From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 10 17:27:05 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 285BF16A403 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:27:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chrcoluk@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.186]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB65813C4A8 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:27:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chrcoluk@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id k27so564795nfc for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:27:03 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=orK+yu3VMN/1Iv1aQLTzjIYDXVNiz5fgQihRBbA76lEude6MhxT4urkR/GmFy8SqX6gKNE0VaDDgUynlPhzrEN9QGryIjl7UV8GjPjsEczS+Hy5/l6LKoBImR4KN+hdbBwbx67iuHqxrKKbcQdvOAMYNQJq/4hS6YKeHI2W8GVQ= Received: by 10.82.165.1 with SMTP id n1mr112271bue.1168448495432; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:01:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.82.135.17 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:01:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3aaaa3a0701100901j119e2566yf1718f140027f7d1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:01:35 +0000 From: Chris To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com In-Reply-To: <20070110161721.GA68022@mooseriver.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <45A2805E.7060000@ccstores.com> <20070109222558.GA75695@xor.obsecurity.org> <20070110003730.GA94711@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> <20070110154436.GA97702@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> <20070110161721.GA68022@mooseriver.com> Cc: Jerry McAllister , Nikolas Britton , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: is THIS why the 6.2 release seems stalled ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:27:05 -0000 On 10/01/07, Josef Grosch wrote: > On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 10:44:36AM -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 12:01:51AM -0600, Nikolas Britton wrote: > > > > > On 1/9/07, Jerry McAllister wrote: > > > > > > >FreeBSD is created and supported by volunteers. > > > >Seems like you just posted a nice list of things > > > >for you to get busy and contribute. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have time to contribute work, I have a business to manage as > > > well as other obligations that come first... I need this stuff to just > > > work... so I can get real things done. > > > > Yah, well the people doing it are also busy and working at things > > which are supposed to make them a living. Most make their > > FreeBSD contribution work on the side - in addition to their > > paying jobs although some are in the fortunate position of working > > for someone who recognizes it as also contributing to their > > productivity on the job. > > > > There are many ways to contribute. Not all are writing code. > > Some are in documentation and in other services. And, although > > it is a volunteer project, it does require money to support such > > things as servers and test machines and network access. > > > > So, if you cannot contribute time and effort and your business is > > so valuable, then consider contributing money - to support someone > > to work in the project, at least part time. > > > > If you only want to get something for nothing, then you live > > in the wrong world. > > > Hear, hear. > > Nikolas, there are many things that FreeBSD need, a large number of them do > not require programming. As a Christian here is a saying that I'm sure you > are familiar with, "It's better to light one candle than to curse the > darkness". So brother Nikolas, what candles have you lit today? You > certainly have produced a lot of smoke. > > One of the things you could have done instead of wasting your and our time > on this thrash is to sit down a write a detailed description of some of the > things you find lacking in FreeBSD. By detailed I mean a series of bullet > points that describe what is the problem, what you tried, what your setup > was, OS version, hardware configuration, etc. This would be a whole lot > more helpful than standing on a street corner and screaming, "FreeBSD is > FUCKED! Linux is taking over!" > > Many hands make lite work. Are you going to lend a hand or are you going to > stand on the sidelines and tell us how we are screwing up. If it is going > to be the latter please go away, we have more than our fair share of Monday > morning quarterbacks. > > > > Josef > > -- > Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 6.1 > jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | Berkeley, Ca. > > > What I think freebsd needs. 1 - To fix stuff that works in linux but goes to crap in freebsd, one such example is NFS. 2 - A better installer, this is probably the biggest single thing that puts people of freebsd, the less people using freebsd the less funds likely to be recieved. 3 - Better hardware compatability, freebsd has poor hardware support, worst then both linux and windows, one such example is realtek cards have no problems in windows and linux but do in freebsd, sata support is very poor as well. Often when people say anything the response is go out and buy premium hardware. 4 - Better attitude to bug fixing, not always possible to provide backtraces as such from remote servers but can tell the devs how to repeat problem so they can do on their own local machines. 5 - journaling filesystem. Ultimately I think freebsd is in real danger of losing its stable tag, more and more things are not stable on freebsd as they get ignored, some of the network drivers appear to be poorly maintained, and its lagging behind in the performance charts. All this considering it used to be ahead in the game is a sad state of affairs. Would I pay for freebsd? yes but in the right circumstances I fully understand its voluntary work in many cases but the worst it gets the less inclined people will be to pay. Chris