From owner-freebsd-questions Tue Nov 20 13:38:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from fremont.bolingbroke.com (adsl-216-102-90-210.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [216.102.90.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8C6437B405 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 13:38:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from fremont.bolingbroke.com (fremont.bolingbroke.com [216.102.90.210]) by fremont.bolingbroke.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id fAKLcG20069753; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 13:38:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 13:38:16 -0800 (PST) From: Ken Bolingbroke To: Anthony Atkielski Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: home pc use In-Reply-To: <00b401c17203$caba2630$0a00000a@atkielski.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 20 Nov 2001, Anthony Atkielski wrote: > Ken writes: > > > The problem I see is that you really haven't > > tried enough to make such a determination. > > I don't have to. Statistically, there is no reason to suspect hardware unless > and until everything else has been eliminated. Did I mention hardware problems? Personally, I'm inclined to suspect the more likely culprit, which other people are too diplomatic to mention: User error. Face it, countless people use KDE. You're whining about all these bugs, how it's not stable, etc. Yet, all these other people, myself included, are just using it. So you couldn't get it to work... Hardware fault? Driver bugs? User error? Take your pick. But the fact is, your sweeping generalizations don't hold true beyond your own limited experience in this case. > > ... unlike Windows, where one or more application > > crashes will take down the whole system. > > Sounds like you've never run NT. Applications can crash all day on my > NT system, and it never blinks. Gee, thanks for calling me a liar. And you wonder why people aren't falling over themselves to help you out of their own goodwill. I've admin'd NT 3.51, 4.0 and 2000, in addition to using it for my workplace desktop. One of my current projects involves migrating a campus into W2K's Active Directory. Yes, I run it. Unfortunately. Take the current pain-in-the-rear application I'm dealing with: Altiris LabExpert. It hangs regularly, for which I fault Altiris, not Microsoft, of course, but the big hassle is that W2K provides me no way to completely kill it--even shutting down the process from the Task Manager doesn't free up the network port it listens on, so it's necessary to reboot the server to restart the application. Yes, UNIX does deal with badly behaved applications better. > > Contrast this to my Windows NT work desktop, > > where I had to pre-emptively reboot at least > > twice weekly so NT doesn't crap out on me in > > the middle of whatever work I'm doing ... > > I've never seen this on an NT system. Oh? And pray tell, what's your average uptime on your NT system? Really, this flame war is all besides the point. You've stated repeatedly that you want Windows and only Windows. You don't want to try any other X window managers, because they're not Windows and don't run Windows application. This is all fine and good, just run Windows then and quit whining. That's what my wife does (sans the whining). Those of us that aren't married to Microsoft can use whatever _works_. And for me, at least, KDE and X works. It does everything I need. As is apparently the case for many other folk as well. So, I really don't get all the noise you're making over this. So you tried it, you don't like it and you want to stick with the text command line. So go for it! That's one of the nice things about FreeBSD, you have the _choice_. But there's really no need to gripe about those who make other choices and are happy with it, even if you couldn't get it to work for yourself. Ken Bolingbroke hacker@bolingbroke.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message