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[174.109.225.250]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n92sm3766520qtd.68.2020.05.09.03.25.26 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 09 May 2020 03:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (hp-envy.seibercom.net [192.168.0.102]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 49K3HT3hmBz1Xjv for ; Sat, 9 May 2020 06:25:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 06:25:17 -0400 From: Jerry To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Microsoft Teams for Linux Message-ID: <20200509062517.00002c46@seibercom.net> In-Reply-To: <20200509063222.94d762e9751a32c693d73d2f@sohara.org> References: <20200505093624.00001df2@seibercom.net> <223da1b3-a83d-b2e8-36dc-468dcb219305@suszko.eu> <20200508113438.00006adc@seibercom.net> <20200508185327.00007397@seibercom.net> <20200509063222.94d762e9751a32c693d73d2f@sohara.org> Reply-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.4 (GTK+ 2.24.32; i686-w64-mingw32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; boundary="Sig_/EsuYl6oSu0N71vr_ZmPpBTJ"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49K3HY0Mw2z4Yfp X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=seibercom.net header.s=google header.b=D5WUplMR; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jerry@seibercom.net designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::742 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jerry@seibercom.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.24 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[seibercom.net:+]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.16)[ip: (0.02), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[250.225.109.174.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_TO_ADDR(5.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[seibercom.net:s=google]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[seibercom.net]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2.4.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.32 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 May 2020 10:25:30 -0000 --Sig_/EsuYl6oSu0N71vr_ZmPpBTJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 9 May 2020 06:32:22 +0100, Steve O'Hara-Smith commented: >On Fri, 8 May 2020 18:53:27 -0400 >Jerry wrote: > >> Both "Zoom" and "MS Teams" are working fine in my Win10 machine. I >> have never tried to get them to work on FreeBSD, and I have no idea >> why I would want to. I don't have a linux machine handy, although >> that is on my "to-do" list. Perhaps by the end of this summer. =20 > > One good reason for wanting them working on Linux or FreeBSD is not > owning a Windows machine. I don't, so if I wished to use either of > those tools it seems I would need to buy one or try and get it to > work on something else. You seem to be under some preconceived notion that your need to 'own' a Windows or other OS machine. You could run the application(s) in a VM. It is becoming ubiquitous from what I have observed. > Standards compliance is usually a good way to make applications that > work well on all platforms but it does seem that some vendors that > prefer to break that in order to work around deficiencies in their > major market platforms. I am so sick and tired of a bunch of "Whiney Wieners" crying about standards. I mean, there are just so many standards. Just pick the one you like. After all, FreeBSD uses all the same standards and protocols as Linux and the assortment of other non-Microsoft operating systems, doesn't it; or does it? The ability to reinvent is at the core of your dislike of other systems. If it were not for the progress made in computing and thereby breaking "standards," or as I refer to them as "anchors," we would still be using telephone modems and slow ones at that. Heck, the Internet as we know it today would not even exist. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs spent fortunes on innovations and improvements to get us where we are today. They literally created new "standards." "Standards Compliance" is simply a tool used to stifle innovation. IEEE 802.11ac was ANSI approved 2013-12-11. FreeBSD still does not fully support it. By your logic, there should never have even been 'networking cards" developed; just stay with the old phone modem. The IEEE 802.11ax, marketed as Wi-Fi 6 by Wi-Fi Alliance, extends, you would say, "breaks" many of the 'standards' currently in "802.11ac". I'll bet that really pisses you off. Don't worry too much; it will be at least a decade before FreeBSD gets it working. I'm sure you believe the 'vendor' owes FreeBSD a driver for the product. After all, FreeBSD did contribute to the products development, did it not? > This is of course a valid (if irritating) commercial decision > with strong short term benefits (the application works great on the > major platforms). The downside being that there is no pressure to > adhere to standards so it won't work well on anything else and neither > can anyone get anything else to work as well on the major platforms. > This is of course not a downside for the application vendor - one > reason why OS vendors should not be allowed to sell applications IMHO, > but that boat sailed decades ago. One of the motives behind innovation is to create a new or improved market that will enhance the vendors' cash revenue. It is a circle. Vendor hired competent (usually) individuals to create or extend products that they (the vendor) can sell at a profit which they use to pay their employees. I know that concept is foreign to 'socialists', but it is how the real world works. If they were forced to adhere to some pseudo standard, innovation would never happen. Thank GOD we have people who can think for themselves and aren't slaves to outdated doctrine. Your ill-conceived idea that vendors should not be allowed to create and sell software for their OS is absurd. A vendor creates an OS and then writes applications to work on the OS. As the applications improve and, or public requests for newer features or products develop, the vendor improves, updates, or rewrites the underlying OS to support applications that the public wants or desires. It is a standard business cycle. It is the same way TV stations create programming, or Netflix revolutionized the streaming industry by creating its own programming. Using your logic, that should never have been allowed. I have a gas-powered car. Do I have the right to bitch at General Motors because it won't run on diesel? I think not. Microsoft has made an effort to port many of its products to Linux. They cannot be expected to port every product they have to every fringe OS available. Quite frankly, there is no money in it. Many software vendors supply their products in formats suitable for Linux. If you choose to be 'locked in' to an OS that these applications do not work on, it is your choice, not their problem. If you want to bitch about something, then complain to the authors of FreeBSD. They are the ones creating a system that does not support the features you want. Or try complaining to the open-source community. I can already tell you what their response will be, and I quote, "patches welcome." By the way, I have a new pc that I cannot even run FreeBSD 12.x on, even though 11.x works. See bug: . Since an older version works, but a newer one doesn't, it appears that someone (FreeBSD) broke a standard. Would you like to comment on that? I buy a screw driver, I don't expect it to drive in a nail. In your case, you want them to give you the screw driver. In either case, do either of us have the right to complain because it doesn't drive in a nail? You simply acquire the right tool for the job, or "patches welcome". --=20 Jerry --Sig_/EsuYl6oSu0N71vr_ZmPpBTJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEIQb/tTwl6I1ueEVtOHMGOIfexWQFAl62hQ0ACgkQOHMGOIfe xWSrVgf8CRHQMB5Nk1QjMMvZloy9A2L9pMk+g0p0yqK3hK4nxGUtth3KAeMaTt8e ndEU7mjOXllKvgl1nW+yQDpSdfs7rOzHwizRaxS4WpMn/Vp0hpUlP7G6stn+TkUb k3DiWyK5fUGTZdOK1A3L0yqJg6YPd8L+4hj34igrjb51WP0cUmqFrkTYfS50wNN7 x7X6moTnrgiN1loz6+XhH1O0ZthfVU6DVYfQAgcNr9P5h1xUjrHW8zaprITX7BXu aG6iQ24y0cKtV6lhPrZhwb0FHWq9jIE5/SVzXNuFjxH7Zi+Sk2UdVN5FB+vvvjx5 WnRCAr3mJfF1aPwXm1qpA8pfsx7Pww== =8nI4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/EsuYl6oSu0N71vr_ZmPpBTJ--