Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 16:26:29 -0500 From: Carmel <carmel_ny@hotmail.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 'X' vs. 'Mouse' Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP2635402DE55FCB76A0BF1D938C0@phx.gbl>
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On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 08:48:36 -0700 (MST) Warren Block <wblock@wonkity.com> replied: >On Fri, 11 Dec 2009, Carmel wrote: > >> Honestly, did the 'X' developers go out of their way to break mouse, >> and to a lesser degree, keyboard support when upgrading? > >No, they were trying to upgrade a very old, static system (X11) to >support their users. One thing that had been lacking was any support >for hotplugging input devices. To implement that, they used HAL, >because basically it's the only thing available. Correct me if I am wrong; however, I believe I read that 'HAL' is dead. Further work on it is not going to happen. If that is correct, are we to expect another fiasco when its replacement comes online. >So now we have a combination of several unfortunate things: > >* Users are used to an X11 that has been unchanged for years. >* At the same time, xorg users and developers want new features. >* The only way to support some of the features is with new software, >and > HAL was the only thing out there that ran on multiple systems and > supported hotplug detection. >* HAL is totally unlike X and uses XML config files. >* Most xorg development takes place on Linux, where HAL is more common > than on FreeBSD. >* There are only a couple of FreeBSD developers actively working on >the huge > and complicated job of porting and supporting xorg. >* The first port of xorg-server with HAL support on FreeBSD had a bug. > The bug workaround is still being applied by users, long after the > bug was fixed, and sometimes--but not always!--it unfixes things. > >So add all this confusion together, and you end up where we are now. >I suspect it seems worse than it really is, since the current xorg >will run on a lot of systems without an xorg.conf at all. > >> This forum has been riddled with questions on why their hardware >> (mouse) has stopped working and how to get it working again. If >> Microsoft had pulled a bone-headed stunt like this, they would be >> chastised; however, hardly a word has been uttered regarding the >> poor choices made by the 'X' development team. > >The other side of that argument is that Microsoft has supported >hotplugging input devices for more than a decade. I have often wondered what the delay in developing hot-plugging in non-win32 systems was. Worse, HAL requiring the creation of of XML files sort of defeats the entire concept of 'plug & play'. >> I question whether they actually tested this product prior to >> releasing it. I have been following a few forums besides this one >> and they all report the same problem. I realize that 'HAL' has >> something to do with this situation also. Perhaps if all the >> concerned parties would get their acts together this sort of fiasco >> would not continually happen. > >You could go to the xorg mailing lists at freedesktop.org and set them >straight. They might cheerfully offer to refund your money. I think you are being overly glib regarding this problem. I stand by my original statement that the parties involved should have tested the final product more thoroughly. As a side note, I officiate youth league sport's programs in my spare time. I don't get paid either. Still, I would never do a crap job just because I was not being financially compensated for my efforts. >You could also offer to help development or testing, either to the >FreeBSD developers or xorg. I have beta tested applications in the past. I was not aware that Xorg was releasing beta products aimed at FreeBSD. I was under the impression that offerings from Xorg were only ported to FreeBSD after they were released to Linux users. >> It is really hard to push the merits of an operating system when you >> have to give detailed instructions to the potential end user on how >> to get a "mouse" to work, when all they have to do in a Win32 based >> system is plug it in. > >xorg is not FreeBSD, but if you're looking for an integrated GUI >operating system based on FreeBSD, PC-BSD seems to be well-regarded. I never meant to infer that FreeBSD == xorg. >> I really cannot fathom a seven year old having to modify >> an XML document to facilitate their playing a "How to Spell" CD, >> assuming that they could even get the CD operational. > >Normally you'd start by finding out whether they prefer vi or emacs. Absolutely; anything but OO. -- Jerry gesbbb@yahoo.com |::::======= |::::======= |=========== |=========== | If one cannot enjoy reading a book over and over again, there is no use in reading it at all. Oscar Wilde
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