Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 19:26:34 +0000 From: Mark Ovens <mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org> To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com> Cc: Brooks Davis <brooks@one-eyed-alien.net>, James A Wilde <james.wilde@telia.com>, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Programmers' editor? Message-ID: <19991125192634.B316@marder-1> In-Reply-To: <19991124135521.44585@mojave.sitaranetworks.com> References: <Pine.BSF.4.21.9911231240360.4557-100000@fw.wintelcom.net> <00e101bf3681$44cb04a0$8c0aa8c0@hk.tbv.se> <19991124103253.B2554@orion.ac.hmc.edu> <19991124135521.44585@mojave.sitaranetworks.com>
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On Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 01:55:21PM -0500, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Wednesday, 24 November 1999 at 10:32:53 -0800, Brooks Davis wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 02:39:01PM +0100, James A Wilde wrote: > > > >> And I don't really think vi is crap. It's just that the only > >> thing less intuitive in its natural state than vi is probably > >> emacs. <ducks and moves out of the war zone> <grin>. > > > > You aren't going to get any argument from me there. ;-) > > OK, I've said my piece here, and I disagree entirely. But it's not > up to me; I've been using Emacs and similar editors for 20 years. A vi(1) user trying emacs(1) for the first time - http://www.ukug.freebsd.org/~mark/badday.mpg :) > The real question is: what do newbies think? Anybody want to > comment? OK, I'll comment. Since this emacs v. vi thing has reared it's head again I used emacs instead of vi all day today (I even renamed vi, and symlinked it to emacs to force myself). After the first couple of hours finding my way around (much use of C-h) I got quite productive with it. The biggest difference I had to adjust to was the fact that it doesn't have a command mode, any non Ctrl-, Meta-, Shift-, Esc- chars you type go into the document, but once I got used to that it wasn't so bad. One thing that I found puzzling is that several features that I would consider basic editing requirements, especially for coding, are very well hidden, for example: No apparent way to repeat the last command/editing action. ``goto-line'' doesn't have a default key-binding! When a compiler reports errors/warnings it gives the line number so being able to find it is essential (``<number>G'' in vi). Indenting is a big mystery. OK, when in C-mode it will auto-indent, but for non-code text it doesn't seem to work. This e-mail is done in emacs and indenting this paragraph and the one above I found impossible to do other than manually. The first line of each was started with a TAB but no way could I make emacs indent the subsequent lines to match (``:se ai'' will do it automatically in vi, and if you later edit it and mess it up then ``!}fmt'' will clean it up). I tried selecting the paragraph and then Edit->Fill, but all it did was split it into lines ~75 chars but only the first line was indented! (the ``goto-line'' paragraph above). Also, it's far from obvious how to change the indentation of a block of text, this paragraph for instance. In vi, just put the cursor on the first line and ``>}''. However, I will stick with it, practice makes perfect, or so they say :) Do you know of a "Emacs for vi users" guide do you (preferably on-line)? > Also, Brooks, have you *used* Emacs? Recently? If so, > I'd like to know what you consider non-intuitive. > > > Actually, if you're going to spend much time in UNIX, you should > > at least have basic proficiency with vi since it's always there > > and emacs may not be. > > There I agree entirely. I do use vi for exactly this reason. > > Greg > -- > When replying to this message, please copy the original recipients. > For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/questions.html > Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message -- PERL has been described as "the duct tape of the Internet" and "the Unix Swiss Army chainsaw" - Computer Shopper 12/99 ________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark/ mailto:mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
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