since it was still bothering me
today, I figured I might as well.

I didn't intentionally flame him.  It's just that when the same question
is asked repeatedly by people who never even bothered to check a mirror
it tends to grind on my nerves.  "I didn't know the documentation was
mirrored" is not an acceptable excuse, because the *FIRST PAGE* of the
handbook, in the *FIRST PARAGRAPH* says this:

   It may also be downloaded in a variety of formats and compression
   options from the FreeBSD FTP server or one of the numerous mirror

Both "FreeBSD FTP server" and "mirror sites" are links.

> Both of your emails display lack of insight into the other person's
> experience, which still hasn't changed.  If you can't see a person's
> problems from their perspective, you shouldn't be giving advice, much
> less flaming. Go chew your toenails.

The point is there shouldn't have been a "problem" at all.  "Go chew
your toenails."  Wow, are you going to tell me to go to my room next?

> When we stuff up or change something we are going to see squillions of
> people one by one getting snagged as if it has never happened to
> anyone before. Your experience is not theirs. It is NOT THEIR FAULT.

Who's fault is it?  It's certainly not the documentation project's
fault -- the text is there... "or one of the numerous mirror sites".  It
even has a link to it.  Imagine that.  Apart from attaching a list of
mirrors to peoples' foreheads with a staple gun, what more can be done?
How is it our fault if they choose not to read what's available?

If these people have trouble reading *now*, before they've installed
FreeBSD, what the hell are they going to do if they actually manage to
install it?

> Live with it. Show a little insight and compassion or disappear from
> public view.

Heh, perhaps I will disappear.  I've busted my ass for this project for
the past few years, and frankly I'm sick of lazy people, who couldn't be
bothered to read what so many of us have spent a great deal of time
working on.  Perhaps your time would be better spent actually writing
documentation and contributing something tangible instead of spending
your time defending the lazy.

- jim

- jim mock <> - O|S|D|N - open source development network -
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