From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 6 11:12:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from guru.mired.org (okc-65-26-235-186.mmcable.com [65.26.235.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0297337B71B for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:12:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: (qmail 37332 invoked by uid 100); 6 Mar 2001 19:12:30 -0000 From: Mike Meyer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15013.13982.277528.57592@guru.mired.org> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:12:30 -0600 To: Robert Clark Cc: Wes Peters , Mike Meyer , Randell Jesup , Terry Lambert , Matt Dillon , Alfred Perlstein , josb@cncdsl.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DJBDNS vs. BIND In-Reply-To: <20010306103744.D45802@darkstar.gte.net> References: <200102200122.SAA04466@usr05.primenet.com> <3A934507.A0645CF3@softweyr.com> <15012.11507.801736.502035@guru.mired.org> <3AA4A110.5245FCD4@softweyr.com> <20010306103744.D45802@darkstar.gte.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.89 under 21.1 (patch 14) "Cuyahoga Valley" XEmacs Lucid X-face: "5Mnwy%?j>IIV\)A=):rjWL~NB2aH[}Yq8Z=u~vJ`"(,&SiLvbbz2W`;h9L,Yg`+vb1>RG% *h+%X^n0EZd>TM8_IB;a8F?(Fb"lw'IgCoyM.[Lg#r\ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Robert Clark types: > Have you seen any intelligent discussion of > the whole concept of whether to keep config info > in flat files, or to use a bindery/database? (Something > I could go read up on.) > I often wonder if a standardized api for > storing and retreiving config info would be a benefit > to *BSD. This came up as in that same discussion. It would almost certainly be a benefit to have a standardized API for config files. Note that this *is* a different question from the flat file/DBMs question. The standardize API doesn't have to talk things in a binary format. You could cram everything into S-expresisons, for instance. The question is whether or not you can make all the config files currently in use by FreeBSD comfortably fit through that API. For instance, there are a lot of tables (crontab, printcap, passwd, group, etc.) as well as some simple name/value pairs (rc.conf, etc.), as well as things that are simply lists of commands (your typical firewall config). This whole subject seems like an unimaginably > big can o worms. > > Even the staunchest advocates of the bindery/ > registry don't get it completely right. (as far as I've > seen anyway.) > > Thanks, [RC] > > > On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 01:34:24AM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > > Mike Meyer wrote: > > > > > > Randell Jesup types: > > > > Moved from -arch to -chat. > > > > Wes Peters writes: > > > > >We in the unix world have a well-founded aversion to storing configuration > > > > >information in binary data stores that can't be accessed via ed(1) when > > > > >the system is in single-user mode. If we wanted to stuff all the system > > > > >configuration into such a black hole, we could've done it with DBM data- > > > > >bases more than a decade ago, quite easily. > > > > > > Oddly enough, this exact suggestion - stuff all the configuration > > > information in a DBM - came up on a private list I'm no not long > > > ago. The suggestion came from someone very sharp, the goal being to > > > focus more talent on making the DBM fast. The problem Wes mentioned > > > prett much killed it at that point. > > > > > > > As someone said, vipw is a good counterexample. > > > > The above schemes do allow you to use ED (if you like) to edit > > > > configuration files. In one case it's totally free (even cp will work), in > > > > the other you have to use some sort of vipw thing to invoke the editor and > > > > make sure that the file is notified as changed (or integrate with the > > > > editor in some automatic or semi-automatic way). > > > > > > The critical issue isn't being able to use ed per se, it's working in > > > single user mode, with no file systems mounted and no daemons > > > running. How do your schemes deal with that requirement? > > > > Text-to-dbm converters still work fine in single user mode, as long as > > they're robust to handle not having a daemon to talk to. I even have one > > application that rips configuration information out of a PgSQL database > > and stuff it into a DBM database, on system startup and whenever the PgSQL > > table gets modified. > > > > Ick. > > > > -- > > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > > wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ > > > -- Mike Meyer http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message