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Date:      Tue, 20 Nov 2001 13:38:16 -0800 (PST)
From:      Ken Bolingbroke <hacker@bolingbroke.com>
To:        Anthony Atkielski <anthony@atkielski.com>
Cc:        FreeBSD Questions <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   Re: home pc use
Message-ID:  <Pine.BSF.4.21.0111201314120.99724-100000@fremont.bolingbroke.com>
In-Reply-To: <00b401c17203$caba2630$0a00000a@atkielski.com>

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On Tue, 20 Nov 2001, Anthony Atkielski wrote:

> Ken writes:
> 
> > The problem I see is that you really haven't
> > tried enough to make such a determination.
> 
> I don't have to.  Statistically, there is no reason to suspect hardware unless
> and until everything else has been eliminated.

Did I mention hardware problems?  Personally, I'm inclined to suspect the
more likely culprit, which other people are too diplomatic to mention:  
User error.

Face it, countless people use KDE.  You're whining about all these bugs,
how it's not stable, etc.  Yet, all these other people, myself included,
are just using it.  So you couldn't get it to work...  Hardware fault?  
Driver bugs?  User error?  Take your pick.

But the fact is, your sweeping generalizations don't hold true beyond your
own limited experience in this case.


> > ... unlike Windows, where one or more application
> > crashes will take down the whole system.
> 
> Sounds like you've never run NT.  Applications can crash all day on my
> NT system, and it never blinks.

Gee, thanks for calling me a liar.  And you wonder why people aren't
falling over themselves to help you out of their own goodwill.

I've admin'd NT 3.51, 4.0 and 2000, in addition to using it for my
workplace desktop.  One of my current projects involves migrating a campus
into W2K's Active Directory.  Yes, I run it. Unfortunately.

Take the current pain-in-the-rear application I'm dealing with:  Altiris
LabExpert.  It hangs regularly, for which I fault Altiris, not Microsoft,
of course, but the big hassle is that W2K provides me no way to completely
kill it--even shutting down the process from the Task Manager doesn't free
up the network port it listens on, so it's necessary to reboot the server
to restart the application.

Yes, UNIX does deal with badly behaved applications better.


> > Contrast this to my Windows NT work desktop,
> > where I had to pre-emptively reboot at least
> > twice weekly so NT doesn't crap out on me in
> > the middle of whatever work I'm doing ...
> 
> I've never seen this on an NT system.

Oh?  And pray tell, what's your average uptime on your NT system?

Really, this flame war is all besides the point.  You've stated repeatedly
that you want Windows and only Windows.  You don't want to try any other X
window managers, because they're not Windows and don't run Windows
application.  This is all fine and good, just run Windows then and quit
whining.  That's what my wife does (sans the whining).  Those of us that
aren't married to Microsoft can use whatever _works_.  And for me, at
least, KDE and X works.  It does everything I need.  As is apparently the
case for many other folk as well.

So, I really don't get all the noise you're making over this.  So you
tried it, you don't like it and you want to stick with the text command
line.  So go for it!  That's one of the nice things about FreeBSD, you
have the _choice_.  But there's really no need to gripe about those who
make other choices and are happy with it, even if you couldn't get it to
work for yourself.

Ken Bolingbroke
hacker@bolingbroke.com


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