From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 18 0:46:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4CD6B14BE0 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 00:46:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: (qmail 65691 invoked by uid 1001); 18 Jul 1999 07:44:25 +0000 (GMT) To: vince@venus.GAIANET.NET Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? From: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 17 Jul 1999 22:50:14 -0700 (PDT)" References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 09:44:25 +0200 Message-ID: <65689.932283865@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Hmmm, I can understand getting 2Mb/s over ssh but I never figured > out how to transfer files using ssh yet. Have you read the manual page? scp or ssh with a tar pipe at each end works just fine. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 18 0:46:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from venus.GAIANET.NET (venus.GAIANET.NET [207.211.200.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B14714BE0 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 00:46:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@venus.GAIANET.NET) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by venus.GAIANET.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20779; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 00:45:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@venus.GAIANET.NET) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 00:45:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Poy To: sthaug@nethelp.no Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? In-Reply-To: <65689.932283865@verdi.nethelp.no> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 18 Jul 1999 sthaug@nethelp.no wrote: > > Hmmm, I can understand getting 2Mb/s over ssh but I never figured > > out how to transfer files using ssh yet. > > Have you read the manual page? scp or ssh with a tar pipe at each end > works just fine. Yep, but didn't get a chance to thoroughly read everything since I need it more for remotely logging in... Cheers, Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate / / / / | / | __] ] Beverly Hills, California USA 90210 / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 18 0:52:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cs.Technion.AC.IL (csa.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF74414BE0 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 00:52:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nadav@cs.technion.ac.il) Received: from csd.cs.technion.ac.il (csd.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.8]) by cs.Technion.AC.IL (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA15893; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 10:54:27 +0300 (IDT) Received: from localhost (nadav@localhost) by csd.cs.technion.ac.il (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA26386; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 10:54:26 +0300 (IDT) X-Authentication-Warning: csd.cs.technion.ac.il: nadav owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 10:54:26 +0300 (IDT) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: sthaug@nethelp.no Cc: vince@venus.gaianet.net, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? In-Reply-To: <65689.932283865@verdi.nethelp.no> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 18 Jul 1999 sthaug@nethelp.no wrote: > > Hmmm, I can understand getting 2Mb/s over ssh but I never figured > > out how to transfer files using ssh yet. > > Have you read the manual page? scp or ssh with a tar pipe at each end > works just fine. Not to mentions ssh2's sftp... > > Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no > > Nadav To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 18 6:36:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C74DA14D59 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 06:36:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id WAA25253; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:34:22 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3791CEC9.42DEF43F@newsguy.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:55:37 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Pritchard Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c) References: <199906232344.SAA00888@mpp.pro-ns.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mike Pritchard wrote: > > - Sections 1, 6 and 8 are all pretty much the same (user commands, games, > administrator commands). That's a terrific quote, y'know... :-) And the context even reinforces it! Look: > - Sections 2 and 3 are pretty much the same (system calls and library > functions). :-) Then again, I always thought fortune was an admin command hidden in games as a strange sort of joke. :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org Everything journalists write is true, except when they write about something you know. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 18 6:59:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37DE014DCF for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 06:59:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id PAA24067; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 15:57:40 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id QAA31201; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:12:31 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990718161231.57850@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:12:31 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: Brett Glass Cc: W Gerald Hicks , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net Subject: Re: IA64: Back on topic References: <199907161743.NAA00670@bellsouth.net> <4.2.0.58.19990716114240.04750360@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990716114240.04750360@localhost>; from Brett Glass on Fri, Jul 16, 1999 at 11:56:02AM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > > The code generated by the FreeBSD project will surely be open, > and would not be covered by an NDA by the time the CPU shipped. > There is nothing wrong with starting early under NDA. PITA. Ask NetBSD -- you can't have NDA'd code in the CVS tree. You limit the scope of people who can work on it (they have to get their hands tied too). Changes are hard to get reviewed. Since nothing is complete yet, this kind of "me too" attitude yet will only get you (admin cost) > (benefit cost). > Then how can you judge it? Don't need to judge it, it's an NDA. > principles of competition among replicators), you demand that others > give up their intellectual property and market advantage just because > you say so. Intel doesn't care about such unreasonable demands. Nor does He never demanded that. You say he does. Don't put words in other peoples' mouths. He said (paraphrase), "I don't want to have to read/submit myself to their NDA" != "Intel should unveil everything NOW because I want it" -- didn't he ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 18 7: 5:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 503F614BE5 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 07:05:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id QAA24113; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:02:25 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id QAA31232; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:17:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990718161715.45554@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:17:15 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: Francisco Reyes Cc: Chris Silva , FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Another slogan? References: <199907180014.UAA02126@arutam.inch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199907180014.UAA02126@arutam.inch.com>; from Francisco Reyes on Sat, Jul 17, 1999 at 08:15:56PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Francisco Reyes writes: > >How do you all feel about this for a slogan: > >FreeBSD: You ain't seen nuthin' yet! > > I also think it doesn't tie up to FreeBSD. > In other words something like "FreeBSD The power to serve" ties up > FreeBSD to performance. The one you mention has nothing which ties it > up to FreeBSD. It reminds me of Vaporware: "Windows 2000: you ain't see nothing yet (and you aint ever)" -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 18 7:38:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com (cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com [24.6.21.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A20D14D34 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 07:38:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from conrads@cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com) Received: (from conrads@localhost) by cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id EAA12871 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 04:36:33 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 04:36:32 -0500 (CDT) Organization: @Home Network From: Conrad Sabatier To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Sanity regained -- back with the best Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I should have known, I should have known. What was I thinking? After trying running a Windows-only box for a while, and then making a brief foray into RedHat 6.0, I'm finally back where I belong. I must have been out of my mind. Had to be. Feels so good to be back with FreeBSD. I cannot believe the difference between it and Linux. Linux's multitasking can't hold a candle to FreeBSD's. No sir, no way, no how. Tried playing MP3s under Linux on this 166 MHz box; choppy, choppy, choppy. Under FreeBSD, smooth as butter. Simply no comparison. And the RPM system doesn't even come close, IMHO, to matching FreeBSD's ports/packages system. Everything in FreeBSD just feels better, what can I say? I must plead temporary insanity for ever quitting FreeBSD. Luckily, I came to my senses in a relatively short time (only about a month or so). I guess it was just something I had to do at the time, but now I can't even remember why. Nuts. Please excuse my dalliances. Won't happen again. :-) Conrad, the prodigal son returning ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Conrad Sabatier Date: 18-Jul-99 Time: 04:27:10 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 18 8: 8:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gw.nectar.cc (gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1890D151EE for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 08:08:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.cc) Received: from spawn.nectar.cc (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gw.nectar.cc (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02B50BDF7 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 10:09:07 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-Exmh-Isig-CompType: unknown X-Exmh-Isig-Folder: mlist/freebsd/committers X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.cc/nectar-rsa.txt X-PGP-DSSfprint: AB2F 8D71 A4F4 467D 352E 8A41 5D79 22E4 71A2 8C73 X-PGP-DHfprint: 2D50 12E5 AB38 60BA AF4B 0778 7242 4460 1C32 F6B1 X-PGP-DH-DSSkey: http://www.nectar.cc/nectar-dh-dss.txt From: Jacques Vidrine To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Minneapolis/St. Paul hackers? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 10:09:07 -0500 Message-Id: <19990718150908.02B50BDF7@gw.nectar.cc> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I just mass unsubscribed from all mailing lists as I enter the final stage of moving to Minneapolis. I'd like to hear from other FreeBSD hackers in the area. Is there a user's group yet? Please drop me a line in private email! I'll be mostly off-net for the next week or two, but it'll be nice to hear from some other Minnesotans when I get there ``don't ya know'' :-) Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.cc / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 18 8:27:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from arutam.inch.com (ns.inch.com [207.240.140.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0DF314F5B for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 08:27:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freyes@inch.com) Received: from your-name (freyes.static.inch.com [207.240.212.43]) by arutam.inch.com (8.9.1a/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA13954; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 11:27:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907181527.LAA13954@arutam.inch.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "Conrad Sabatier" Cc: "FreeBSd Chat list" Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 11:28:57 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Sanity regained -- back with the best Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 18 Jul 1999 04:36:32 -0500 (CDT), Conrad Sabatier wrote: >After trying running a Windows-only box for a while, and then making a brief >foray into RedHat 6.0, I'm finally back where I belong. I must have been out >of my mind. Had to be. >Feels so good to be back with FreeBSD. You have commited a serious sin. There can only be one way to be forgiven. You have to go to FreeBSDMall and make a donation. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 18 8:40:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from caladan.tdx.co.uk (caladan.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD24614E5A for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 08:40:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Received: from tdx.co.uk (lorca-tx.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.242]) by caladan.tdx.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Kp) with ESMTP id QAA96521; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:38:37 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3791F4D2.2000C88A@tdx.co.uk> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:37:54 +0100 From: Karl Pielorz Organization: TDX - The Digital eXchange X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vincent Poy Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Vincent Poy wrote: > I meant real use as i.e. all the workstations are connected and > the cable is transfering data. Not just during the time period of > installing but throughout the use of the cables life. More machines on the segment shouldn't make any difference, so long as the cable going from the machine to the hub meets the spec. it should be OK... > > A 2gb file? - You could always FTP it from here? > > Hehe, wonder how long that will take Too long... :) > > Yes, it would!... We (as in Unix) have the free Pascal compiler, which > > supports most (if not all) of the Sysutils unit, but it's a long way from > > being able to run on the bosses Windows desktop :-) > > Hehe, maybe some convincing would work :-) I've tried that already - I've emailed Borland/Inprise - and got a lot of like minded friends to email them... As far as I can remember they said they were aware of the demand for a Unix version (no mention of FreeBSD :) - but weren't planning anything at the moment... I got the same from the VMWare people - I got at least 20 people to email them, the replies slowly went from "No plans" through to "We're aware of the demand, but we're looking to make the Linux version stable [etc.] before moving to other platforms" back to the "Will not be developed for FreeBSD"... :( > > Not that the boss is best friends with Windows at the moment (it crashes his > > machine about twice a day, and that's even under NT :-) > > Haha, I'm sure he's a frequent audience of the Blue Screen of > Death too :-) No, his machine just goes comatose... You start having to kill things with Task manager, that fails - so you have to reboot... My WinNT machine does blue-screen on a regular basis. The terminal I setup next to my NT box (running FreeBSD 2.2.5) is still going strong after 600 days uptime though... I'm reluctant to take it down to upgrade (if it ain't broke [for what you do] don't fix it?) Says a lot... :) -Kp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 18 8:43:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com (cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com [24.6.21.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 201A014E5A for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 08:43:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from conrads@cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com) Received: (from conrads@localhost) by cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id KAA00345; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 10:41:35 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199907181527.LAA13954@arutam.inch.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 10:41:35 -0500 (CDT) Organization: @Home Network From: Conrad Sabatier To: Francisco Reyes Subject: Re: Sanity regained -- back with the best Cc: FreeBSd Chat list Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 18-Jul-99 Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sun, 18 Jul 1999 04:36:32 -0500 (CDT), Conrad Sabatier wrote: > >>After trying running a Windows-only box for a while, and then making a brief >>foray into RedHat 6.0, I'm finally back where I belong. I must have been out >>of my mind. Had to be. >>Feels so good to be back with FreeBSD. > > You have commited a serious sin. There can only be one way to be > forgiven. > You have to go to FreeBSDMall and make a donation. Really. Atonement might do me some good. :-) I feel like such an idiot for ever having left, really. It is so cool, now that I have a cable conection, to be running FreeBSD. The networking *rocks*! Love it. Now, I've got some catching up to do, I think. :-) Later. ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Conrad Sabatier Date: 18-Jul-99 Time: 10:39:29 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 18 9:31:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0026514BE7 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 09:31:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07278; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 10:30:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990718101705.00ccb720@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 10:18:56 -0600 To: Conrad Sabatier , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Sanity regained -- back with the best In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:36 AM 7/18/99 -0500, Conrad Sabatier wrote: >Feels so good to be back with FreeBSD. I cannot believe the difference between >it and Linux. Linux's multitasking can't hold a candle to FreeBSD's. No sir, >no way, no how. Tried playing MP3s under Linux on this 166 MHz box; choppy, >choppy, choppy. Under FreeBSD, smooth as butter. Simply no comparison. And >the RPM system doesn't even come close, IMHO, to matching FreeBSD's >ports/packages system. Yep, the only one that's better, IMHO, is Debian's; among other things, it lets you bring things in directly from a Web browser (such as Lynx). Speaking of which, what is the status of FreeBSD's new ports/packages system? --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 18 13:50:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from scotty.masternet.it (scotty.masternet.it [194.184.65.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ACAA14C58 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 13:50:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Received: from suzy (ppp-massa52-64-14.iol.it [212.52.64.14]) by scotty.masternet.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA00533 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:48:24 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Message-Id: <4.1.19990718224838.01324160@194.184.65.4> X-Sender: gmarco@194.184.65.2 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:51:32 +0200 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Gianmarco Giovannelli Subject: Re: Sanity regained -- back with the best In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990718101705.00ccb720@localhost> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 18/07/99, Brett Glass wrote: > >Yep, the only one that's better, IMHO, is Debian's; among other things, it lets >you bring things in directly from a Web browser (such as Lynx). Speaking of >which, >what is the status of FreeBSD's new ports/packages system? Debian ??? I tried to install the 2.1 and I think the dselect front end is too much difficult also for an average Unix user... They say apt is better , but in the installation I (IT) maked it wasn't .... What changes are expected in our ports system? Best Regards, Gianmarco Giovannelli , "Unix expert since yesterday" http://www.giovannelli.it/~gmarco http://www2.masternet.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 18 13:57:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 651DF14C58 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 13:57:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (tc14-216-180-35-66.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.35.66] (may be forged)) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA32586; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 15:56:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37923F71.B2FC87ED@airnet.net> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 15:56:17 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Non Illegitemus Carborundum. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Karl Pielorz Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? References: <3791F4D2.2000C88A@tdx.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Karl Pielorz wrote: > I'm reluctant to take it down to upgrade (if it ain't broke [for what you do] > don't fix it?) I can't keep mine up! I use Win98 on my machine occasionally. Be very careful about which xterm or vty you type "shutdown" in! :-) I only upgrade: 1. When a new release comes out. 2. After a full backup. 3. Any machine except my "LAN master". Because of my "unique" situation, my domain, etc. doesn't exist outside of my LAN. Well, the LAN master is the machine with all the DNS info for the LAN and two copies of named - one for internet connectivity, and one for without. It also carries the firewall, dial-on-demand, etc. It's very nasty to try and debug a program when none of the other machines know who they are or who they are talking to! Even worse is the instant lack of connectivity. -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 18 14: 4:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 773BE14F1C for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 14:04:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (tc14-216-180-35-66.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.35.66] (may be forged)) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA03495; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:04:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3792416C.65D43E31@airnet.net> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:04:44 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Non Illegitemus Carborundum. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Conrad Sabatier Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sanity regained -- back with the best References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Conrad Sabatier wrote: > After trying running a Windows-only box for a while, and then making a brief > foray into RedHat 6.0, I'm finally back where I belong. I must have been out > of my mind. Had to be. I think the coolest thing I have done so far was ripping CDs in windows and saving the data on my 9G Barracuda hard drive down the LAN. Actually, I was doing it through a full-duplex 100Mbit link between the machines. Samba was only eating 30% of the CPU at the max. People tell me I am easily impressed. I wonder why? Later, after I pulled my calculator out and remembered that two 10Mbit channels would have just as easily sufficed for the application, I gave myself a big smack in the head. But it's cool to have a hard drive connected over network. Especially a fast one (IDE SUCKS!). -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 18 14: 5:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bamboo.verinet.com (bamboo.verinet.com [204.144.246.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F72914F1E for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 14:05:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: from const. (allenc.verinet.com [199.45.180.181]) by bamboo.verinet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13604; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 15:05:12 -0600 Received: from verinet.com (IDENT:allenc@pragma. [192.168.1.2]) by const. (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA04796; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 15:05:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Message-ID: <37924170.49BA7266@verinet.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 15:04:48 -0600 From: Allen Campbell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: New package system (was Re: Sanity regained -- back with the best) References: <4.2.0.58.19990718101705.00ccb720@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > At 04:36 AM 7/18/99 -0500, Conrad Sabatier wrote: > > >Feels so good to be back with FreeBSD. I cannot believe the difference between > >it and Linux. Linux's multitasking can't hold a candle to FreeBSD's. No sir, > >no way, no how. Tried playing MP3s under Linux on this 166 MHz box; choppy, > >choppy, choppy. Under FreeBSD, smooth as butter. Simply no comparison. And > >the RPM system doesn't even come close, IMHO, to matching FreeBSD's > >ports/packages system. > > Yep, the only one that's better, IMHO, is Debian's; among other things, it lets > you bring things in directly from a Web browser (such as Lynx). Speaking of which, > what is the status of FreeBSD's new ports/packages system? When I last inquired, the new code was not far enough along to leave the nest yet. The other concern is it requires egcs (template support is key I believe,) and a few other tools which had not imported into the tree yet. This was sometime around 3.1-RELEASE. Jordan provided this information. Please forgive me if I am paraphrasing incorrectly. An update would be helpful. -- Allen Campbell | Lurking at the bottom of the allenc@verinet.com | gravity well, getting old. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 18 14:40:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C041F14F1E for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 14:40:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA08542; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 23:39:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id XAA44522; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 23:39:05 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 23:39:05 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Andrzej Bialecki , chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/pppd Makefile Message-ID: <19990718233905.Z25659@bitbox.follo.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Fri, Jul 16, 1999 at 04:04:26PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jul 16, 1999 at 04:04:26PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > [moving from -committers to -chat] > > Andrzej Bialecki writes: > > Hehe... Admit you have a procmail rule to catch all [Dd][Ee][Ss] > > occurences in your mail.. ;-) > > des@des ~% grep -ci des /usr/share/dict/words > 997 > des@des ~% grep -ci andrzej /usr/share/dict/words > 0 eivind(bitbox)--% grep -ci EE /usr/share/dict/words 3938 Eivind (EE on IRC). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 18 19:15:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com (cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com [24.6.21.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB1A614E98 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 19:15:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from conrads@cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com) Received: (from conrads@localhost) by cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id VAA04752 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:14:04 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:14:04 -0500 (CDT) Organization: @Home Network From: Conrad Sabatier To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Sanity regained -- back with the best Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Forgot to add, I've got my web pages back up in their new location now at http://members.home.net/conrads/ This includes the tutorial I wrote a while back on setting up the Creative Labs Soundblaster AWE 32/64 and PnP. ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Conrad Sabatier Date: 18-Jul-99 Time: 21:11:45 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 18 21:18:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C05BC14D4C for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:18:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA09736; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:45:39 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id NAA68752; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:45:37 +0930 (CST) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:45:37 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Gianmarco Giovannelli Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best) Message-ID: <19990719134536.K65436@freebie.lemis.com> References: <4.2.0.58.19990718101705.00ccb720@localhost> <4.1.19990718224838.01324160@194.184.65.4> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990718224838.01324160@194.184.65.4>; from Gianmarco Giovannelli on Sun, Jul 18, 1999 at 10:51:32PM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] On Sunday, 18 July 1999 at 22:51:32 +0200, Gianmarco Giovannelli wrote: > At 18/07/99, Brett Glass wrote: >> >> Yep, the only one that's better, IMHO, is Debian's; among other >> things, it lets you bring things in directly from a Web browser >> (such as Lynx). Speaking of which, what is the status of FreeBSD's >> new ports/packages system? > > Debian ??? I tried to install the 2.1 and I think the dselect front end is > too much difficult also for an average Unix user... > They say apt is better , but in the installation I (IT) maked it wasn't .... I installed Debian from the CDs distributed at USENIX. It was a *whole* lot better than UnixWare, but so far everything has been. Debian upset me by not being able to install X (not even manually). I had to go through quite some pain to get it running. Also, it only installed a subset of the man pages, though I asked for everything. I've just completed a backup of the Debian partition, and I'll try RedHat 5.2 next (5.2 because that's what I got given at the NT UNIX Conference last week). Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 18 21:31:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C23FA14E05 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:31:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA22682; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:34:08 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199907190434.OAA22682@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best) In-Reply-To: <19990719134536.K65436@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Jul 19, 1999 01:45:37 pm" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:34:08 +1000 (EST) Cc: gmarco@scotty.masternet.it (Gianmarco Giovannelli), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > I installed Debian from the CDs distributed at USENIX. It was a > *whole* lot better than UnixWare, but so far everything has been. > Debian upset me by not being able to install X (not even manually). I > had to go through quite some pain to get it running. Also, it only > installed a subset of the man pages, though I asked for everything. > > I've just completed a backup of the Debian partition, and I'll try > RedHat 5.2 next (5.2 because that's what I got given at the NT UNIX > Conference last week). I take it that you are referring to "Northern Territory" as NT rather than (Windows) "No Thanks"? 8-) -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 18 21:59:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E093214EAC for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:59:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA09877; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:29:19 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id OAA68937; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:29:16 +0930 (CST) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:29:16 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: John Birrell Cc: Gianmarco Giovannelli , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best) Message-ID: <19990719142916.P65436@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990719134536.K65436@freebie.lemis.com> <199907190434.OAA22682@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199907190434.OAA22682@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Mon, Jul 19, 1999 at 02:34:08PM +1000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 19 July 1999 at 14:34:08 +1000, John Birrell wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: >> I installed Debian from the CDs distributed at USENIX. It was a >> *whole* lot better than UnixWare, but so far everything has been. >> Debian upset me by not being able to install X (not even manually). I >> had to go through quite some pain to get it running. Also, it only >> installed a subset of the man pages, though I asked for everything. >> >> I've just completed a backup of the Debian partition, and I'll try >> RedHat 5.2 next (5.2 because that's what I got given at the NT UNIX >> Conference last week). > > I take it that you are referring to "Northern Territory" as NT > rather than (Windows) "No Thanks"? 8-) Shhh, I was waiting for somebody to ask some questions. And then I was going to mention Darwin :-) Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 0:42:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 269ED14E35 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:42:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id JAA07744; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:41:14 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id JAA32577; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:56:12 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990719095612.41282@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:56:12 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: Greg Lehey Cc: Gianmarco Giovannelli , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best) References: <4.2.0.58.19990718101705.00ccb720@localhost> <4.1.19990718224838.01324160@194.184.65.4> <19990719134536.K65436@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19990719134536.K65436@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Mon, Jul 19, 1999 at 01:45:37PM +0930 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey writes: > > I installed Debian from the CDs distributed at USENIX. It was a > *whole* lot better than UnixWare, but so far everything has been. Wow, I tried that yesterday, it took _hours_! I had to manually load the eepro100 driver from the driver disk (the install reminded me of early FreeBSD / NetBSD), though the package selection mechanism was quite pwerful (definitely not newbie stuff). Also, I was annoyed at not being able to install over FTP. > I've just completed a backup of the Debian partition, and I'll try > RedHat 5.2 next (5.2 because that's what I got given at the NT UNIX > Conference last week). I've given up on redhat -- it sends me into convulsions every time I try to understand their rc files. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 0:55: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from venus.GAIANET.NET (venus.GAIANET.NET [207.211.200.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BAA4150BF for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:54:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@venus.GAIANET.NET) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by venus.GAIANET.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26831; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:54:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@venus.GAIANET.NET) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:54:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Poy To: Karl Pielorz Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? In-Reply-To: <3791F4D2.2000C88A@tdx.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 18 Jul 1999, Karl Pielorz wrote: > > I meant real use as i.e. all the workstations are connected and > > the cable is transfering data. Not just during the time period of > > installing but throughout the use of the cables life. > > More machines on the segment shouldn't make any difference, so long as the > cable going from the machine to the hub meets the spec. it should be OK... I never said adding more machines. I am just saying that you tested the stuff before the cable is connected between the two devices. Unless you test the cable while the two devices are using the cable, you wouldn't really know the properties of the cable after use since magnetic energy does build up when there is current flowing through the cable for a period of time. > > > A 2gb file? - You could always FTP it from here? > > > > Hehe, wonder how long that will take > > Too long... :) Just what I thought! =) > > > Yes, it would!... We (as in Unix) have the free Pascal compiler, which > > > supports most (if not all) of the Sysutils unit, but it's a long way from > > > being able to run on the bosses Windows desktop :-) > > > > Hehe, maybe some convincing would work :-) > > I've tried that already - I've emailed Borland/Inprise - and got a lot of like > minded friends to email them... As far as I can remember they said they were > aware of the demand for a Unix version (no mention of FreeBSD :) - but weren't > planning anything at the moment... I wonder which Unix they would actually support first, > I got the same from the VMWare people - I got at least 20 people to email > them, the replies slowly went from "No plans" through to "We're aware of the > demand, but we're looking to make the Linux version stable [etc.] before > moving to other platforms" back to the "Will not be developed for FreeBSD"... > :( Yeah, that's the problem. It's like FreeBSD is the high-end OS while Linux is like the Mass-Market OS much like Microsoft is, just in another way. :( > > > Not that the boss is best friends with Windows at the moment (it crashes his > > > machine about twice a day, and that's even under NT :-) > > > > Haha, I'm sure he's a frequent audience of the Blue Screen of > > Death too :-) > > No, his machine just goes comatose... You start having to kill things with > Task manager, that fails - so you have to reboot... My WinNT machine does > blue-screen on a regular basis. The terminal I setup next to my NT box > (running FreeBSD 2.2.5) is still going strong after 600 days uptime though... Haha, I experience that problem with Win98 since even with 128 megs of RAM... it runs out of system resources... > I'm reluctant to take it down to upgrade (if it ain't broke [for what you do] > don't fix it?) Yeah but I would generally upgrade just for the bug and security fixes =) > Says a lot... :) Cheers, Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate / / / / | / | __] ] Beverly Hills, California USA 90210 / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 0:59:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CE2F150F3 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:59:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA10375; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:28:06 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id RAA72675; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:27:47 +0930 (CST) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:27:47 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Phil Regnauld Cc: Gianmarco Giovannelli , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best) Message-ID: <19990719172747.A72625@freebie.lemis.com> References: <4.2.0.58.19990718101705.00ccb720@localhost> <4.1.19990718224838.01324160@194.184.65.4> <19990719134536.K65436@freebie.lemis.com> <19990719095612.41282@ns.int.ftf.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990719095612.41282@ns.int.ftf.net>; from Phil Regnauld on Mon, Jul 19, 1999 at 09:56:12AM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 19 July 1999 at 9:56:12 +0200, Phil Regnauld wrote: > Greg Lehey writes: >> >> I installed Debian from the CDs distributed at USENIX. It was a >> *whole* lot better than UnixWare, but so far everything has been. > > Wow, I tried that yesterday, it took _hours_! But it worked at the end? It didn't like my Dell Latitude at all. > I had to manually load the eepro100 driver from the driver disk > (the install reminded me of early FreeBSD / NetBSD), Yes, I got that impression too. In fact, it reminds me more of early UnixWare (1.0, back in late 1992). > though the package selection mechanism was quite pwerful (definitely > not newbie stuff). > > Also, I was annoyed at not being able to install over FTP. > >> I've just completed a backup of the Debian partition, and I'll try >> RedHat 5.2 next (5.2 because that's what I got given at the NT UNIX >> Conference last week). > > I've given up on redhat -- it sends me into convulsions every > time I try to understand their rc files. I haven't got that far yet. The installation worked fine once I guessed what to do with the Disk Droid, but it gave me a list of Ethernet boards which didn't include my 3C589, so it didn't install notworking. So I configured the thing manually and tried to do it with linuxconf. I've now got it to display the correct peepholes into the config, but every time I enter something into them and press "accept", it erases them without complaining and then replaces them with the defaults. At the same time it spits out garbage on the terminal from which I started it. Not a very impressive performance. Ah. After stopping and restarting linuxconf, it's saved the info after all. It also seems to suffer from sporadic networking problems, like this one: [root@localhost grog]# emacs /etc& [3] 561 [root@localhost grog]# _X11TransSocketINETConnect: Can't connect: errno = 101 emacs: Cannot connect to X server freebie:0. Check the DISPLAY environment variable or use `-d'. Also use the `xhost' program to verify that it is set to permit connections from your machine. emacs /etc& [3] Exit 1 emacs /etc [root@localhost grog]# The second time it worked just fine. Hmm, nothing much wrong with the rc.d stuff. It looks like it was stolen from System V. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 1: 6:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A329B15114 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:06:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:05:36 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Vincent Poy" , "Karl Pielorz" Cc: Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:05:35 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bed1bd$7b34e200$021d85d1@youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I never said adding more machines. I am just saying that you > tested the stuff before the cable is connected between the two devices. > Unless you test the cable while the two devices are using the cable, you > wouldn't really know the properties of the cable after use since magnetic > energy does build up when there is current flowing through the cable for a > period of time. Magnetic energy building up over a period of time on an Ethernet cable? Are you one of those people who waits a few minutes before opening the microwave door? DS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 1:10:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from venus.GAIANET.NET (venus.GAIANET.NET [207.211.200.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F7AD150C4 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:10:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@venus.GAIANET.NET) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by venus.GAIANET.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA26978; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:09:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@venus.GAIANET.NET) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:09:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Poy To: David Schwartz Cc: Karl Pielorz , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? In-Reply-To: <000001bed1bd$7b34e200$021d85d1@youwant.to> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, David Schwartz wrote: > > I never said adding more machines. I am just saying that you > > tested the stuff before the cable is connected between the two devices. > > Unless you test the cable while the two devices are using the cable, you > > wouldn't really know the properties of the cable after use since magnetic > > energy does build up when there is current flowing through the cable for a > > period of time. > > Magnetic energy building up over a period of time on an Ethernet cable? Are > you one of those people who waits a few minutes before opening the microwave > door? No... but I'm just saying that cable properties do change over time. When current flows, there is energy build up... Cheers, Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate / / / / | / | __] ] Beverly Hills, California USA 90210 / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 1:15:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44345150D7 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:15:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:15:10 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Vincent Poy" Cc: "Karl Pielorz" , Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:15:10 -0700 Message-ID: <000201bed1be$d17d16e0$021d85d1@youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > No... but I'm just saying that cable properties do change over > time. When current flows, there is energy build up... Yes, cable properties change over time, over months or years, sure. As for current flowing causing "energy build up", any magnetic field that's going to build around an Ethernet cable due to current flowing through it has affected the cable's characteristics as much as it is going to in a tiny fraction of a second. An Ethernet cable does not need to 'warm up'. DS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 1:25:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from venus.GAIANET.NET (venus.GAIANET.NET [207.211.200.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EF5714C7F for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:25:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@venus.GAIANET.NET) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by venus.GAIANET.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA27106; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:24:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@venus.GAIANET.NET) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:24:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Poy To: David Schwartz Cc: Karl Pielorz , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? In-Reply-To: <000201bed1be$d17d16e0$021d85d1@youwant.to> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, David Schwartz wrote: > > No... but I'm just saying that cable properties do change over > > time. When current flows, there is energy build up... > > Yes, cable properties change over time, over months or years, sure. As for > current flowing causing "energy build up", any magnetic field that's going > to build around an Ethernet cable due to current flowing through it has > affected the cable's characteristics as much as it is going to in a tiny > fraction of a second. > > An Ethernet cable does not need to 'warm up'. I guess you have a point. There isn't a lot of current flowing through the ethernet cable anyways. I guess what I am saying is that when you test something and when you use something, it's totally different. Just like when you test a HD, you know what the max rate is. But that doesn't mean that's the same in real world use. Cheers, Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate / / / / | / | __] ] Beverly Hills, California USA 90210 / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 1:31:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD57B14D5A for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:31:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id KAA13735; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:30:14 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id KAA32679; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:45:12 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990719104512.41019@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:45:12 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: David Schwartz Cc: Vincent Poy , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? References: <000001bed1bd$7b34e200$021d85d1@youwant.to> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <000001bed1bd$7b34e200$021d85d1@youwant.to>; from David Schwartz on Mon, Jul 19, 1999 at 01:05:35AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Schwartz writes: > > An Ethernet cable does not need to 'warm up'. > > DS David Schwartz writes: > > Are you one of those people who waits a few minutes before opening the microwave > door? > > DS Why, yes, when I've just finished heating my ethernet cables :-)))) -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 1:36:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBF9414D5A for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:36:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id KAA14164; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:34:01 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id KAA32702; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:49:00 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990719104859.08752@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:48:59 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: Greg Lehey Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best) References: <4.2.0.58.19990718101705.00ccb720@localhost> <4.1.19990718224838.01324160@194.184.65.4> <19990719134536.K65436@freebie.lemis.com> <19990719095612.41282@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990719172747.A72625@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19990719172747.A72625@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Mon, Jul 19, 1999 at 05:27:47PM +0930 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey writes: > > > > Wow, I tried that yesterday, it took _hours_! > > But it worked at the end? It didn't like my Dell Latitude at all. Sort of (I was having problems with the FreeBSD NFS server at that moment) -- I haven't played enough with it yet, but yes, it did boot multi-user. > notworking. So I configured the thing manually and tried to do it > with linuxconf. I've now got it to display the correct peepholes into > the config, but every time I enter something into them and press > "accept", it erases them without complaining and then replaces them > with the defaults. At the same time it spits out garbage on the > terminal from which I started it. Not a very impressive performance. ... why is why I go looking into the rc files :-) > Hmm, nothing much wrong with the rc.d stuff. It looks like it was > stolen from System V. It's more the way they do their dynamic module loading which horrifies me (peeking into /proc to see if the device was seen, load the module -- which happens to fail quite often with the TR cards we have here). -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 1:52:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from venus.GAIANET.NET (venus.GAIANET.NET [207.211.200.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7280614CEA for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:52:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@venus.GAIANET.NET) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by venus.GAIANET.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA27239; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:49:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@venus.GAIANET.NET) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:49:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Poy To: Tani Hosokawa Cc: David Schwartz , Karl Pielorz , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, Tani Hosokawa wrote: > On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, Vincent Poy wrote: > > > On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, David Schwartz wrote: > > > > > > No... but I'm just saying that cable properties do change over > > > > time. When current flows, there is energy build up... > > > > > > Yes, cable properties change over time, over months or years, sure. As for > > > current flowing causing "energy build up", any magnetic field that's going > > > to build around an Ethernet cable due to current flowing through it has > > > affected the cable's characteristics as much as it is going to in a tiny > > > fraction of a second. > > > > > > An Ethernet cable does not need to 'warm up'. > > > > I guess you have a point. There isn't a lot of current flowing > > through the ethernet cable anyways. I guess what I am saying is that when > > you test something and when you use something, it's totally different. > > Just like when you test a HD, you know what the max rate is. But that > > doesn't mean that's the same in real world use. > > I guess, but with an ethernet cable tester (assuming he's not just doing a > basic connectivity test) it ought to fully simulate sending some basic bit > patterns across the cable. That's the way any of the cable diagnostics > hardware I've ever worked with did it. And that should be a completely > reasonable indication of soundness. And that still doesn't work the same way as in the real world. Pretty much like with our experience with the ETinc router card... The other one works fine but this one pasts all tests and even those with a FireBird and a T-Bird... The problem only happens with incoming data of large packets hanging at certain times of the day. Cheers, Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate / / / / | / | __] ] Beverly Hills, California USA 90210 / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 1:54:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6208150B2 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:54:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (tc14-216-180-35-237.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.35.237]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id DAA11156; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 03:51:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3792E715.9D577C6D@airnet.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 03:51:33 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Non Illegitemus Carborundum. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Phil Regnauld Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? References: <000001bed1bd$7b34e200$021d85d1@youwant.to> <19990719104512.41019@ns.int.ftf.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Phil Regnauld wrote: > > David Schwartz writes: > > > > An Ethernet cable does not need to 'warm up'. > > > > DS > > David Schwartz writes: > > > > Are you one of those people who waits a few minutes before opening the microwave > > door? > > > > DS > > Why, yes, when I've just finished heating my ethernet cables :-)))) How else do you think he checks the bandwidth requirement? 2GHZ for 2 minutes @ 1000 W.... -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 2: 1:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from avarice.riverstyx.net (hq-port-97.harbour-dhcp-pool.infinetgroup.com [207.23.37.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3000C150BA for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 02:01:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from avarice (unknown@avarice [207.23.37.97]) by avarice.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA05393; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:39:05 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:39:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Tani Hosokawa To: Vincent Poy Cc: David Schwartz , Karl Pielorz , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, Vincent Poy wrote: > On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, David Schwartz wrote: > > > > No... but I'm just saying that cable properties do change over > > > time. When current flows, there is energy build up... > > > > Yes, cable properties change over time, over months or years, sure. As for > > current flowing causing "energy build up", any magnetic field that's going > > to build around an Ethernet cable due to current flowing through it has > > affected the cable's characteristics as much as it is going to in a tiny > > fraction of a second. > > > > An Ethernet cable does not need to 'warm up'. > > I guess you have a point. There isn't a lot of current flowing > through the ethernet cable anyways. I guess what I am saying is that when > you test something and when you use something, it's totally different. > Just like when you test a HD, you know what the max rate is. But that > doesn't mean that's the same in real world use. I guess, but with an ethernet cable tester (assuming he's not just doing a basic connectivity test) it ought to fully simulate sending some basic bit patterns across the cable. That's the way any of the cable diagnostics hardware I've ever worked with did it. And that should be a completely reasonable indication of soundness. --- tani hosokawa river styx internet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 2:47:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from caladan.tdx.co.uk (caladan.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8142514C08 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 02:47:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Received: from tdx.co.uk (lorca-tx.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.242]) by caladan.tdx.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Kp) with ESMTP id KAA02521; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:46:31 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3792F3CB.D9B4503B@tdx.co.uk> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:45:47 +0100 From: Karl Pielorz Organization: TDX - The Digital eXchange X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tani Hosokawa Cc: Vincent Poy , David Schwartz , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tani Hosokawa wrote: > I guess, but with an ethernet cable tester (assuming he's not just doing a > basic connectivity test) it ought to fully simulate sending some basic bit > patterns across the cable. That's the way any of the cable diagnostics > hardware I've ever worked with did it. And that should be a completely > reasonable indication of soundness. They do... The tester a friend of mine has, has two ends to it. The unit tests all the pairs + other spec (crosstalk, impeadance, attenuation etc.), and can send test data between the two ends as well - recording the number of errors etc. per minute/hour/Mb. Very expensive / cool bit of kit... You can plug it into a running LAN as well, and it will draw usage graphs etc. :) -Kp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 3: 0:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gate2.consol.de (gate2.consol.de [194.221.87.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5CA114C08; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 03:00:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Michael.Elbel@consol.de) X-Envelope-Sender-Is: Michael.Elbel@consol.de (at relayer gate2.consol.de) Received: from msgsrv.bb.consol.de (root@msgsrv.bb.consol.de [10.250.0.100]) by gate2.consol.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA20986; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:57:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from fourier.int.consol.de (fourier.int.consol.de [10.0.1.17]) by msgsrv.bb.consol.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05151; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:57:13 +0200 Received: (from me@localhost) by fourier.int.consol.de (8.9.3/8.8.7) id LAA30198; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:57:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from me) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:57:11 +0200 From: Michael Elbel To: Peter Dufault Cc: ni@tellique.de, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, garyj@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IA64 Message-ID: <19990719115706.C25980@consol.de> References: <19990716132849.A36231@consol.de> <199907161838.OAA10165@hda.hda.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199907161838.OAA10165@hda.hda.com>; from Peter Dufault on Fri, Jul 16, 1999 at 02:38:06PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jul 16, 1999 at 02:38:06PM -0400, Peter Dufault wrote: > > Yeah I remember that there was somebody like Convex (was it Convex, Gary) > > who were interested in OEMing the Fireboxes as workstation type boxes > > together with their own multiprocessor i860 machines. > > It was Alliant with BSD based Concentrix on the FX/2800 series. > I used to do real time work for them prior to their bankruptcy. Bingo. That's the one. Michael -- \|/ -O- Michael Elbel, ConSol* GmbH, - me@consol.de - 089 / 45841-256 /|\ Fermentation fault (coors dumped) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 3: 0:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gate2.consol.de (gate2.consol.de [194.221.87.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9030614C08 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 03:00:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Michael.Elbel@consol.de) X-Envelope-Sender-Is: Michael.Elbel@consol.de (at relayer gate2.consol.de) Received: from msgsrv.bb.consol.de (root@msgsrv.bb.consol.de [10.250.0.100]) by gate2.consol.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21039 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:59:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from fourier.int.consol.de (fourier.int.consol.de [10.0.1.17]) by msgsrv.bb.consol.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05450 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:59:10 +0200 Received: (from me@localhost) by fourier.int.consol.de (8.9.3/8.8.7) id LAA30288 for chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:59:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from me) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:59:08 +0200 From: Michael Elbel To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IA64 Message-ID: <19990719115904.D25980@consol.de> References: <19990716132849.A36231@consol.de> <199907162033.WAA12541@peedub.muc.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199907162033.WAA12541@peedub.muc.de>; from Gary Jennejohn on Fri, Jul 16, 1999 at 10:33:44PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jul 16, 1999 at 10:33:44PM +0200, Gary Jennejohn wrote: > NOTE: I don't subscribe to -chat, so Cc me. > > I have no idea who asked about buying one of these things, since Michael > seems to have deleted that. Grumble. That's what you get if you cut *too much*. I've passed the info on. -- \|/ -O- Michael Elbel, ConSol* GmbH, - me@consol.de - 089 / 45841-256 /|\ Fermentation fault (coors dumped) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 4:46:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from kirk.giovannelli.it (kirk.giovannelli.it [194.184.65.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6549714DD2 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 04:46:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gmarco@giovannelli.it) Received: from giovannelli.it (ppp-massa52-64-34.iol.it [212.52.64.34]) by kirk.giovannelli.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14041 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:45:06 GMT (envelope-from gmarco@giovannelli.it) Message-ID: <37931080.C5917A44@giovannelli.it> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:48:16 +0200 From: Gianmarco Giovannelli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Installing Linux (and bootblocks) References: <4.2.0.58.19990718101705.00ccb720@localhost> <4.1.19990718224838.01324160@194.184.65.4> <19990719134536.K65436@freebie.lemis.com> <19990719095612.41282@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990719172747.A72625@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >> *whole* lot better than UnixWare, but so far everything has been. > > > > Wow, I tried that yesterday, it took _hours_! > > But it worked at the end? It didn't like my Dell Latitude at all. I installed it in 10/15 minutes, but when it reboots (and I think I was finished everything ) ... the hell begin :-) dselect is , like you said, an expert stuff only... and even if I am not a newbie anymore I was quite in bad waters when I have to choose the pkgs... Not because I don't know how to install, but because the dselect interface is , IMHO, bad and cryptic... I'd like to open another topic: Why bootblock won't boot any Linux installation except Debian ? I am now at seaside, with a modem and I can report my configs... This is my drive : seaside:/tmp# fdisk -t wd0 ******* Working on device /dev/rwd0 ******* parameters extracted from in-core disklabel are: cylinders=1247 heads=255 sectors/track=63 (16065 blks/cyl) Figures below won't work with BIOS for partitions not in cyl 1 parameters to be used for BIOS calculations are: cylinders=1247 heads=255 sectors/track=63 (16065 blks/cyl) Media sector size is 512 Warning: BIOS sector numbering starts with sector 1 Information from DOS bootblock is: The data for partition 1 is: sysid 11,(DOS or Windows 95 with 32 bit FAT) start 63, size 8193087 (4000 Meg), flag 0 beg: cyl 0/ sector 1/ head 1; end: cyl 509/ sector 63/ head 254 The data for partition 2 is: sysid 165,(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) start 8193150, size 8177085 (3992 Meg), flag 80 (active) beg: cyl 510/ sector 1/ head 0; end: cyl 1018/ sector 63/ head 254 The data for partition 3 is: sysid 131,(Linux filesystem) start 16370235, size 3389715 (1655 Meg), flag 0 beg: cyl 1019/ sector 1/ head 0; end: cyl 1023/ sector 63/ head 254 The data for partition 4 is: sysid 130,(Linux swap or Solaris x86) start 19759950, size 273105 (133 Meg), flag 0 beg: cyl 1023/ sector 63/ head 255; end: cyl 1023/ sector 63/ head 254 So there are 4 primary partitions, but the boot block which boot0cfg -B wd0 installs is not able to boot linux other than debian 2.1. I have tried: Redhat 5.2, 6.0 Suse 6.1 Slackware 3.6 TurboLinux 2.0 Caldera 1.3 Stampede Linux Debian 2.1 (a little OT to say thanks to Jordan for been able to make the best install I have seen. FreeBSD is far better than all these , it's easy and simple...) (another little OT: all this distributions come for FREE on Italian computer magazines. Jordan can you contact them, I can give you the address and eventually translate what you want to say them, for saying that sometimes they can also tried to distribuite a copy of FreeBSD ?) But let's return to the main topic... Every installation use the same partitions (the last 2) but only Debian seems to be able to reboot and restart... Is it possible that it is something related to the HD cyls where the Linux kernel finish during installation ?? Debian is the one that install less thing at the begin... When I press F3 (F3 Linux) at the boot start the computer only beeps and the nothing starts... -- Regards... Gianmarco "Unix expert since yesterday" http://www.giovannelli.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 6: 2:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from c2-9-dbn.dial-up.net (c2-9-dbn.dial-up.net [196.34.155.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7992A15171 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 06:02:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rnordier@nordier.com) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by ceia.nordier.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id PAA20389; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:00:14 +0200 (SAST) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199907191300.PAA20389@ceia.nordier.com> Subject: Re: Installing Linux (and bootblocks) In-Reply-To: <37931080.C5917A44@giovannelli.it> from Gianmarco Giovannelli at "Jul 19, 1999 01:48:16 pm" To: gmarco@giovannelli.it (Gianmarco Giovannelli) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:00:13 +0200 (SAST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Why bootblock won't boot any Linux installation except Debian ? > The data for partition 3 is: > sysid 131,(Linux filesystem) > start 16370235, size 3389715 (1655 Meg), flag 0 > beg: cyl 1019/ sector 1/ head 0; > end: cyl 1023/ sector 63/ head 254 > So there are 4 primary partitions, but the boot block which boot0cfg -B > wd0 installs is not able to boot linux other than debian 2.1. > Every installation use the same partitions (the last 2) but only Debian > seems to be able to reboot and restart... > Is it possible that it is something related to the HD cyls where the > Linux kernel finish during installation ?? Debian is the one that > install less thing at the begin... This is quite likely to be the case. When I last looked at the Linux boot code, it used the standard BIOS int 0x13 interface. Therefore, everything that the boot code needs to access must be below cylinder 1024. -- Robert Nordier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 8: 8:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dt011n65.san.rr.com (dt011n65.san.rr.com [204.210.13.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26F0C15217 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:08:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (master [10.0.0.2]) by dt011n65.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA13685; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:06:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Message-ID: <37933F09.F2BAD30F@gorean.org> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:06:49 -0700 From: Doug Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Francisco Reyes Cc: Chris Silva , FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Another slogan? References: <199907180014.UAA02126@arutam.inch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Francisco Reyes wrote: > > On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 18:02:51 -0500, Chris Silva wrote: > > >Hello , > > > >How do you all feel about this for a slogan: > >FreeBSD: You ain't seen nuthin' yet! > > I feel this was best sent to chat. :-) Actually, -advocacy would have been a better choice. Doug To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 10:19:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87462151D1 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:19:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id XAA79809; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 23:18:49 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 23:18:49 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Conrad Sabatier Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sanity regained -- back with the best Message-ID: <19990718231849.A77788@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Conrad Sabatier on Sun, Jul 18, 1999 at 04:36:32AM -0500 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Conrad, On Sun, Jul 18, 1999 at 04:36:32AM -0500, Conrad Sabatier wrote: > Feels so good to be back with FreeBSD. I cannot believe the difference > between it and Linux. Linux's multitasking can't hold a candle to > FreeBSD's. No sir, no way, no how. Tried playing MP3s under Linux on > this 166 MHz box; choppy, choppy, choppy. Under FreeBSD, smooth as > butter. Simply no comparison. And the RPM system doesn't even come > close, IMHO, to matching FreeBSD's ports/packages system. Everything in > FreeBSD just feels better, what can I say? You have been a bad, bad, boy, and we are going to have to punish you. The FreeBSD Documentation Project is in dire need of a "FreeBSD for Linux Users" tutorial, that goes through the major differences between FreeBSD and Linux, and can be read by a RedHat or Debian user to get themselves up to speed. It doesn't need to be too complex. For example, you could have paragraphs like You might be familiar with RedHat's RPM system, or Debian's .deb files, to help automate the installation and registration of complex software (in both source and binary form). FreeBSD has a similar mechanism, called the ports/package system. "ports" are for automating the process of distributing source code, then compiling it and installing it on a FreeBSD system. "packages" are for automating the installation of pre-built binaries on a FreeBSD system. The equivalent commends are RPM Debian FreeBSD XXX XXX pkg_add ... XXX XXX pkg_info ... XXX XXX pkg_delete ... and so on. D'you get the idea? If you can (a) write this, and (b) promise the maintain it, we'll be persuaded to forgive you, OK :-) Cheers, N (Doc. Proj. Manager) -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 11: 2: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from avarice.riverstyx.net (hq-port-97.harbour-dhcp-pool.infinetgroup.com [207.23.37.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C91F3153B5 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:02:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from avarice (unknown@avarice [207.23.37.97]) by avarice.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08481; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:55:58 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:55:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Tani Hosokawa To: Vincent Poy Cc: David Schwartz , Karl Pielorz , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, Vincent Poy wrote: > > I guess, but with an ethernet cable tester (assuming he's not just doing a > > basic connectivity test) it ought to fully simulate sending some basic bit > > patterns across the cable. That's the way any of the cable diagnostics > > hardware I've ever worked with did it. And that should be a completely > > reasonable indication of soundness. > > And that still doesn't work the same way as in the real world. > Pretty much like with our experience with the ETinc router card... The > other one works fine but this one pasts all tests and even those with a > FireBird and a T-Bird... The problem only happens with incoming data of > large packets hanging at certain times of the day. And you think that the cable is causing this? --- tani hosokawa river styx internet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 11:23:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4014C14C04 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:23:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00582; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:23:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd000540; Mon Jul 19 11:23:05 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA07700; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:22:57 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199907191822.LAA07700@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? To: davids@webmaster.com (David Schwartz) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:22:57 +0000 (GMT) Cc: vince@venus.GAIANET.NET, kpielorz@tdx.co.uk, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <000001bed1bd$7b34e200$021d85d1@youwant.to> from "David Schwartz" at Jul 19, 99 01:05:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Magnetic energy building up over a period of time on an Ethernet cable? Are > you one of those people who waits a few minutes before opening the microwave > door? Heh. This reminds me. My Uncle Stan is one of the people on one of the microwave oven patents (he's a long-time engineer at Boeing, which did developement on them for use as in-flight ovens). My uncle refuses to have a microwave oven in his house. I quote below his reasoning for this: "They cook your gonies." Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 13:46:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from venus.GAIANET.NET (venus.GAIANET.NET [207.211.200.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B69B214FDC for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:46:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@venus.GAIANET.NET) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by venus.GAIANET.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31736; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:43:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@venus.GAIANET.NET) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:42:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Poy To: Thomas Keusch Cc: US FreeBSD Chat Mailing List Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? In-Reply-To: <19990719172438.C2321@dante.visionaire.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, Thomas Keusch wrote: > On Sat, Jul 17, 1999 at 04:49:45PM -0700, Vincent Poy wrote: > > > Heh. Wouldn't it be nice if Delphi was available for FreeBSD or > > binary compable with something FreeBSD emulates? :-) > > I think it is going to be ported to Linux? > Checkout www.slashdot.org It kinda figures that people will support Linux first. Cheers, Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate / / / / | / | __] ] Beverly Hills, California USA 90210 / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 14: 3:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from venus.GAIANET.NET (venus.GAIANET.NET [207.211.200.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D82B714EA5 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:03:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@venus.GAIANET.NET) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by venus.GAIANET.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31920; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:02:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@venus.GAIANET.NET) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:02:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Poy To: Tani Hosokawa Cc: David Schwartz , Karl Pielorz , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, Tani Hosokawa wrote: > On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, Vincent Poy wrote: > > > > I guess, but with an ethernet cable tester (assuming he's not just doing a > > > basic connectivity test) it ought to fully simulate sending some basic bit > > > patterns across the cable. That's the way any of the cable diagnostics > > > hardware I've ever worked with did it. And that should be a completely > > > reasonable indication of soundness. > > > > And that still doesn't work the same way as in the real world. > > Pretty much like with our experience with the ETinc router card... The > > other one works fine but this one pasts all tests and even those with a > > FireBird and a T-Bird... The problem only happens with incoming data of > > large packets hanging at certain times of the day. > > And you think that the cable is causing this? Nope, I never said it was the cable... Tests aren't 100% as reliable as we want them to be since everything from point A to point B tested fine... Cheers, Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate / / / / | / | __] ] Beverly Hills, California USA 90210 / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 14:51:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from icicle.winternet.com (icicle.winternet.com [198.174.169.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96C5C14FCD for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:51:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nrahlstr@mail.winternet.com) Received: from tundra.winternet.com (nrahlstr@tundra.winternet.com [198.174.169.11]) by icicle.winternet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06752; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:51:37 -0500 (CDT) SMTP "HELO" (ESMTP) greeting from tundra.winternet.com But _really_ from :: nrahlstr@tundra.winternet.com [198.174.169.11] SMTP "MAIL From" = nrahlstr@mail.winternet.com (Nathan Ahlstrom) SMTP "RCPT To" = Received: (from nrahlstr@localhost) by tundra.winternet.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA21628; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:51:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990719165136.B21295@winternet.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:51:36 -0500 From: Nathan Ahlstrom To: Allen Campbell Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: New package system (was Re: Sanity regained -- back with the best) Mail-Followup-To: Allen Campbell , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org References: <4.2.0.58.19990718101705.00ccb720@localhost> <37924170.49BA7266@verinet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <37924170.49BA7266@verinet.com>; from Allen Campbell on Sun, Jul 18, 1999 at 03:04:48PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> Speaking of which, what is the status of FreeBSD's new >> ports/packages system? > > When I last inquired, the new code was not far enough along to leave the > nest yet. The other concern is it requires egcs (template support is > key I believe,) and a few other tools which had not imported into the > tree yet. This was sometime around 3.1-RELEASE. > > Jordan provided this information. Please forgive me if I am > paraphrasing incorrectly. An update would be helpful. ftp://zippy.cdrom.com/pub/libh.tar.gz This is a sorta working snapshot of the new sysinstall stuff (I think it also has the package stuff in it too). You need egcs, tcl, qt, and tvision. Jordan didn't want to be bothered by lots of people asking how to compile it. I did get some of it running, so if you need to ask some questions, let me know. [See the thread on -hackers Re: Lizard... from a few weeks ago] The bottom line is that it looks damn cool, but the code is a bitch to read and follow. ;-) Nathan -- Nathan Ahlstrom FreeBSD: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ nrahlstr@winternet.com PGP Key ID: 0x67BC9D19 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 15:18:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43E6114F27 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:18:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id WAA49374; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:21:46 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:21:45 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Francisco Reyes Cc: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: When should vendors be removed from Gallery? Message-ID: <19990719222145.A49254@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <199906240509.BAA23161@arutam.inch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199906240509.BAA23161@arutam.inch.com>; from Francisco Reyes on Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 01:10:38AM -0400 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 01:10:38AM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > The vendor where I used to buy my systems has taken a Linux advocacy > mode. > > They even added "Linux solutions" to their name and removed the > "Powered by FreeBSD logo" off their site even though they are still > using a FreeBSD box to host their site. > > Is this enough reason to remove them off the Gallery of vendors? Would've thought so. Who was this? N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 16:17:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com (cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com [24.6.21.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 184B814DF2 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:17:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from conrads@cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com) Received: (from conrads@localhost) by cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id SAA08075; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:15:48 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990718231849.A77788@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:15:48 -0500 (CDT) Organization: @Home Network From: Conrad Sabatier To: Nik Clayton Subject: Re: Sanity regained -- back with the best Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 18-Jul-99 Nik Clayton wrote: > Conrad, > > You have been a bad, bad, boy, and we are going to have to punish you. > > The FreeBSD Documentation Project is in dire need of a "FreeBSD for Linux > Users" tutorial, that goes through the major differences between FreeBSD > and Linux, and can be read by a RedHat or Debian user to get themselves > up to speed. > > It doesn't need to be too complex. For example, you could have > paragraphs like > > You might be familiar with RedHat's RPM system, or Debian's .deb files, > to help automate the installation and registration of complex software > (in both source and binary form). FreeBSD has a similar mechanism, > called the ports/package system. "ports" are for automating the > process of distributing source code, then compiling it and installing > it on a FreeBSD system. "packages" are for automating the installation > of pre-built binaries on a FreeBSD system. > > The equivalent commends are > > RPM Debian FreeBSD > > XXX XXX pkg_add ... > XXX XXX pkg_info ... > XXX XXX pkg_delete ... > > and so on. D'you get the idea? > > If you can (a) write this, and (b) promise the maintain it, we'll be > persuaded to forgive you, OK :-) > > Cheers, > > N (Doc. Proj. Manager) Sounds like I've got an interesting new project before me. :-) Only thing is, I don't have any Linux experience other than with RedHat. Never tried any other distributions. So, for Debian, or others, I'll be needing some input from others. But yes, sounds doable. Not sure how unbiased it'll be, though. :-) ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Conrad Sabatier Date: 19-Jul-99 Time: 18:12:29 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 16:28: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (D5684.DIALUP.CORNELL.EDU [128.253.49.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BC0F14E8C for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:27:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) Received: from localhost (cjc26@localhost) by tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07098; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:26:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) X-Authentication-Warning: tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net: cjc26 owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:26:48 -0400 (EDT) From: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality X-Sender: cjc26@tankgrrl To: Conrad Sabatier Cc: Nik Clayton , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sanity regained -- back with the best In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, Conrad Sabatier wrote: | Only thing is, I don't have any Linux experience other than with RedHat. Never | tried any other distributions. So, for Debian, or others, I'll be needing some | input from others. I've got lots of Debian experience..I'd be willing to help out with this. -- cliff crawford http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/ I am root, hear me kill -9. -><- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 16:29:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from avarice.riverstyx.net (hq-port-97.harbour-dhcp-pool.infinetgroup.com [207.23.37.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0DF214CCD for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:29:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from avarice (unknown@avarice [207.23.37.97]) by avarice.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13461; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:29:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:29:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Tani Hosokawa To: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality Cc: Conrad Sabatier , Nik Clayton , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sanity regained -- back with the best In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality wrote: > On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, Conrad Sabatier wrote: > > | Only thing is, I don't have any Linux experience other than with RedHat. Never > | tried any other distributions. So, for Debian, or others, I'll be needing some > | input from others. > > I've got lots of Debian experience..I'd be willing to help out with this. I at one point in time was an avid Slackware user, so if I can be of any assistance... I'm also a current RedHat user. --- tani hosokawa river styx internet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 16:38:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com (cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com [24.6.21.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DD2515314 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:38:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from conrads@cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com) Received: (from conrads@localhost) by cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id SAA08164; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:34:55 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:34:55 -0500 (CDT) Organization: @Home Network From: Conrad Sabatier To: Tani Hosokawa Subject: Re: Sanity regained -- back with the best Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Nik Clayton , a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 19-Jul-99 Tani Hosokawa wrote: > On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of > reality wrote: > >> On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, Conrad Sabatier wrote: >> >> | Only thing is, I don't have any Linux experience other than with >> | RedHat. Never tried any other distributions. So, for Debian, or >> | others, I'll be needing some input from others. >> >> I've got lots of Debian experience..I'd be willing to help out >> with this. > > I at one point in time was an avid Slackware user, so if I can be > of any assistance... I'm also a current RedHat user. Looks like we're getting a team together here. :-) Anyone else out there with any experience with other distros? ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Conrad Sabatier Date: 19-Jul-99 Time: 18:32:11 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 16:56:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6749D15109 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:56:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA13796; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:24:37 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id JAA75781; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:24:28 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:24:28 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Gianmarco Giovannelli Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Installing Linux (and bootblocks) Message-ID: <19990720092427.J72885@freebie.lemis.com> References: <4.2.0.58.19990718101705.00ccb720@localhost> <4.1.19990718224838.01324160@194.184.65.4> <19990719134536.K65436@freebie.lemis.com> <19990719095612.41282@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990719172747.A72625@freebie.lemis.com> <37931080.C5917A44@giovannelli.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <37931080.C5917A44@giovannelli.it>; from Gianmarco Giovannelli on Mon, Jul 19, 1999 at 01:48:16PM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 19 July 1999 at 13:48:16 +0200, Gianmarco Giovannelli wrote: >>>> *whole* lot better than UnixWare, but so far everything has been. >>> >>> Wow, I tried that yesterday, it took _hours_! >> >> But it worked at the end? It didn't like my Dell Latitude at all. > > I installed it in 10/15 minutes, but when it reboots (and I think I was > finished everything ) ... the hell begin :-) > > dselect is , like you said, an expert stuff only... and even if I am not > a newbie anymore I was quite in bad waters when I have to choose the > pkgs... Not because I don't know how to install, but because the dselect > interface is , IMHO, bad and cryptic... > > I'd like to open another topic: > Why bootblock won't boot any Linux installation except Debian ? It boots my RedHat 5.2 just fine. > I am now at seaside, with a modem and I can report my configs... > > This is my drive : > seaside:/tmp# fdisk -t wd0 > ******* Working on device /dev/rwd0 ******* > parameters extracted from in-core disklabel are: > cylinders=1247 heads=255 sectors/track=63 (16065 blks/cyl) > > Figures below won't work with BIOS for partitions not in cyl 1 > parameters to be used for BIOS calculations are: > cylinders=1247 heads=255 sectors/track=63 (16065 blks/cyl) > > Media sector size is 512 > Warning: BIOS sector numbering starts with sector 1 > Information from DOS bootblock is: > The data for partition 1 is: > sysid 11,(DOS or Windows 95 with 32 bit FAT) > start 63, size 8193087 (4000 Meg), flag 0 > beg: cyl 0/ sector 1/ head 1; > end: cyl 509/ sector 63/ head 254 > The data for partition 2 is: > sysid 165,(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) > start 8193150, size 8177085 (3992 Meg), flag 80 (active) > beg: cyl 510/ sector 1/ head 0; > end: cyl 1018/ sector 63/ head 254 > The data for partition 3 is: > sysid 131,(Linux filesystem) > start 16370235, size 3389715 (1655 Meg), flag 0 > beg: cyl 1019/ sector 1/ head 0; > end: cyl 1023/ sector 63/ head 254 > The data for partition 4 is: > sysid 130,(Linux swap or Solaris x86) > start 19759950, size 273105 (133 Meg), flag 0 > beg: cyl 1023/ sector 63/ head 255; > end: cyl 1023/ sector 63/ head 254 That looks pretty much the same as mine, except for the order, which a trial installation of UnixWare screwed up. Did you know that RedHat 5.2 claims you can't use more than 127 MB of swap? > So there are 4 primary partitions, but the boot block which boot0cfg -B > wd0 installs is not able to boot linux other than debian 2.1. > > I have tried: > Redhat 5.2, 6.0 > Suse 6.1 > Slackware 3.6 > TurboLinux 2.0 > Caldera 1.3 > Stampede Linux > Debian 2.1 > > (a little OT to say thanks to Jordan for been able to make the best > install I have seen. FreeBSD is far better than all these , it's easy > and simple...) Agreed. I was surprised how bumpy the RedHat installation was. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 17: 6:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from avarice.riverstyx.net (hq-port-97.harbour-dhcp-pool.infinetgroup.com [207.23.37.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC11C152C3 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:06:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from avarice (unknown@avarice [207.23.37.97]) by avarice.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14288; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:05:21 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:05:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Tani Hosokawa To: Greg Lehey Cc: Gianmarco Giovannelli , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Installing Linux (and bootblocks) In-Reply-To: <19990720092427.J72885@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > That looks pretty much the same as mine, except for the order, which a > trial installation of UnixWare screwed up. Did you know that RedHat > 5.2 claims you can't use more than 127 MB of swap? Because you can't. You can make a swap partition that's bigger, but it'll truncate it when it activates it, so you're just wasting disk space. If you want more, make multiple partitions. In the 2.2.x kernel you can have larger swap spaces, but RH5.2 is 2.0.36-based. --- tani hosokawa river styx internet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 18: 4:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA59D15167 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:04:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-15-192.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.15.192]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA16860; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:02:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05797; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:45:23 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199907200045.TAA05797@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Greg Lehey Cc: John Birrell , Gianmarco Giovannelli , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best) In-reply-to: Message from Greg Lehey of "Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:29:16 +0930." <19990719142916.P65436@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:45:22 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey writes: > Shhh, I was waiting for somebody to ask some questions. And then I > was going to mention Darwin :-) I think the Darwin reference went over everybody's heads. Wasn't aware Darwin was running on wintel hardware. If I ever find a day to kill I'll download the latest from Apple and try it on my PowerMac. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 18:11:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE66315272 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:11:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-15-192.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.15.192]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA19977; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:11:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06157; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:11:29 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199907200111.UAA06157@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Nik Clayton Cc: Francisco Reyes , FreeBSd Chat list From: David Kelly Subject: Re: When should vendors be removed from Gallery? In-reply-to: Message from Nik Clayton of "Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:21:45 BST." <19990719222145.A49254@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:11:29 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nik Clayton writes: > On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 01:10:38AM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > The vendor where I used to buy my systems has taken a Linux advocacy > > mode. > > > > They even added "Linux solutions" to their name and removed the > > "Powered by FreeBSD logo" off their site even though they are still > > using a FreeBSD box to host their site. > > > > Is this enough reason to remove them off the Gallery of vendors? > > Would've thought so. Who was this? Sounds like Atipa, http://www.atipa.com/. I've since found better alternatives. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 18:13:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BF0314CC0 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:13:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA25657; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:16:18 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199907200116.LAA25657@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best) In-Reply-To: <199907200045.TAA05797@nospam.hiwaay.net> from David Kelly at "Jul 19, 1999 07:45:22 pm" To: dkelly@hiwaay.net (David Kelly) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:16:17 +1000 (EST) Cc: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey), jb@cimlogic.com.au (John Birrell), gmarco@scotty.masternet.it (Gianmarco Giovannelli), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Kelly wrote: > Greg Lehey writes: > > Shhh, I was waiting for somebody to ask some questions. And then I > > was going to mention Darwin :-) > > I think the Darwin reference went over everybody's heads. Wasn't aware > Darwin was running on wintel hardware. If I ever find a day to kill > I'll download the latest from Apple and try it on my PowerMac. Chuckle. I'd like to see you download the Darwin that Greg was referring to. Question: What do NT and Darwin have in common? (No answers from Australians, please). -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 18:17:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0646715112 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:17:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA14138; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:47:50 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id KAA76236; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:47:49 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:47:48 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: John Birrell Cc: David Kelly , Gianmarco Giovannelli , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Darwin (was: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best)) Message-ID: <19990720104748.U72885@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199907200045.TAA05797@nospam.hiwaay.net> <199907200116.LAA25657@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199907200116.LAA25657@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Tue, Jul 20, 1999 at 11:16:17AM +1000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 20 July 1999 at 11:16:17 +1000, John Birrell wrote: > David Kelly wrote: >> Greg Lehey writes: >>> Shhh, I was waiting for somebody to ask some questions. And then I >>> was going to mention Darwin :-) >> >> I think the Darwin reference went over everybody's heads. Wasn't aware >> Darwin was running on wintel hardware. If I ever find a day to kill >> I'll download the latest from Apple and try it on my PowerMac. > > Chuckle. I'd like to see you download the Darwin that Greg was referring > to. Question: What do NT and Darwin have in common? > > (No answers from Australians, please). Well, this isn't an answer, but yes, it looks like it went over David's head as well. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 18:56:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from queasy.outpost.co.nz (outpost2.inspire.net.nz [203.96.157.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 266B315112 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:56:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crh@outpost.co.nz) Received: (qmail 67908 invoked from network); 20 Jul 1999 01:54:48 -0000 Received: from officedonkey.outpost.co.nz (HELO officedonkey) (192.168.1.3) by queasy.outpost.co.nz with SMTP; 20 Jul 1999 01:54:48 -0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Craig Harding" Organization: Outpost Digital Media Ltd To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:47:14 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best Reply-To: crh@outpost.co.nz In-reply-to: <199907200116.LAA25657@cimlogic.com.au> References: <199907200045.TAA05797@nospam.hiwaay.net> from David Kelly at "Jul 19, 1999 07:45:22 pm" X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-Id: <19990720015621.266B315112@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John Birrell wrote: > Chuckle. I'd like to see you download the Darwin that Greg was > referring to. Question: What do NT and Darwin have in common? Geography? -- C. -- Craig Harding crh@outpost.co.nz "I don't know about God, I Outpost Digital Media Ltd crh@inspire.net.nz just think we're handmade" http://www.outpost.co.nz ICQ# 26701833 - Polly To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 19: 0:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7343915112 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:00:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA25790; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:03:35 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199907200203.MAA25790@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best In-Reply-To: <19990720015621.266B315112@hub.freebsd.org> from Craig Harding at "Jul 20, 1999 01:47:14 pm" To: crh@outpost.co.nz Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:03:35 +1000 (EST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Craig Harding wrote: > John Birrell wrote: > > > Chuckle. I'd like to see you download the Darwin that Greg was > > referring to. Question: What do NT and Darwin have in common? > > Geography? Yup. (I should have excluded Kiwis too 8-) -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 19: 1:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3166D14D28 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:01:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA14241; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:29:50 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA76377; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:29:48 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:29:48 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Craig Harding Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best Message-ID: <19990720112948.W72885@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199907200045.TAA05797@nospam.hiwaay.net> <199907200116.LAA25657@cimlogic.com.au> <19990720015621.266B315112@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990720015621.266B315112@hub.freebsd.org>; from Craig Harding on Tue, Jul 20, 1999 at 01:47:14PM +1200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 20 July 1999 at 13:47:14 +1200, Craig Harding wrote: > John Birrell wrote: > >> Chuckle. I'd like to see you download the Darwin that Greg was >> referring to. Question: What do NT and Darwin have in common? > > Geography? For the purposes of this question, you count as an Australian. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 19:10:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.click2net.com (mail.click2net.com [216.94.59.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADA3F14C05 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:10:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from geoff@click2net.com) Received: from click2net.com (sparrow.click2net.com [216.94.59.226]) by mail.click2net.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA17751 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:10:10 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from geoff@click2net.com) Message-ID: <3793DA7A.73854BEA@click2net.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:10:02 -0400 From: Geoffrey Robinson Organization: Click2net inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: PAO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org NB: Please reply to me directly, I'm not on the list pertinent data: FreeBSD 3.2R on a SONY VAIO laptop, PAO3-19990605 version I just installed PAO on my SONY VAIO in hopes of getting my 3COM 3CXE589ET PCMCIA eithernet card working. When I boot the laptop with the PAO install floppies it finds the card and it works because I was able to download the PAO distributions from the FTP site through it. However when I reboot the system after the install I get the following errors. - - - Initial rc.pccard configuration: pcic-memory=0xd0000 pccardc: /dev/card0: Device not configured execute pccardd pccard-beep=2 pccardc: /dev/card0: Device not configured . Doinf initial network setup: hostname. ifconfig: interface ep0 does not exist ifconfig: interface ep0 does not exist lo0: flags=8049 mtu 16384 inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 route: writing to routing socket: Network is unreachable - - - Typical startup stuff follows then syslogd pukes with the error. syslogd: syslog/udp: unknown service syslogd: child pid 107 exited with return code 1 I'm sure I've missed somthing stupid but I can see it. I can get a 3com 3c589 as listed in the release notes as a last resort. Does anybody have one of these working? thanks in advance for any help. -- Geoffrey Robinson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 19:12:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.click2net.com (mail.click2net.com [216.94.59.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2000115024 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:12:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from geoff@click2net.com) Received: from click2net.com (sparrow.click2net.com [216.94.59.226]) by mail.click2net.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA17765 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:13:03 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from geoff@click2net.com) Message-ID: <3793DB26.B1E5A294@click2net.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:12:54 -0400 From: Geoffrey Robinson Organization: Click2net inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: [PAO] Oops Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Apologies for sending that question about PAO to chat. It was meant for question Again, sorry -- Geoffrey Robinson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 19:18:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from queasy.outpost.co.nz (outpost2.inspire.net.nz [203.96.157.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 05BA214C9A for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:18:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crh@outpost.co.nz) Received: (qmail 67983 invoked from network); 20 Jul 1999 02:17:40 -0000 Received: from officedonkey.outpost.co.nz (HELO officedonkey) (192.168.1.3) by queasy.outpost.co.nz with SMTP; 20 Jul 1999 02:17:40 -0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Craig Harding" Organization: Outpost Digital Media Ltd To: Greg Lehey Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:10:06 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best Reply-To: crh@outpost.co.nz Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19990720112948.W72885@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990720015621.266B315112@hub.freebsd.org>; from Craig Harding on Tue, Jul 20, 1999 at 01:47:14PM +1200 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-Id: <19990720021844.05BA214C9A@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > For the purposes of this question, you count as an Australian. , I knew somebody was going to say that! -- C. PS In my best attempt at trans-Tasman diplomacy, I won't take offence at your suggestion. -- Craig Harding crh@outpost.co.nz "I don't know about God, I Outpost Digital Media Ltd crh@inspire.net.nz just think we're handmade" http://www.outpost.co.nz ICQ# 26701833 - Polly To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 19:24:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A1D914C9A for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:24:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA14327; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:53:07 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA82000; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:53:06 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:53:06 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Craig Harding Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best Message-ID: <19990720115306.D81840@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990720015621.266B315112@hub.freebsd.org>; <19990720112948.W72885@freebie.lemis.com> <199907200218.LAA14307@allegro.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199907200218.LAA14307@allegro.lemis.com>; from Craig Harding on Tue, Jul 20, 1999 at 02:10:06PM +1200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 20 July 1999 at 14:10:06 +1200, Craig Harding wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: > >> For the purposes of this question, you count as an Australian. > > , I knew somebody was going to say that! > > PS In my best attempt at trans-Tasman diplomacy, I won't take > offence at your suggestion. Nor should you. You'll notice the limited scope of the equation :-) Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 20:34: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from avarice.riverstyx.net (hq-port-97.harbour-dhcp-pool.infinetgroup.com [207.23.37.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62D1F14D9D for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:33:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from avarice (unknown@avarice [207.23.37.97]) by avarice.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15488; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:32:56 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:32:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Tani Hosokawa To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Greg Lehey , Gianmarco Giovannelli , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Installing Linux (and bootblocks) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > > That looks pretty much the same as mine, except for the order, which a > > > trial installation of UnixWare screwed up. Did you know that RedHat > > > 5.2 claims you can't use more than 127 MB of swap? > > > > Because you can't. You can make a swap partition that's bigger, but it'll > > truncate it when it activates it, so you're just wasting disk space. If > > you want more, make multiple partitions. In the 2.2.x kernel you can have > > larger swap spaces, but RH5.2 is 2.0.36-based. > > And Linux doesn't round-robin its' swap usage between devices, does it? > > I read that in an OS-comparison type article recently. I really couldn't say. I'm certain that there are distinct performance improvements from having swap space on multiple drives, so I suspect that Linux does round-robin its usage. --- tani hosokawa river styx internet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 20:35:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4578514C83 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:35:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:35:09 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Tani Hosokawa" , "Kris Kennaway" Cc: "Greg Lehey" , "Gianmarco Giovannelli" , Subject: RE: Installing Linux (and bootblocks) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:35:09 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bed260$de1a6e00$021d85d1@youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > And Linux doesn't round-robin its' swap usage between devices, does it? > > > > I read that in an OS-comparison type article recently. > > I really couldn't say. I'm certain that there are distinct performance > improvements from having swap space on multiple drives, so I suspect that > Linux does round-robin its usage. Linux will interleave swap blocks if multiple swap devices are mounted with the same priority. DS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 20:38:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from arutam.inch.com (ns.inch.com [207.240.140.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C958F14C83 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:38:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freyes@inch.com) Received: from your-name (freyes.static.inch.com [207.240.212.43]) by arutam.inch.com (8.9.1a/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA13375; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:36:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907200336.XAA13375@arutam.inch.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "David Kelly" , "Nik Clayton" Cc: "FreeBSd Chat list" Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:37:12 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: When should vendors be removed from Gallery? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:11:29 -0500, David Kelly wrote: >>On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 01:10:38AM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: >>> The vendor .... >>> ... added "Linux solutions" to their name and removed the >>> "Powered by FreeBSD logo" off their site even >>> Is this enough reason to remove them off the Gallery of vendors? >> Would've thought so. Who was this? >Sounds like Atipa, http://www.atipa.com/. I've since found better >alternatives. Yes it is Atipa. They are not bad people, but it is a matter of the FreeBSD gallery should be for companies that offer a service to the FreeBSD community. Atipa no longer seems to be interested in that. I also don't understand how all of a sudden they seem to be ashamed of FreeBSD and won't even list it on the OSs they will install. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 20:43:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mailfw1.ford.com (mailfw1.ford.com [136.1.1.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7B0AE15129 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:43:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from boconno6@ford.com) Received: by mailfw1.ford.com id XAA00366 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 4.2 for chat@freebsd.org); Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:42:58 -0400 Message-Id: <199907200342.XAA00366@mailfw1.ford.com> Received: by mailfw1.ford.com (Internal Mail Agent-2); Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:42:58 -0400 Organization: Ford Motor Company of Australia Limited. ACN 004 116 223 Received: by mailfw1.ford.com (Internal Mail Agent-1); Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:42:58 -0400 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:42:52 +1000 From: "Brian O'Connor. (CF583173) HO 2nd Floor" To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: re: An article about Freebsd Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ron Rosson said; There is a small free magazine put out in CO and San Diego. Well in the edition that came out July 16, 1999 the "I don't do windows" article was about FreeBSD. Here is the URL: http://www.computoredge.com/sandiego/Editorial/idon'tdo.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hmm, not bad; but "Bill Joy, who wrote BSD...." "Suns System V is where the term SysV comes from... " seems incorrect to me, I know that Bill Joy had a hand in the origional BSD but to say he wrote it seems an exaggeration. and I thought that SysV stood for the AT&T releases. Is he right? boc -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian O'Connor Ford Email: boconno6@ford.com Ford Of Australia Ford Telephone: +61 3 93597848 Ford Facsimile: +61 3 93598266 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 20:47:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B78BF14F16 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:47:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA14600; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:17:26 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id NAA83514; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:17:25 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:17:24 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Brian O'Connor. (CF583173) HO 2nd Floor" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: An article about Freebsd Message-ID: <19990720131724.E81840@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199907200342.XAA00366@mailfw1.ford.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199907200342.XAA00366@mailfw1.ford.com>; from Brian O'Connor. (CF583173) HO 2nd Floor on Tue, Jul 20, 1999 at 01:42:52PM +1000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 20 July 1999 at 13:42:52 +1000, Brian O'Connor. (CF583173) HO 2nd Floor wrote: > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ron Rosson said; > > There is a small free magazine put out in CO and San Diego. Well in the > edition that came out July 16, 1999 the "I don't do windows" article was > about FreeBSD. Here is the URL: > > http://www.computoredge.com/sandiego/Editorial/idon'tdo.htm > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Hmm, not bad; but > > "Bill Joy, who wrote BSD...." > "Suns System V is where the term SysV comes from... " > > seems incorrect to me, I know that Bill Joy had a hand in the origional BSD > but to say he wrote it seems an exaggeration. Well, Bill Joy released the original BSD, but he didn't write all the software in it. > and I thought that SysV stood for the AT&T releases. Correct. Sun adopted System V a long time after it was developed. > Is he right? No. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 21: 6:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from avarice.riverstyx.net (hq-port-97.harbour-dhcp-pool.infinetgroup.com [207.23.37.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FD2A14C9A for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:06:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from avarice (unknown@avarice [207.23.37.97]) by avarice.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15796; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:06:09 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:06:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Tani Hosokawa To: "Brian O'Connor. (CF583173) HO 2nd Floor" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: re: An article about Freebsd In-Reply-To: <199907200342.XAA00366@mailfw1.ford.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Brian O'Connor. (CF583173) HO 2nd Floor wrote: > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ron Rosson said; > > There is a small free magazine put out in CO and San Diego. Well in the > edition that came out July 16, 1999 the "I don't do windows" article was > about FreeBSD. Here is the URL: > > http://www.computoredge.com/sandiego/Editorial/idon'tdo.htm > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Hmm, not bad; but > > "Bill Joy, who wrote BSD...." > "Suns System V is where the term SysV comes from... " > > seems incorrect to me, I know that Bill Joy had a hand in the origional BSD > but to say he wrote it seems an exaggeration. > > and I thought that SysV stood for the AT&T releases. Yeah, it's the AT&T SysV... System V is the "SV" in SVR2, SVR3, SVR4, etc. However, it was USG (UNIX Support Group) that developed SysV AFAIK. They're certainly the people that released System V Interface Definition, which says a lot. --- tani hosokawa river styx internet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 21:17:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail0.atl.bellsouth.net (mail0.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DB6515086 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:17:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-73-141.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.73.141]) by mail0.atl.bellsouth.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11749; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 00:15:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wghicks (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id AAA12805; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 00:20:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) Message-Id: <199907200420.AAA12805@bellsouth.net> To: Phil Regnauld Cc: Brett Glass , W Gerald Hicks , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net, wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net Subject: Re: IA64: Back on topic In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:12:31 +0200." <19990718161231.57850@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 00:20:47 -0400 From: W Gerald Hicks Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > He said (paraphrase), "I don't want to have to read/submit myself > to their NDA" != "Intel should unveil everything NOW because I want it" > -- > didn't he ? Actually for my own evil purposes I'm more interested in PowerPC, ARM derivatives, and TI DSP's :) Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 21:24:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59780150A6 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:24:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21734; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:22:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990719170941.00c38e50@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:10:29 -0600 To: Karl Pielorz , Vincent Poy From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <379117F6.5836AD92@tdx.co.uk> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:55 AM 7/18/99 +0100, Karl Pielorz wrote: >Yes, it would!... We (as in Unix) have the free Pascal compiler, which >supports most (if not all) of the Sysutils unit, but it's a long way from >being able to run on the bosses Windows desktop :-) Free Pascal won't compile native binaries for FreeBSD. It's GPLed and supports Linux. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 22:32:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB49D151A0 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:32:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22286 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:29:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990719231734.043bd460@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:29:46 -0600 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Installing Linux (and bootblocks) In-Reply-To: <19990720092427.J72885@freebie.lemis.com> References: <37931080.C5917A44@giovannelli.it> <4.2.0.58.19990718101705.00ccb720@localhost> <4.1.19990718224838.01324160@194.184.65.4> <19990719134536.K65436@freebie.lemis.com> <19990719095612.41282@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990719172747.A72625@freebie.lemis.com> <37931080.C5917A44@giovannelli.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yes, Red Hat will install in (and boot from) a logical drive in an extended partition. This isn't that unusual; OS/2 has done it for years! In fact, it's a good way to go, since with a boot manager that understands this scheme you can have up to 23 OSes co-resident on one machine. The trick is (as I mentioned above) the boot manager. The boot manager is installed in one of the four primary partitions (usually the first), and that partition is permanently marked as "Startable." (If an OS install mucks with that, there's usually a way to give it control again via a floppy disk.) The boot manager, in turn, hands off control to the chosen OS, which resides in one of the other partitions (primary or extended; it doesn't matter). V Communications' System Commander and IBM's Boot Manager both work this way. FreeBSD doesn't come with a boot manager that can do this, but as I understand it you can use a third-party boot manager and partition management program (e.g. System Commander plus Partition Commander) to make it boot out of a primary partition that's not marked as startable. You may also be able to make it boot out of a logical drive, so long as it doesn't freak out when it discovers that it's located there; I haven't tried it. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 19 23:50:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from caladan.tdx.co.uk (caladan.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47CE4150F7 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:50:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Received: from tdx.co.uk (lorca-tx.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.242]) by caladan.tdx.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Kp) with ESMTP id HAA74169; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 07:49:13 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <37941BBC.52FD065D@tdx.co.uk> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 07:48:28 +0100 From: Karl Pielorz Organization: TDX - The Digital eXchange X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: Vincent Poy , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? References: <4.2.0.58.19990719170941.00c38e50@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > At 12:55 AM 7/18/99 +0100, Karl Pielorz wrote: > > >Yes, it would!... We (as in Unix) have the free Pascal compiler, which > >supports most (if not all) of the Sysutils unit, but it's a long way from > >being able to run on the bosses Windows desktop :-) > > Free Pascal won't compile native binaries for FreeBSD. It's GPLed and > supports Linux. Nice... I've not had enough time to look at it recently, a friend found it (and the magical reference to 'Delphi') the other day... I see Borland have a linux survey up at the moment... -Kp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 0:29:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09D3615178 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 00:29:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22895; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 01:29:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990720012651.043e5970@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 01:27:53 -0600 To: Karl Pielorz From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <37941BBC.52FD065D@tdx.co.uk> References: <4.2.0.58.19990719170941.00c38e50@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:48 AM 7/20/99 +0100, Karl Pielorz wrote: >I see Borland have a linux survey up at the moment... Yes, they do! As I mentioned in another thread, be sure to enter "FreeBSD" in the "Other" boxes frequently. We MIGHT get a port. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 1:24: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C59C215248 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 01:23:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id KAA05785; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:22:25 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id KAA35296; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:37:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990720103733.52824@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:37:33 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Installing Linux (and bootblocks) References: <37931080.C5917A44@giovannelli.it> <4.2.0.58.19990718101705.00ccb720@localhost> <4.1.19990718224838.01324160@194.184.65.4> <19990719134536.K65436@freebie.lemis.com> <19990719095612.41282@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990719172747.A72625@freebie.lemis.com> <37931080.C5917A44@giovannelli.it> <19990720092427.J72885@freebie.lemis.com> <4.2.0.58.19990719231734.043bd460@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990719231734.043bd460@localhost>; from Brett Glass on Mon, Jul 19, 1999 at 11:29:46PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > FreeBSD doesn't come with a boot manager that can do this, but as I understand > it you can use a third-party boot manager and partition management program > (e.g. System Commander plus Partition Commander) to make it boot out of > a primary partition that's not marked as startable. FreeBSD can be made to boot from a non-(A)ctive partition -- OS-BS does this (in the tools subdir of the CDRom). -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 7:56:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 256121530A for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 07:56:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id QAA11728 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:55:22 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id RAA36232; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:10:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990720171033.10907@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:10:33 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Oh my, penguins are a'comin': DebianBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Someone wake me up from this nightmare. ------- Forwarded Message From: Gary Kline Subject: Re: The project To: hamish@debian.org (Hamish Moffatt) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Cc: debian-bsd@lists.debian.org > That's a fine idea, but my response is always: to whom would this be valuable? > What is the target audience of the "Debian GNU/FreeBSD" system? Are you hoping > to convert Debian GNU/Linux users, or FreeBSD users? > > > I started with a freshly installed FreeBSD 3.2 system. The standard > > distribution of FreeBSD sucks (IMO of course, but since this is a Debian > > Well, I'd be interested to know what you think sucks so that we can justify > our efforts in the future. I think there are some good things and some > bad things. I don't like the way that FreeBSD packages don't make an effort > to configure themselves for your system, for one thing. > > Lest we (this list) get carried away in self-flagellation or in circular debates over the GPL/BSD licenses, let's agree on the many strengths of each ``side.'' --And I do not see BSD and Linux as *sides*, but participants in the larger open-source tide, BTW. Both Debian and BSD share more good points than have opposing, I think. If the aim of a DebianBSD is to create an open-source system with a superior kernel, then the present FreeBSD effort has that. It stands up to massive loads ... And if an aim is to integrate the unqualified Best software (free or commercial), anything GNU is strictly first-rate. I think that over time (months to a few years) a DebianBSD distribution would attract newer and seasoned users from every corner. Nobody who is hardcore BSD or hardcore Debian is going to be `converted' ... and that's fine. A DBSD would shrinkwrap the best of both. gary > - -- Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service Unix - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org -----End of forwarded message----- -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 8:34:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 900F21531A for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:34:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25891; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:33:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990720092854.00a91100@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:32:54 -0600 To: Phil Regnauld , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Oh my, penguins are a'comin': DebianBSD In-Reply-To: <19990720171033.10907@ns.int.ftf.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This has been talked about many times before, and -- yes -- it is a real danger. The best way to nip such things in the bud is to make FreeBSD development more open (the circle of developers currently works and acts too much like a secret cabal), become more evangelical and inclusive, and get more third-party software support. Then, FreeBSD as an effort would *recruit* the people who are interested in it rather than merely arousing their interest but leaving them in the Linux camp. --Brett Glass At 05:10 PM 7/20/99 +0200, Phil Regnauld wrote: > Someone wake me up from this nightmare. > >------- Forwarded Message > >From: Gary Kline >Subject: Re: The project >To: hamish@debian.org (Hamish Moffatt) >Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:58:00 -0700 (PDT) >Cc: debian-bsd@lists.debian.org > > > That's a fine idea, but my response is always: to whom would this be valuable? > > What is the target audience of the "Debian GNU/FreeBSD" system? Are you hoping > > to convert Debian GNU/Linux users, or FreeBSD users? > > > > > I started with a freshly installed FreeBSD 3.2 system. The standard > > > distribution of FreeBSD sucks (IMO of course, but since this is a Debian > > > > Well, I'd be interested to know what you think sucks so that we can justify > > our efforts in the future. I think there are some good things and some > > bad things. I don't like the way that FreeBSD packages don't make an effort > > to configure themselves for your system, for one thing. > > > > > > Lest we (this list) get carried away in self-flagellation or > in circular debates over the GPL/BSD licenses, let's agree on > the many strengths of each ``side.'' --And I do not see BSD > and Linux as *sides*, but participants in the larger open-source > tide, BTW. > > Both Debian and BSD share more good points than have opposing, > I think. If the aim of a DebianBSD is to create an open-source > system with a superior kernel, then the present FreeBSD effort > has that. It stands up to massive loads ... And if an aim > is to integrate the unqualified Best software (free or commercial), > anything GNU is strictly first-rate. > > I think that over time (months to a few years) a DebianBSD > distribution would attract newer and seasoned users from every > corner. Nobody who is hardcore BSD or hardcore Debian is going > to be `converted' ... and that's fine. > > A DBSD would shrinkwrap the best of both. > > > gary > > > > > > > >- -- > Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service Unix > > >- -- >To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-request@lists.debian.org >with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > > >-----End of forwarded message----- > >-- > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 8:47: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (D5684.DIALUP.CORNELL.EDU [128.253.49.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97A601533E for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:46:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) Received: from localhost (cjc26@localhost) by tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08943; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:46:19 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) X-Authentication-Warning: tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net: cjc26 owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:46:19 -0400 (EDT) From: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality X-Sender: cjc26@tankgrrl To: Brett Glass Cc: Phil Regnauld , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Oh my, penguins are a'comin': DebianBSD In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990720092854.00a91100@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote: | The best way to nip such things in the bud is to | make FreeBSD development more open (the circle of developers | currently works and acts too much like a secret cabal), I think this is a Good Thing. Allowing just anybody to come in and hack the kernel might be nice and democratic, but it doesn't ensure the quality of the code. -- cliff crawford http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/ I am root, hear me kill -9. -><- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 8:57: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1FC14CB0 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:57:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26177; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:56:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990720095349.00a2e250@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:56:54 -0600 To: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Oh my, penguins are a'comin': DebianBSD Cc: Phil Regnauld , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.19990720092854.00a91100@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:46 AM 7/20/99 -0400, a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality wrote: >I think this is a Good Thing. Allowing just anybody to come in and >hack the kernel might be nice and democratic, but it doesn't ensure >the quality of the code. Neither does having too few hands to improve the code -- or turning off capable programmers who might otherwise participate. There's a big difference between peer review (a good thing) and literally chasing developers away and refusing to promote the technology (what FreeBSD is currently doing). --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 9:20:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 969061533C for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:20:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26399; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:19:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990720101206.00be1a80@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:19:38 -0600 To: giffunip@yahoo.com From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Installing Linux (and bootblocks) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <379498AA.DA3685C@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> References: <37931080.C5917A44@giovannelli.it> <4.2.0.58.19990718101705.00ccb720@localhost> <4.1.19990718224838.01324160@194.184.65.4> <19990719134536.K65436@freebie.lemis.com> <19990719095612.41282@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990719172747.A72625@freebie.lemis.com> <37931080.C5917A44@giovannelli.it> <4.2.0.58.19990719231734.043bd460@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:41 AM 7/20/99 -0500, Pedro Fernando Giffuni wrote: >Brett Glass escribi=F3: > >=20 > > Yes, Red Hat will install in (and boot from) a logical drive in an= extended > > partition. This isn't that unusual; OS/2 has done it for years! In fact, > > it's a good way to go, since with a boot manager that understands this= scheme > > you can have up to 23 OSes co-resident on one machine. > >=20 >Oops.. I was going to say Brett was wrong, but I checked the OS/2 Warp 3 >documentation and there is an example of exactly this. It is evidently a >bootmanager trick, however OS/2's boot manger uses a partition for >itself, something really undesirable. It's a good way of preserving the boot manager in the event that another OS is installed. All you need to do is make the manager's primary=20 partition bootable again after the install, and the boot manager is in=20 control once more. If you can boot your OS from a logical drive in an= extended partition, there's no downside, since primary partitions are no lonber such= a=20 valuable commodity! There are other ways to go, such as creating a custom boot sector, but this is prone to problems. Too many OSes, such as NT, wipe out custom boot= sectors. And those sectors are sometimes needed for BIOS extension utilities that allow older machines to accept large hard drives. This may be why PowerQuest ships IBM's boot manager with PartitionMagic. >FWIW, I was unable to get a logical drive recognized by FreeBSD's >installer, our fdisk only sees slices (PC partitions) but not logical >drives in extended partitions. It would be great to be able to create a >logical drive for FreeBSD. Agreed! >Also, over in hobbes there is an ext2fs IFS for OS/2, I'll give a try on >changing it to UFS later on. That would be useful. It'd be nice to hop between OS/2 and BSD. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 9:59: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D40AD1533F for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:58:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA16069; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:58:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd016033; Tue Jul 20 09:58:46 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA07763; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:58:44 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199907201658.JAA07763@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:58:44 +0000 (GMT) Cc: kpielorz@tdx.co.uk, vince@venus.GAIANET.NET, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990719170941.00c38e50@localhost> from "Brett Glass" at Jul 19, 99 05:10:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >Yes, it would!... We (as in Unix) have the free Pascal compiler, which > >supports most (if not all) of the Sysutils unit, but it's a long way from > >being able to run on the bosses Windows desktop :-) > > Free Pascal won't compile native binaries for FreeBSD. It's GPLed and > supports Linux. See p2c in comp.sources.unix in ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/usenet/ . Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 10:14:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70F4D14EAB for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:14:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19765; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:14:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd019739; Tue Jul 20 10:14:02 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA08407; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:14:01 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199907201714.KAA08407@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:14:01 +0000 (GMT) Cc: crh@outpost.co.nz, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990720112948.W72885@freebie.lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Jul 20, 99 11:29:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Tuesday, 20 July 1999 at 13:47:14 +1200, Craig Harding wrote: > > John Birrell wrote: > > > >> Chuckle. I'd like to see you download the Darwin that Greg was > >> referring to. Question: What do NT and Darwin have in common? > > > > Geography? > > For the purposes of this question, you count as an Australian. FWIW, I knew the answer too. This may be from long exposure to Julian, or from watching "Quigley Down Under" one too many time in a lame attempt at getting a Laura San Giacomo fix for the week without watching "Just Shoot Me". Probably, though, it's because I paid attention in 4th grade geography... I surprised the hell out of a Nepalese friend the other day when he mentioned his home town and I said "Oh, that's near Chitwa -- that means ''Heart of the Jungle'', right? Have you ever visited the park yourself?". Us Murkins aren't nearly so ignernt as ya'll ferin'rs seems to thinks we is... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 10:17:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00E8815351 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:17:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26939; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:16:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990720111454.00c64ad0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:16:31 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199907201658.JAA07763@usr02.primenet.com> References: <4.2.0.58.19990719170941.00c38e50@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:58 PM 7/20/99 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > See p2c in comp.sources.unix in ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/usenet/ . I'm very leery of Pascal-to-C translators. Not only are they slow, but they tend to use C's unsafe string handling conventions, which in turn make programs susceptible to buffer overflow exploits. And debugging is very difficult! It's best to get a native implementation. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 10:38: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from scotty.masternet.it (scotty.masternet.it [194.184.65.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29C491539D for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:37:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Received: from suzy (ppp-massa52-64-10.iol.it [212.52.64.10]) by scotty.masternet.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA07859; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:36:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Message-Id: <4.1.19990720193237.019b90e0@194.184.65.4> X-Sender: gmarco@194.184.65.2 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:39:06 +0200 To: Greg Lehey From: Gianmarco Giovannelli Subject: Re: Installing Linux (and bootblocks) Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19990720092427.J72885@freebie.lemis.com> References: <37931080.C5917A44@giovannelli.it> <4.2.0.58.19990718101705.00ccb720@localhost> <4.1.19990718224838.01324160@194.184.65.4> <19990719134536.K65436@freebie.lemis.com> <19990719095612.41282@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990719172747.A72625@freebie.lemis.com> <37931080.C5917A44@giovannelli.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 20/07/99, you wrote: >> I'd like to open another topic: >> Why bootblock won't boot any Linux installation except Debian ? > >It boots my RedHat 5.2 just fine. The problem is that with a lot of distribution the kernel image of linux go beyond the 1024 cyl... Debian perhaps was the only the put the kernl before that cyl. (it was the smallest to install) This was due to how I partition the HD (but I was not aware when I make it :-) , to finish before the 1024 cyl the partition has to be only 38mb :-) Now I solved using as / a 100mb free I have on the 2nd HD and using that space remained on the first HD for a Linux (in a round robin order I tried every distribs, because you have to know the enemy you face off :-) /usr. >> I have tried: >> Redhat 5.2, 6.0 >> Suse 6.1 >> Slackware 3.6 >> TurboLinux 2.0 >> Caldera 1.3 >> Stampede Linux >> Debian 2.1 >> >> (a little OT to say thanks to Jordan for been able to make the best >> install I have seen. FreeBSD is far better than all these , it's easy >> and simple...) > >Agreed. I was surprised how bumpy the RedHat installation was. Red hat is by far the simplest and most clear... have you tried the others ??? We are really riding the best horse... :-) Best Regards, Gianmarco Giovannelli , "Unix expert since yesterday" http://www.giovannelli.it/~gmarco http://www2.masternet.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 10:38:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from scotty.masternet.it (scotty.masternet.it [194.184.65.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7D30152C3 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:38:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Received: from suzy (ppp-massa52-64-10.iol.it [212.52.64.10]) by scotty.masternet.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA07869; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:37:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Message-Id: <4.1.19990720192857.019b3d80@194.184.65.4> X-Sender: gmarco@194.184.65.2 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:40:22 +0200 To: Brett Glass From: Gianmarco Giovannelli Subject: Re: Installing Linux (and bootblocks) Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990719231734.043bd460@localhost> References: <19990720092427.J72885@freebie.lemis.com> <37931080.C5917A44@giovannelli.it> <4.2.0.58.19990718101705.00ccb720@localhost> <4.1.19990718224838.01324160@194.184.65.4> <19990719134536.K65436@freebie.lemis.com> <19990719095612.41282@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990719172747.A72625@freebie.lemis.com> <37931080.C5917A44@giovannelli.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 19/07/99, you wrote: >Yes, Red Hat will install in (and boot from) a logical drive in an extended >partition. This isn't that unusual; OS/2 has done it for years! In fact, >it's a good way to go, since with a boot manager that understands this scheme >you can have up to 23 OSes co-resident on one machine. > >The trick is (as I mentioned above) the boot manager. The boot manager >is installed in one of the four primary partitions (usually the first), and >that partition is permanently marked as "Startable." (If an OS install mucks >with that, there's usually a way to give it control again via a floppy disk.) >The boot manager, in turn, hands off control to the chosen OS, which resides >in one of the other partitions (primary or extended; it doesn't matter). >V Communications' System Commander and IBM's Boot Manager both work this way. >FreeBSD doesn't come with a boot manager that can do this, but as I understand >it you can use a third-party boot manager and partition management program >(e.g. System Commander plus Partition Commander) to make it boot out of >a primary partition that's not marked as startable. You may also be able >to make it boot out of a logical drive, so long as it doesn't freak out >when it discovers that it's located there; I haven't tried it. Thanks Brett for your reply... I solved my problems installing LILO and making the freebsd partition the default one... The only bad thing of lilo is that is simpler and faster to use F1, F2 and so on (like boot0cfg do) that write the name of the os you want to boot.. But at least it works... Best Regards, Gianmarco Giovannelli , "Unix expert since yesterday" http://www.giovannelli.it/~gmarco http://www2.masternet.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 10:42:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA8F815347 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:42:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01505; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:40:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd001430; Tue Jul 20 10:40:16 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA09850; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:40:15 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199907201740.KAA09850@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Oh my, penguins are a'comin': DebianBSD To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:40:15 +0000 (GMT) Cc: regnauld@ftf.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990720092854.00a91100@localhost> from "Brett Glass" at Jul 20, 99 09:32:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ ... "DebianBSD" ... ] > This has been talked about many times before, and -- yes -- it is > a real danger. The best way to nip such things in the bud is to > make FreeBSD development more open (the circle of developers > currently works and acts too much like a secret cabal), > become more evangelical and inclusive, and get more third-party > software support. Then, FreeBSD as an effort would *recruit* the > people who are interested in it rather than merely arousing their > interest but leaving them in the Linux camp. IMO, if you are going to talk the talk, be prepared to walk the walk. The idea of a DebianBSD, so long as they are respective of the copyright and license issues when choosing an agregate license, is not, in itself, a bad thing. Specifically, the people who develope FreeBSD have chosen their license to _specifically_ allow people to take the code, and, with due credit, if specific features or software packages are mentioned in advertising materials, and suitable credit lists in the documentation in any case (how many Linux distributions fail to mention Linus Torvalds in the documentation?), do whatever the hell they want with the code. Like TCP/IP, which gained widespread acceptance because it was (1) available in source form, and (2) licensed to allow commercial "exploitation", a strategic technology is no use as a foundation for other technology, strategic or otherwise, unless there is universal adoption. This is what is so ironic about Sun's Java, JINI, and HP's JetSend technologies -- they are in the role of an SPX/IPX, with license fees required to even play in the game. In other words, they are engaging in a self-defeating behaviour. People should ask themselves why they participate in FreeBSD at all. If their answer doesn't include "to raise the baseline for everyone, commercial and non-commercial alike, and advance the state of the art", then perhaps they would be better off on a project with an Artistic or GPL based licensing. The entire point of a UCB style license is that you raise the bar at the same time you level the playing field. You will still get resistance from commercial companies, where this means that they can't sit on their laurels and profit-take as much as they would perhaps prefer to do. My answer to this is "tough; lead, follow, or get the hell out of our way". I think that this whole idea has been somehow lost, or sublimated, by both advocacy ("mine is best") and inertia ("we can't integrate that fast"). Instead, advocacy should be "mine is best; here, take it and use it as your own", and policy should be "we can't integrate that fast; here, let us give you a branch, change the tools we are using so that it isn't a barrier to you, or, worst case, let us get the hell out of your way". I fully support getting the best bits to the most people, and I don't give a damn who pushes those bits under what cover, so long as the chosen cover doesn't reduce the possible total we can count when we say "the most people" (e.g. "but not you, Bob; you're an evil capitalist, and we hate you"). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 10:51: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7954515362 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:50:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27349; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:49:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990720114545.00a91670@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:49:43 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Oh my, penguins are a'comin': DebianBSD Cc: regnauld@ftf.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199907201740.KAA09850@usr02.primenet.com> References: <4.2.0.58.19990720092854.00a91100@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:40 PM 7/20/99 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >The idea of a DebianBSD, so long as they are respective of the >copyright and license issues when choosing an agregate license, >is not, in itself, a bad thing. Agreed. What *is* a bad thing is sucking the world into the gaping maw of the GPL. >The entire point of a UCB style license is that you raise the >bar at the same time you level the playing field. > >You will still get resistance from commercial companies, where >this means that they can't sit on their laurels and profit-take >as much as they would perhaps prefer to do. My answer to this >is "tough; lead, follow, or get the hell out of our way". > >I think that this whole idea has been somehow lost, or sublimated, >by both advocacy ("mine is best") and inertia ("we can't integrate >that fast"). > >Instead, advocacy should be "mine is best; here, take it and use >it as your own", and policy should be "we can't integrate that >fast; here, let us give you a branch, change the tools we are >using so that it isn't a barrier to you, or, worst case, let us >get the hell out of your way". Exactly. Unfortunately, while some people in the Debian camp understand this, many others embrace the bitter, spiteful, childish ideas and rhetoric of Richard Stallman. >I fully support getting the best bits to the most people, and I >don't give a damn who pushes those bits under what cover, so >long as the chosen cover doesn't reduce the possible total we >can count when we say "the most people" (e.g. "but not you, Bob; >you're an evil capitalist, and we hate you"). The problem is that, if BSD code (or even extensions to it) wind up under the GPL, this is exactly what happens! What can be done about this? --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 10:51: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38C6415395 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:51:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:50:24 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Brett Glass" , "Karl Pielorz" Cc: Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:50:24 -0700 Message-ID: <001001bed2d8$57d86180$021d85d1@youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990720012651.043e5970@localhost> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > At 07:48 AM 7/20/99 +0100, Karl Pielorz wrote: > > >I see Borland have a linux survey up at the moment... > > Yes, they do! As I mentioned in another thread, be sure to enter "FreeBSD" > in the "Other" boxes frequently. We MIGHT get a port. > > --Brett Or you might just annoy them by spamming a survey that is pretty clearly intended to solicit opinions specifically about Linux. DS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 10:51: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67E7F153B6 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:51:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA05638; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:48:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:48:02 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor To: Terry Lambert Cc: Brett Glass , kpielorz@tdx.co.uk, vince@venus.GAIANET.NET, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? In-Reply-To: <199907201658.JAA07763@usr02.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Terry Lambert wrote: > See p2c in comp.sources.unix in ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/usenet/ . cd /usr/ports/lang/p2c && make install clean Brett *********************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu * brett@daemonnews.org * * http://www.daemonnews.org/ * *********************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 11:17:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9231F14CBB for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:17:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id TAA03183; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:11:16 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:11:15 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: David Kelly Cc: Nik Clayton , Francisco Reyes , FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: When should vendors be removed from Gallery? Message-ID: <19990720191115.B683@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <199907200111.UAA06157@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199907200111.UAA06157@nospam.hiwaay.net>; from David Kelly on Mon, Jul 19, 1999 at 08:11:29PM -0500 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 19, 1999 at 08:11:29PM -0500, David Kelly wrote: > Nik Clayton writes: > > On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 01:10:38AM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > > The vendor where I used to buy my systems has taken a Linux advocacy > > > mode. > > > > > > They even added "Linux solutions" to their name and removed the > > > "Powered by FreeBSD logo" off their site even though they are still > > > using a FreeBSD box to host their site. > > > > > > Is this enough reason to remove them off the Gallery of vendors? > > > > Would've thought so. Who was this? > > Sounds like Atipa, http://www.atipa.com/. I've since found better > alternatives. Cheers. I've pulled their entry, and e-mailed them a polite note to say so, and that if they want back in then (obviously) they need to start offering FreeBSD. N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 11:38:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8595114DF6 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:38:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27867; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990720123405.00a11c10@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:37:58 -0600 To: "David Schwartz" From: Brett Glass Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? Cc: In-Reply-To: <001001bed2d8$57d86180$021d85d1@youwant.to> References: <4.2.0.58.19990720012651.043e5970@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:50 AM 7/20/99 -0700, David Schwartz wrote: >> Yes, they do! As I mentioned in another thread, be sure to enter "FreeBSD" > > in the "Other" boxes frequently. We MIGHT get a port. > > > > --Brett > > Or you might just annoy them by spamming a survey that is pretty clearly >intended to solicit opinions specifically about Linux. It's not spamming if it's done in a tactful and reasonable manner. Remember, they are looking to gauge markets. If their survey discloses the existence of a market they hadn't previously recognized, and they're in business to make money, they won't ignore the information. On the other hand, if users and supporters of BSD UNIX continue to believe in the "better mousetrap" theory, they'll get what one would expect: no native support and a dwindling user base. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 11:43:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E3CB14EDB for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:43:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:42:45 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Brett Glass" Cc: Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:42:45 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bed2df$a818f360$021d85d1@youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990720123405.00a11c10@localhost> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > At 10:50 AM 7/20/99 -0700, David Schwartz wrote: > > >> Yes, they do! As I mentioned in another thread, be sure to > enter "FreeBSD" > > > in the "Other" boxes frequently. We MIGHT get a port. > > > > > > --Brett > > > > Or you might just annoy them by spamming a survey that > is pretty clearly > >intended to solicit opinions specifically about Linux. > > It's not spamming if it's done in a tactful and reasonable > manner. Remember, > they are looking to gauge markets. If their survey discloses the > existence of > a market they hadn't previously recognized, and they're in > business to make > money, they won't ignore the information. I don't believe that this is true. I think the survey you are talking about was designed by a company that's methodical enough to understand the limitations of surveys. If you create a 'Linux tools' survey, and promote it to people who develop under Linux, you can expect to learn the preferences of Linux developers. If someone goes out and solicits a particular subgroup of Linux developers heavily to fill out your survey, you know that you just get nvalid results. Further, surveys don't work outside of their desing parameters. Since they asked no questions about FreeBSD, any answers about it are quite likely to not be representative of actual demand. It will be quite obvious that people had been solicited to put FreeBSD on the Linux survey. Solicited survey results are not valid, and they know that. So all you've done is cause a headache in processing the survey results. A polite note would have been much wiser. David Schwartz To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 11:56:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A27114DF6 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:56:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27995; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990720125124.043f7990@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:54:00 -0600 To: "David Schwartz" From: Brett Glass Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? Cc: In-Reply-To: <000001bed2df$a818f360$021d85d1@youwant.to> References: <4.2.0.58.19990720123405.00a11c10@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:42 AM 7/20/99 -0700, David Schwartz wrote: > I don't believe that this is true. I think the survey you are talking about >was designed by a company that's methodical enough to understand the >limitations of surveys. I think that your arguments were designed to be defeatist. Do not ask for support for FreeBSD, and you are sure not to get it. > If you create a 'Linux tools' survey, and promote it to people who develop >under Linux, you can expect to learn the preferences of Linux developers. If >someone goes out and solicits a particular subgroup of Linux developers >heavily to fill out your survey, you know that you just get nvalid results. Have you considered Linux advocacy? It sounds as if you'd make a very good Linux booster. You're clearly not interested in seeing native software or tools developed for FreeBSD. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 12: 3:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C03D14DF6 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:03:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:00:22 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Brett Glass" Cc: Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:00:22 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bed2e2$1e4bd280$021d85d1@youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990720125124.043f7990@localhost> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > At 11:42 AM 7/20/99 -0700, David Schwartz wrote: > > > I don't believe that this is true. I think the survey > you are talking about > >was designed by a company that's methodical enough to understand the > >limitations of surveys. > > I think that your arguments were designed to be defeatist. Do not ask for > support for FreeBSD, and you are sure not to get it. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying ask, argue, sure. Just don't annoy. Whoever it is that's going to go through those survey results is going to get annoyed. This I assure you. > > If you create a 'Linux tools' survey, and promote it to > people who develop > >under Linux, you can expect to learn the preferences of Linux > developers. If > >someone goes out and solicits a particular subgroup of Linux developers > >heavily to fill out your survey, you know that you just get > nvalid results. > > Have you considered Linux advocacy? It sounds as if you'd make a very good > Linux booster. You're clearly not interested in seeing native > software or tools > developed for FreeBSD. Actually, I really prefer not to perform what I think you mean by advocacy. I actually advise people to use and prefer the operating system that is best for the particular task they are performing. David Schwartz To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 12:10:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14FB21531A for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:10:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28143; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:09:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990720130559.04424840@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:09:07 -0600 To: "David Schwartz" From: Brett Glass Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? Cc: In-Reply-To: <000001bed2e2$1e4bd280$021d85d1@youwant.to> References: <4.2.0.58.19990720125124.043f7990@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:00 PM 7/20/99 -0700, David Schwartz wrote: > I'm saying ask, argue, sure. Just don't annoy. One of the best places to ask is in that survey. It asks some general questions about UNIX as well as Linux (though it presupposes -- incorrectly -- that everyone who answers will use Linux primarily or even exclusively). There is no better way to reach the right people and raise their awareness of the BSDs. > Actually, I really prefer not to perform what I think you mean by advocacy. >I actually advise people to use and prefer the operating system that is best >for the particular task they are performing. If you want to be able to make that recommendation in the future, it behooves you to actively support options other than Linux. If you do not, they will cease to be viable options. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 12:21:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from avarice.riverstyx.net (hq-port-97.harbour-dhcp-pool.infinetgroup.com [207.23.37.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E119514EA7 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:21:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from avarice (unknown@avarice [207.23.37.97]) by avarice.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27215; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:19:57 -0700 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:19:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Tani Hosokawa To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990720125124.043f7990@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > > I don't believe that this is true. I think the survey you are talking about > >was designed by a company that's methodical enough to understand the > >limitations of surveys. > I think that your arguments were designed to be defeatist. Do not ask for > support for FreeBSD, and you are sure not to get it. Be a prick and be ignored. A Linux survey is not your soapbox, just send them an e-mail (aka. use the proper channels). > > If you create a 'Linux tools' survey, and promote it to people who develop > >under Linux, you can expect to learn the preferences of Linux developers. If > >someone goes out and solicits a particular subgroup of Linux developers > >heavily to fill out your survey, you know that you just get nvalid results. > Have you considered Linux advocacy? It sounds as if you'd make a very good > Linux booster. You're clearly not interested in seeing native software or tools > developed for FreeBSD. Linux has enough people running around damaging its reputation as it is. Did you see those e-mails that Mindcraft got? Sabotaging someone's survey is immature and irritating. Don't you think a few e-mails in the support mailbox asking for support for a certain platform would be more likely to get you what you want? --- tani hosokawa river styx internet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 12:41:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from Astrovan.cstone.net (mailstop.cstone.net [205.197.102.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98E5515388 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:41:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from highway@cstone.net) Received: from fieldeng (fieldeng.cstone.net [205.197.102.253]) by Astrovan.cstone.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59789U13500L1350S0V35) with SMTP id net for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:33:44 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990720154136.03266040@cstone.net> X-Sender: highway@cstone.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:41:36 -0400 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Sean Michael Whipkey Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? In-Reply-To: <199907201658.JAA07763@usr02.primenet.com> References: <4.2.0.58.19990719170941.00c38e50@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:58 PM 7/20/99 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >See p2c in comp.sources.unix in ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/usenet/ . My roommate - a rather proficient programmer at another high tech firm near me - got drunk at lunch one day and instead of working, wrote a Pascal-to-Perl interpreter. I've been trying to get him to open source it but it still really embarasses him. :) SeanMike -- SeanMike Whipkey - Cornerstone Networks Engineering - highway@cstone.net Report received spam to: spam-report@cstone.net with the full headers Cornerstone Networks - 804.817.7000 or 800.325.9848 - http://www.cstone.net "I'm my own favorite hero." - Dan Ozdowski - SeanMike ICQ #: 605228 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 12:43:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E065B14CF8 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:43:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28462; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990720134100.00bddb90@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:42:58 -0600 To: Tani Hosokawa From: Brett Glass Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.19990720125124.043f7990@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:19 PM 7/20/99 -0700, Tani Hosokawa wrote: >Be a prick and be ignored. A Linux survey is not your soapbox, just send >them an e-mail (aka. use the proper channels). And be ignored. >Linux has enough people running around damaging its reputation as it is. That's why it's so horribly unsuccessful, has a shrinking market and installed base, and has not aroused the interest of any commercial compiler vendor. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 13:17:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from avarice.riverstyx.net (hq-port-97.harbour-dhcp-pool.infinetgroup.com [207.23.37.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1F53153A2 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:17:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from avarice (unknown@avarice [207.23.37.97]) by avarice.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27898; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:17:11 -0700 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:17:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Tani Hosokawa To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990720134100.00bddb90@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > >Be a prick and be ignored. A Linux survey is not your soapbox, just send > >them an e-mail (aka. use the proper channels). > And be ignored. > >Linux has enough people running around damaging its reputation as it is. > That's why it's so horribly unsuccessful, has a shrinking market and > installed base, and has not aroused the interest of any commercial compiler > vendor. You've entirely misinterpreted the situation. The kids aren't the ones making Linux grow, it's the serious developers and people who work with Linux in the real world that do it. The kids are the hangers-ons, the symptoms. The actual roots lie with the professionals. If FreeBSD sticks to its current course, it too will become popular with the people it needs to be popular with, and the whining, screaming children will follow naturally. The trick is to encourage the good side of advocacy, not to simply promote the side-effects of good advocacy. An analogy could be constructed of promoting mold on your strawberries because all the good strawberry patches eventually develop mold. Instead, you ought to grow more strawberries, even if all you want is to get some really spiffy mold samples growing. You see what I'm saying? --- tani hosokawa river styx internet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 13:52: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37979153E8 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:51:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29148; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:51:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990720144745.0439ef00@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:51:40 -0600 To: Tani Hosokawa From: Brett Glass Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.19990720134100.00bddb90@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:17 PM 7/20/99 -0700, Tani Hosokawa wrote: >You've entirely misinterpreted the situation. The kids aren't the ones >making Linux grow, it's the serious developers and people who work with >Linux in the real world that do it. The kids are the hangers-ons, the >symptoms. The actual roots lie with the professionals. Your assertions are inconsistent with the facts. If your statements above were true, then FreeBSD would be at least as successful as Linux. It would enjoy the same installed base and growth rate. In fact, BSD UNIX in general would be far ahead, because it has been around longer. But it's not, and in fact is losing market and server share. Of course, I'm sure you won't allow the facts to affect your utter devotion to the doctrine of the Church of L. Jordan Hubbard, which preaches otherwise. :-( --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 14:32:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from avarice.riverstyx.net (hq-port-97.harbour-dhcp-pool.infinetgroup.com [207.23.37.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 524F4154D2 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:32:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from avarice (unknown@avarice [207.23.37.97]) by avarice.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28598; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:30:30 -0700 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:30:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Tani Hosokawa To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990720144745.0439ef00@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > >You've entirely misinterpreted the situation. The kids aren't the ones > >making Linux grow, it's the serious developers and people who work with > >Linux in the real world that do it. The kids are the hangers-ons, the > >symptoms. The actual roots lie with the professionals. > > Your assertions are inconsistent with the facts. > > If your statements above were true, then FreeBSD would be at least as > successful as Linux. It would enjoy the same installed base and growth rate. > In fact, BSD UNIX in general would be far ahead, because it has been around > longer. I'm curious -- How long has FreeBSD existed? > But it's not, and in fact is losing market and server share. > > Of course, I'm sure you won't allow the facts to affect your utter devotion > to the doctrine of the Church of L. Jordan Hubbard, which preaches otherwise. :-( --- tani hosokawa river styx internet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 15:14:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp11.bellglobal.com (smtp11.bellglobal.com [204.101.251.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DBB71542E for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:14:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vanderh@ecf.toronto.edu) Received: from localhost.nowhere (ppp18331.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.130.11]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA26149; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tim@localhost) by localhost.nowhere (8.9.3/8.9.1) id SAA89708; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:15:23 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tim) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:15:22 -0400 From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Brett Glass Cc: Terry Lambert , regnauld@ftf.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Oh my, penguins are a'comin': DebianBSD Message-ID: <19990720181522.A89607@mad> References: <4.2.0.58.19990720092854.00a91100@localhost> <199907201740.KAA09850@usr02.primenet.com> <4.2.0.58.19990720114545.00a91670@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990720114545.00a91670@localhost>; from Brett Glass on Tue, Jul 20, 1999 at 11:49:43AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jul 20, 1999 at 11:49:43AM -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > > Exactly. Unfortunately, while some people in the Debian camp > understand this, many others embrace the bitter, spiteful, > childish ideas and rhetoric of Richard Stallman. I know I sure don't like bitter, spiteful, childish things. -- This is my .signature which gets appended to the end of my messages. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 16: 7:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from arutam.inch.com (ns.inch.com [207.240.140.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBD1615140 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:07:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freyes@inch.com) Received: from your-name (freyes.static.inch.com [207.240.212.43]) by arutam.inch.com (8.9.1a/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA08003; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:07:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907202307.TAA08003@arutam.inch.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "David Kelly" Cc: "FreeBSd Chat list" , "Nik Clayton" Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:08:10 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: When should vendors be removed from Gallery? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:11:15 +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: >> Sounds like Atipa, http://www.atipa.com/. I've since found better >> alternatives. >Cheers. I've pulled their entry, and e-mailed them a polite note to >say so, and that if they want back in then (obviously) they need to >start offering FreeBSD. Good luck. When they first switched I tried to ask them if they would still load FreeBSD for me. Never got a reply to any of my messages. Also once after they had gone the Linux route I called to get a video card. I asked the salesperson if a particular card would work with FreeBSD and he didn't even know what FreeBSD was. I figure since both Linux and FreeBSD use Xfree I asked if this card would run on Linux. He said yes.... well the card did work on Xfree... using the VGA server at 640x480 :-( I keep suggesting to FreeBSDMall that they sell hardware... even if it is just doing a "virtual catalog" of a reseller such as necx. All they would do is create web pages with pointers at the vendor site with products known to work with FreeBSD (basically act as an affiliate). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 17:49:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E185215405 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:49:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17978; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:46:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907210046.RAA17978@implode.root.com> To: Brett Glass Cc: Tani Hosokawa , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:51:40 MDT." <4.2.0.58.19990720144745.0439ef00@localhost> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:46:12 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >At 01:17 PM 7/20/99 -0700, Tani Hosokawa wrote: > > >You've entirely misinterpreted the situation. The kids aren't the ones >>making Linux grow, it's the serious developers and people who work with >>Linux in the real world that do it. The kids are the hangers-ons, the >>symptoms. The actual roots lie with the professionals. > >Your assertions are inconsistent with the facts. > >If your statements above were true, then FreeBSD would be at least as >successful as Linux. It would enjoy the same installed base and growth rate. >In fact, BSD UNIX in general would be far ahead, because it has been around >longer. > >But it's not, and in fact is losing market and server share. > >Of course, I'm sure you won't allow the facts to affect your utter devotion >to the doctrine of the Church of L. Jordan Hubbard, which preaches otherwise. :-( If you're talking about free software, then Linux has been out for two years longer than FreeBSD. Current market indicators have Linux about 4 times larger installed base than FreeBSD, with both growing at a rate of approximately 2X per year. In fact what is quite amazing is how incredibly _close_ the growth rates are - nearly identical over more than 6 years. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 17:50:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20E171540B for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:50:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA18980; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:20:29 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id KAA87549; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:20:25 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:20:25 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Gianmarco Giovannelli Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Installing Linux (and bootblocks) Message-ID: <19990721102025.J84734@freebie.lemis.com> References: <37931080.C5917A44@giovannelli.it> <4.2.0.58.19990718101705.00ccb720@localhost> <4.1.19990718224838.01324160@194.184.65.4> <19990719134536.K65436@freebie.lemis.com> <19990719095612.41282@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990719172747.A72625@freebie.lemis.com> <37931080.C5917A44@giovannelli.it> <19990720092427.J72885@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19990720193237.019b90e0@194.184.65.4> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990720193237.019b90e0@194.184.65.4>; from Gianmarco Giovannelli on Tue, Jul 20, 1999 at 07:39:06PM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 20 July 1999 at 19:39:06 +0200, Gianmarco Giovannelli wrote: > At 20/07/99, you wrote: > >>> I'd like to open another topic: >>> Why bootblock won't boot any Linux installation except Debian ? >> >> It boots my RedHat 5.2 just fine. > > The problem is that with a lot of distribution the kernel image of linux go > beyond the 1024 cyl... > Debian perhaps was the only the put the kernl before that cyl. (it was the > smallest to install) That depends more on your disk layout and your BIOS than the distribution. But it seems that RedHat puts the kernel in the /boot directory, so it could end up further from the start of the partition. On the other hand, Debian appears to install the kernel at the end, as an afterthought. The first time round, it didn't get installed, and I had to boot from floppy. > This was due to how I partition the HD (but I was not aware when I make it > :-) , to finish before the 1024 cyl the partition has to be only 38mb :-) Certainly one general problem with Linux is the lack of a second-level partitioning scheme. Linux uses up 2 of my 4 Microsoft partitions, and I only have a single file system. > Now I solved using as / a 100mb free I have on the 2nd HD and using that > space remained on the first HD for a Linux (in a round robin order I tried > every distribs, because you have to know the enemy you face off :-) /usr. > >>> I have tried: >>> Redhat 5.2, 6.0 >>> Suse 6.1 >>> Slackware 3.6 >>> TurboLinux 2.0 >>> Caldera 1.3 >>> Stampede Linux >>> Debian 2.1 >>> >>> (a little OT to say thanks to Jordan for been able to make the best >>> install I have seen. FreeBSD is far better than all these , it's easy >>> and simple...) >> >> Agreed. I was surprised how bumpy the RedHat installation was. > > Red hat is by far the simplest and most clear... have you tried the > others ??? Yes, I tried Deviant^H^H^H^H^Hbian. I preferred its installation. > We are really riding the best horse... :-) Certainly I'm surprised how well the FreeBSD installation measures up. Doesn't Slackware have something similar? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 17:55:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 468F514D95 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:55:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA18993; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:22:29 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id KAA87573; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:22:28 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:22:28 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Terry Lambert Cc: crh@outpost.co.nz, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best Message-ID: <19990721102228.K84734@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990720112948.W72885@freebie.lemis.com> <199907201714.KAA08407@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199907201714.KAA08407@usr02.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Tue, Jul 20, 1999 at 05:14:01PM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 20 July 1999 at 17:14:01 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >> On Tuesday, 20 July 1999 at 13:47:14 +1200, Craig Harding wrote: >>> John Birrell wrote: >>> >>>> Chuckle. I'd like to see you download the Darwin that Greg was >>>> referring to. Question: What do NT and Darwin have in common? >>> >>> Geography? >> >> For the purposes of this question, you count as an Australian. > > FWIW, I knew the answer too. > > This may be from long exposure to Julian, or from watching > "Quigley Down Under" one too many time in a lame attempt at > getting a Laura San Giacomo fix for the week without watching > "Just Shoot Me". Probably, though, it's because I paid > attention in 4th grade geography... > > I surprised the hell out of a Nepalese friend the other day > when he mentioned his home town and I said "Oh, that's near > Chitwa -- that means ''Heart of the Jungle'', right? Have > you ever visited the park yourself?". > > Us Murkins aren't nearly so ignernt as ya'll ferin'rs seems > to thinks we is... The fact that you're the only one to allude to understanding it so far, and that you attribute that to exposure to Julian, seems to suggest otherwise. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 20 18:44: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C07ED14F54 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:43:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA19153; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:12:43 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA91072; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:12:42 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:12:42 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass Cc: Terry Lambert , regnauld@ftf.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Id=E9e_fixe_=28was:_Oh_my=2C_penguins_are_a'comin':_Debia?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?nBSD=29?= Message-ID: <19990721111242.P84734@freebie.lemis.com> References: <4.2.0.58.19990720092854.00a91100@localhost> <199907201740.KAA09850@usr02.primenet.com> <4.2.0.58.19990720114545.00a91670@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990720114545.00a91670@localhost>; from Brett Glass on Tue, Jul 20, 1999 at 11:49:43AM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 20 July 1999 at 11:49:43 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > The problem is that, if BSD code (or even extensions to it) wind up > under the GPL, this is exactly what happens! What can be done > about this? I think we should let it happen. Sure, it has its down sides, but then we wouldn't have to put up with your constant bitching about the subject. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 21 0:42:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2491D14E7B for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 00:42:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (tc14-216-180-35-103.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.35.103] (may be forged)) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id CAA22624; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 02:42:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <379579D1.889E84F3@airnet.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 02:42:09 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Non Illegitemus Carborundum. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tim Vanderhoek Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Oh my, penguins are a'comin': DebianBSD References: <4.2.0.58.19990720092854.00a91100@localhost> <199907201740.KAA09850@usr02.primenet.com> <4.2.0.58.19990720114545.00a91670@localhost> <19990720181522.A89607@mad> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 20, 1999 at 11:49:43AM -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > > > > Exactly. Unfortunately, while some people in the Debian camp > > understand this, many others embrace the bitter, spiteful, > > childish ideas and rhetoric of Richard Stallman. > > I know I sure don't like bitter, spiteful, childish things. I don't like his singing... -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 21 0:49:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB0FA14DB1 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 00:49:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA20492; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:18:47 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id RAA93104; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:18:46 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:18:46 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Kris Kirby Cc: Tim Vanderhoek , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Oh my, penguins are a'comin': DebianBSD Message-ID: <19990721171846.R84734@freebie.lemis.com> References: <4.2.0.58.19990720092854.00a91100@localhost> <199907201740.KAA09850@usr02.primenet.com> <4.2.0.58.19990720114545.00a91670@localhost> <19990720181522.A89607@mad> <379579D1.889E84F3@airnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <379579D1.889E84F3@airnet.net>; from Kris Kirby on Wed, Jul 21, 1999 at 02:42:09AM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, 21 July 1999 at 2:42:09 -0500, Kris Kirby wrote: > Tim Vanderhoek wrote: >> >> On Tue, Jul 20, 1999 at 11:49:43AM -0600, Brett Glass wrote: >>> >>> Exactly. Unfortunately, while some people in the Debian camp >>> understand this, many others embrace the bitter, spiteful, >>> childish ideas and rhetoric of Richard Stallman. >> >> I know I sure don't like bitter, spiteful, childish things. > > I don't like his singing... You haven't heard him play the recorder. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 21 1:11:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D66E15457 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 01:11:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA37684; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:08:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Terry Lambert Cc: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey), crh@outpost.co.nz, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best References: <199907201714.KAA08407@usr02.primenet.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 21 Jul 1999 10:08:54 +0200 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert's message of "Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:14:01 +0000 (GMT)" Message-ID: Lines: 9 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert writes: > Us Murkins aren't nearly so ignernt as ya'll ferin'rs seems > to thinks we is... ITYM "merkins". HTH, HAND! DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 21 3:14:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from firewall2.lehman.com (firewall2.Lehman.COM [192.147.65.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C65C314E95 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 03:14:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nclayton@lehman.com) Received: from relay3.messaging-svcs5.lehman.com by firewall2.lehman.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id GAA12154; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 06:14:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990721111348.A2353@lehman.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:13:48 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Conrad Sabatier , Tani Hosokawa Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Nik Clayton , a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality Subject: Re: Sanity regained -- back with the best References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Conrad Sabatier on Mon, Jul 19, 1999 at 06:34:55PM -0500 Organization: Lehman Brothers Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 19, 1999 at 06:34:55PM -0500, Conrad Sabatier wrote: > On 19-Jul-99 Tani Hosokawa wrote: > > On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of > > reality wrote: > > > >> On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, Conrad Sabatier wrote: > >> > >> | Only thing is, I don't have any Linux experience other than with > >> | RedHat. Never tried any other distributions. So, for Debian, or > >> | others, I'll be needing some input from others. > >> > >> I've got lots of Debian experience..I'd be willing to help out > >> with this. > > > > I at one point in time was an avid Slackware user, so if I can be > > of any assistance... I'm also a current RedHat user. > > Looks like we're getting a team together here. :-) Anyone else out > there with any experience with other distros? Not sure, but this is certainly encouraging. I'd desperately like to see a Linux users Primer for FreeBSD, along the same lines as the DocProj Primer. To kick you all off, here's some ideas for organisation and possible chapter titles for the 'book'[1] Introduction What is FreeBSD? Why choose FreeBSD? Why choose Linux? Installation Boot and root disks sysinstall Post-installation configuration System configuration /etc/ /usr/local/etc/ Installing third party apps Packages Ports Networking PPP Ethernet Disks Floppy disks Fixed disks CD-ROM Audio Sound cards ... and more. None of these chapters has to go in to a great deal of detail about how FreeBSD does things (that's what the Handbook is for), but it does have to explain how FreeBSD differs from Linux. This is where I think there'll probably be a lot of tables, showing the FreeBSD command in one column, and the equivalent Linux (Redhat/Debian/SuSE/whatever) commands in other columns. The important thing to remember is to keep it task-based. I don't expect a Linux user to read through something like this in one go. More likely is that they'll be trying to accomplish some task (for example, viewing the routing table) and they'll know how to do it in Linux, but have no idea how to do it in FreeBSD. Make sense? N [1] That's just a DocBook-ism, don't be put off, it doesn't mean you have to write thousands of words. -- --+==[ Systems Administrator, Year 2000 Test Lab, Lehman Brothers, Inc. ]==+-- --+==[ 1 Broadgate, London, EC2M 7HA 0171-601-0011 x5514 ]==+-- --+==[ Year 2000 Testing: It's about time. . . ]==+-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 21 3:26: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from venus.GAIANET.NET (venus.GAIANET.NET [207.211.200.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF0131548A for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 03:25:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@venus.GAIANET.NET) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by venus.GAIANET.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA44397; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 03:23:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@venus.GAIANET.NET) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 03:23:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Poy To: sthaug@nethelp.no Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, mrcpu@internetcds.com, modred@ns1.antisocial.net, leifn@neland.dk, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? In-Reply-To: <23526.932547829@verdi.nethelp.no> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 21 Jul 1999 sthaug@nethelp.no wrote: > > > If the switch "just has the default setup" I would recommend that > > > somebody sit down and read the manual and try to *understand* what is > > > happening - probably also try to experiment a bit with the switch > > > configuration. Because what you're seeing is definitely not normal. > > > > Well, the manual doesn't guarantee security either.... > > This is true, and was well pointed out by Jan B. Koum. But most of the > time the switch will nicely isolate traffic for you. > > However, if you are connected to what Cisco calls a "group switch > module" (on a Cisco switch, of course) you need to be aware of what > this really is. A Cisco "group switch" module is in reality a number > of hubs (3 or 4) on one card. All ports in the same group will see the > same traffic, of course. The Cisco switch we're using is more of the desktop module and not a backbone model so it doesn't have the modules. Think the 2924XL is probably the lowest end of the Catlyst as one can get for 10/100. > > The only > > thing the switch seems to do is give dedicated bandwidth to each port but > > no one knows if it's a true switch since someone did mention a CableTron > > switch being nothing but a bundled of hub ports inside grouped together. > > You need to make up your mind. Do you have a Cisco Catalyst switch or a > Cabletron switch? Since earlier in this thread you said "we don't know > which port goes to what on the Catalyst" I assumed that you were indeed > using a Cisco Catalyst. Since I don't know anything about Cabletron, I'll > let others speak about that. I am using a Cisco Catalyst and I'm just using CableTron as a example since that's what someone else said. Cheers, Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate / / / / | / | __] ] Beverly Hills, California USA 90210 / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 21 4:59:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from beelzebubba.sysabend.org (beelzebubba.sysabend.org [209.201.74.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06D3414F6A for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 04:59:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 9DD8040F1; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 07:59:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9169E9B27; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 07:59:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 07:59:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990720123405.00a11c10@localhost> Message-ID: X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote: :It's not spamming if it's done in a tactful and reasonable manner. Remember, :they are looking to gauge markets. If their survey discloses the existence of I read this initially as gouge markets. I like mine better. Jamie Bowden -- If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 21 9:51:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8224615527 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:51:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06810; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:50:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990721103838.04392f00@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:45:59 -0600 To: dg@root.com From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? Cc: Tani Hosokawa , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199907210046.RAA17978@implode.root.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:46 PM 7/20/99 -0700, David Greenman wrote: > If you're talking about free software, then Linux has been out for two >years longer than FreeBSD. Current market indicators have Linux about 4 times >larger installed base than FreeBSD, with both growing at a rate of >approximately 2X per year. Let's suppose, for a minute, that these numbers were accurate (although there is strong evidence that they aren't). It would mean that the gap between Linux and FreeBSD would DOUBLE every year, eventually causing Linux to leave FreeBSD in the dust. However, in a real-life ecosystem, where growth cannot go on forever, a fixed ratio is not sustainable. What ultimately happens, in any ecosystem (but especially in software ecosystems) is that the species with a marked advantage crowds out the other. Each time the gap between Linux and FreeBSD doubles, more application developers desert FreeBSD and go to Linux -- for good. This drives the installed base of FreeBSD down, so that the ratio stops being 2:1 and becomes 3:1, 4:1, etc. There is evidence that this is already happening. FreeBSD is already losing share, and the Linux:BSD ratio is increasing. Vendors such as Xig are dropping FreeBSD support, and no major ones are adding it. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 21 9:52: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13F6215528 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:51:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06815; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:50:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990721104758.04424f10@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:50:03 -0600 To: Greg Lehey From: Brett Glass Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Id=E9e_fixe_(was:_Oh_my,_penguins_are_?= a'comin': Debia nBSD) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990721111242.P84734@freebie.lemis.com> References: <4.2.0.58.19990720114545.00a91670@localhost> <4.2.0.58.19990720092854.00a91100@localhost> <199907201740.KAA09850@usr02.primenet.com> <4.2.0.58.19990720114545.00a91670@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:12 AM 7/21/99 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >I think we should let it happen. Sure, it has its down sides, but >then we wouldn't have to put up with your constant bitching about the >subject. Sorry, but the presentation of a realistic worldview does not constitute "bitching." Your remark above, however, does. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 21 9:52: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 223CB1551B for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:51:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06806; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:50:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990720203046.04430910@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 21:06:28 -0600 To: Tani Hosokawa From: Brett Glass Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.19990720144745.0439ef00@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 02:30 PM 7/20/99 -0700, Tani Hosokawa wrote: >I'm curious -- How long has FreeBSD existed? The name "FreeBSD" was coined in 1993, IIRC. But BSD UNIX has been around for decades, and free versions were around quite awhile before FreeBSD as a project was started. 386BSD, Net/2, Net/3, and NetBSD all pre-date FreeBSD, I believe. FreeBSD is largely based on BSD 4.4-Lite, but has diverged farther from it than NetBSD or OpenBSD. Linux was first released during a period when the legal status of the BSDs was in doubt. But it was far, far behind the BSDs at that point, and was still really a "toy" even by the time the lawsuit was resolved. BSD, by contrast, was already mature. Linux passed the BSDs in installed base, features, and device support due to evangelism and idealism -- "good memes," as my friends who are into Memetics say. FreeBSD is lagging behind because the nominal leaders of the project have not adopted similar approaches. Even OpenBSD is gaining on FreeBSD, albeit slowly, due to its reputation as a security- focused OS at a time when security is becoming a big concern. This is occurring despite a smaller development group, a project leader with a reputation for abrasiveness (though I personally like him), a less user-friendly install, less optimization for the x86 platform (they need to remain platform-independent, after all), and less widespread distribution. I'm now working with some investors who seem as if they might be interested in doing a heavily promoted, marketed, and supported BSD OS distribution. They don't want to reimplement the wheel or create a fragmentary effort, and so want to track an existing code base. They're currently torn between FreeBSD and OpenBSD as a basis for that package. OpenBSD is missing a lot of things FreeBSD has got, but frankly, they're worried about the FreeBSD development team's antipathy toward evangelism. I'm rooting for FreeBSD as the final choice. So, I'm really hoping that the FreeBSD team will be willing to accept, if grudgingly, a more evangelistic approach to promoting the OS by third parties. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 21 10: 3:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B3C215514 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:03:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id TAA02184; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:02:27 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id TAA38890; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:17:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990721191749.32721@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:17:49 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: Brett Glass Cc: Greg Lehey , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Id=E9e_fixe_=28was=3A_Oh_my=2C_penguins_are__a'comin'=3A_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?Debia_nBSD=29?= References: <4.2.0.58.19990720114545.00a91670@localhost> <4.2.0.58.19990720092854.00a91100@localhost> <199907201740.KAA09850@usr02.primenet.com> <4.2.0.58.19990720114545.00a91670@localhost> <19990721111242.P84734@freebie.lemis.com> <4.2.0.58.19990721104758.04424f10@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990721104758.04424f10@localhost>; from Brett Glass on Wed, Jul 21, 1999 at 10:50:03AM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > > Sorry, but the presentation of a realistic worldview does not constitute > "bitching." Your remark above, however, does. We're so enlightened to find out that you can see the world as it really is, when so many people are failing. Objectivity Incarnate ? -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 21 10:10:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (D5648.DIALUP.CORNELL.EDU [128.253.49.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09C4D14CB6 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:10:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) Received: from localhost (cjc26@localhost) by tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11422; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:09:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) X-Authentication-Warning: tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net: cjc26 owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:09:48 -0400 (EDT) From: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality X-Sender: cjc26@tankgrrl To: Brett Glass Cc: Tani Hosokawa , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990720203046.04430910@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote: | This is occurring despite a smaller development group, a | project leader with a reputation for abrasiveness (though I | personally like him), Somehow, I'm not surprised. -- cliff crawford http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/ I am root, hear me kill -9. -><- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 21 10:21:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from venus.GAIANET.NET (venus.GAIANET.NET [207.211.200.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45743154C8 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:21:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@venus.GAIANET.NET) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by venus.GAIANET.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA46946; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:21:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@venus.GAIANET.NET) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:21:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Poy To: Brett Glass Cc: Tani Hosokawa , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990720203046.04430910@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > At 02:30 PM 7/20/99 -0700, Tani Hosokawa wrote: > > >I'm curious -- How long has FreeBSD existed? > > The name "FreeBSD" was coined in 1993, IIRC. But BSD > UNIX has been around for decades, and free versions were > around quite awhile before FreeBSD as a project was started. > 386BSD, Net/2, Net/3, and NetBSD all pre-date FreeBSD, I > believe. FreeBSD is largely based on BSD 4.4-Lite, but has > diverged farther from it than NetBSD or OpenBSD. Actually, both FreeBSD and NetBSD were originally based on 386BSD which was BSD4.3 based. Then there was that famous BSD vs Unix Software Labs lawsuit. and then later, BSDI, NetBSD, FreeBSD all were rewritten from scratch with BSD4.4lite. I think this was done in version 2.1 of FreeBSD. > Linux was first released during a period when the legal > status of the BSDs was in doubt. But it was far, far behind > the BSDs at that point, and was still really a "toy" even > by the time the lawsuit was resolved. BSD, by contrast, was > already mature. I used Linux back in 1991-93 and I think Jordan did too. Tried 386bsd and didn't really like it. And then Jordan told me FreeBSD was out so i used it since 1.0-GAMMMA. > Linux passed the BSDs in installed base, features, and > device support due to evangelism and idealism -- "good > memes," as my friends who are into Memetics say. FreeBSD > is lagging behind because the nominal leaders of the project > have not adopted similar approaches. Even OpenBSD is gaining > on FreeBSD, albeit slowly, due to its reputation as a security- > focused OS at a time when security is becoming a big concern. > This is occurring despite a smaller development group, a > project leader with a reputation for abrasiveness (though I > personally like him), a less user-friendly install, less > optimization for the x86 platform (they need to remain > platform-independent, after all), and less widespread > distribution. The funny thing is that I haven't ran into people who use OpenBSD yet. I used to run into people who use NetBSD but it seems to be either Linux or FreeBSD now. Seems like Linux just has good marketing with all the different distributions. > I'm now working with some investors who seem as if they > might be interested in doing a heavily promoted, marketed, > and supported BSD OS distribution. They don't want to > reimplement the wheel or create a fragmentary effort, > and so want to track an existing code base. They're > currently torn between FreeBSD and OpenBSD as a basis > for that package. OpenBSD is missing a lot of things > FreeBSD has got, but frankly, they're worried about the > FreeBSD development team's antipathy toward evangelism. > > I'm rooting for FreeBSD as the final choice. So, I'm really > hoping that the FreeBSD team will be willing to accept, > if grudgingly, a more evangelistic approach to promoting > the OS by third parties. I would aim for FreeBSD as well. Cheers, Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate / / / / | / | __] ] Beverly Hills, California USA 90210 / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 21 10:38:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B87EC154FD for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:38:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07366; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:36:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990721111220.044f6430@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:17:45 -0600 To: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality From: Brett Glass Subject: RE: poor ethernet performance? Cc: Tani Hosokawa , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.19990720203046.04430910@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:09 PM 7/21/99 -0400, a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality wrote: >On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > >| This is occurring despite a smaller development group, a >| project leader with a reputation for abrasiveness (though I >| personally like him), > >Somehow, I'm not surprised. I don't mind people who, like Theo, are feisty and independent. Remember, I'm from Wyoming, where lots of people are that way. (Alberta is the "wild west" of Canada, so the folks there also have a "pioneer" attitude.) As I've said to several people in the FreeBSD community (most recently, Mike Smith), disagreeing is OK. People should be able to get along even if they don't agree on everything. This sort of tolerance is common in frontier cultures such as Wyoming. You respect your neighbor, even if he's a little weird or has different ideas than you, because he may be the one who saves your life during the next snowstorm, drought, or what-have-you. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 21 10:38:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97D6815521 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:38:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07363; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:36:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990721111056.0442b470@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:11:53 -0600 To: Phil Regnauld From: Brett Glass Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Id=E9e_fixe_(was:_Oh_my,_penguins_are__?= a'comin': Debia nBSD) Cc: Greg Lehey , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990721191749.32721@ns.int.ftf.net> References: <4.2.0.58.19990721104758.04424f10@localhost> <4.2.0.58.19990720114545.00a91670@localhost> <4.2.0.58.19990720092854.00a91100@localhost> <199907201740.KAA09850@usr02.primenet.com> <4.2.0.58.19990720114545.00a91670@localhost> <19990721111242.P84734@freebie.lemis.com> <4.2.0.58.19990721104758.04424f10@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:17 PM 7/21/99 +0200, Phil Regnauld wrote: >> Sorry, but the presentation of a realistic worldview does not constitute > > "bitching." Your remark above, however, does. > > We're so enlightened to find out that you can see the world > as it really is, when so many people are failing. There are quite a few people who are NOT failing to see the trends. Alas, most of them are taking the path of least resistance and going with Linux! --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 21 10:45:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85C2D1551B for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:45:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id TAA02674; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:44:07 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id TAA38986; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:59:29 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990721195929.62458@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:59:29 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: Brett Glass Cc: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality , Tani Hosokawa , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? References: <4.2.0.58.19990720203046.04430910@localhost> <4.2.0.58.19990721111220.044f6430@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990721111220.044f6430@localhost>; from Brett Glass on Wed, Jul 21, 1999 at 11:17:45AM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > everything. This sort of tolerance is common in frontier cultures > such as Wyoming. You respect your neighbor, even if he's a little > weird or has different ideas than you, because he may be the one > who saves your life during the next snowstorm, drought, or > what-have-you. Thank God we're all frontier-minded on -chat then! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 21 10:51:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from the.oneinsane.net (the.oneinsane.net [207.113.133.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52DEC15515 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:51:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from insane@lunatic.oneinsane.net) Received: from lunatic.oneinsane.net (insane@lunatic.oneinsane.net [207.113.133.231]) by the.oneinsane.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09549 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:51:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from insane@localhost) by lunatic.oneinsane.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA05003 for freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:51:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from insane) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:51:01 -0700 From: "Ron 'The InSaNe One' Rosson" To: freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? Message-ID: <19990721105101.A4252@lunatic.oneinsane.net> Reply-To: Ron Rosson References: <4.2.0.58.19990720144745.0439ef00@localhost> <4.2.0.58.19990720203046.04430910@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990720203046.04430910@localhost>; from Brett Glass on Tue, Jul 20, 1999 at 09:06:28PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD lunatic.oneinsane.net 3.2-STABLE X-Opinion: What you read here is my IMHO X-Disclaimer: I am a firm believer in RTFM X-WWW: http://www.oneinsane.net X-PGP-KEY: http://www.oneinsane.net/~insane/insane-pgp5i.txt X-Uptime: 10:49AM up 6 days, 18:27, 3 users, load averages: 0.01, 0.13, 0.11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org What does the below have todo with poor ethernet performance? Hmm.. When a tangeant starts off like this could someone take the initiative to change the topic. TIA On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Brett Glass was heard blurting out: > At 02:30 PM 7/20/99 -0700, Tani Hosokawa wrote: > > >I'm curious -- How long has FreeBSD existed? > > The name "FreeBSD" was coined in 1993, IIRC. But BSD > UNIX has been around for decades, and free versions were > around quite awhile before FreeBSD as a project was started. > 386BSD, Net/2, Net/3, and NetBSD all pre-date FreeBSD, I > believe. FreeBSD is largely based on BSD 4.4-Lite, but has > diverged farther from it than NetBSD or OpenBSD. > > Linux was first released during a period when the legal > status of the BSDs was in doubt. But it was far, far behind > the BSDs at that point, and was still really a "toy" even > by the time the lawsuit was resolved. BSD, by contrast, was > already mature. > > Linux passed the BSDs in installed base, features, and > device support due to evangelism and idealism -- "good > memes," as my friends who are into Memetics say. FreeBSD > is lagging behind because the nominal leaders of the project > have not adopted similar approaches. Even OpenBSD is gaining > on FreeBSD, albeit slowly, due to its reputation as a security- > focused OS at a time when security is becoming a big concern. > This is occurring despite a smaller development group, a > project leader with a reputation for abrasiveness (though I > personally like him), a less user-friendly install, less > optimization for the x86 platform (they need to remain > platform-independent, after all), and less widespread > distribution. > > I'm now working with some investors who seem as if they > might be interested in doing a heavily promoted, marketed, > and supported BSD OS distribution. They don't want to > reimplement the wheel or create a fragmentary effort, > and so want to track an existing code base. They're > currently torn between FreeBSD and OpenBSD as a basis > for that package. OpenBSD is missing a lot of things > FreeBSD has got, but frankly, they're worried about the > FreeBSD development team's antipathy toward evangelism. > > I'm rooting for FreeBSD as the final choice. So, I'm really > hoping that the FreeBSD team will be willing to accept, > if grudgingly, a more evangelistic approach to promoting > the OS by third parties. > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ron Rosson ... and a UNIX user said ... The InSaNe One rm -rf * insane@oneinsane.net and all was null and void ------------------------------------------------------------------- Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach him to use the Net and he won't bother you for weeks. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 21 16:29:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from WEBBSD1.turnaround.com.au (webbsd1.turnaround.com.au [203.39.138.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D98C214FB0 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:29:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from A_Johns@TurnAround.com.au) Received: from tasajohns (dhcp64.turnaround.com.au [192.168.1.64]) by WEBBSD1.turnaround.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA05987; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:47:28 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from A_Johns@TurnAround.com.au) From: "Andrew Johns" To: , "Harmony Erika Semf" Subject: RE: what does FreeBSD stand for? Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:25:46 +1000 Message-ID: <000e01bed3d0$5c26d660$4001a8c0@tasajohns.turnaround.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [snip] > Subject: Re: what does FreeBSD stand for? > > > >>>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:00:12 -0700, > Harmony Erika Semf said: > > HS> I've looked around the freebsd website but can't seem to find what > HS> the acronym 'BSD' stands for. I'd like to include it in a > HS> presentation I'm making. I know the B is Berkeley, but I'm not > HS> sure of the rest. > > This should probably be in the FAQ, so I'm copying faq@freebsd.org. > Followups directed to freebsd-chat, to the degree that followups can > be set in email. :-) > It is in the FAQ at http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/FAQ241.html#244 Cheers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 1:25: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (ontario.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B569414D77 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:24:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id BAA30962 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:23:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:23:27 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: BAFUG site and BAFUG meetings Message-ID: <19990722012327.A30897@mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As some of you may have noticed, the bafug.org is down. Due to a sudden change in personal at ISP channel, the ISP that was hosting bafug.org, we have had to move our machine to another site. Transbay, the ISP that hosts our Berkeley meetings, has offered us a co-location. With a little luck bafug.org will be up and running by the beginning of next week. Our Berkeley BAFUG meeting is this Thursday, July 22nd at 7:30pm at Transbay. Directions to Transbay can be found at their web site, www.transbay.net. Our next San Francisco BAFUG meeting is on Thursday, August 12th at 7:30 pm. We are currently in discussion with the owner of a meeting site. We hope to have our plans in place well before August 12th. We have located a site for the South Bay chapter of BAFUG to meet. Once bafug.org is back on-line and the mailing list up and running we will hold a vote for which night will be best for the meetings. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.2 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 2:37:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6C531155AD for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 02:37:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 15844 invoked by alias); 22 Jul 1999 09:37:44 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 15815 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jul 1999 09:37:44 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 09:37:44 -0000 Message-ID: <3796E667.7592F185@uswest.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 02:37:43 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Aspirations Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have aspirations of geek-with-style status. I've already acquired the following: - A trademark smirk/eyebrow raise facial expression - A well-practiced maniacal cackle - Reprioritized my life: e-mail, eat, sleep - Worn and jeans with frayed cuffs, thermal paste stains, soldering-iron burns, and the permanent screwdriver fade-mark on the right-hand back pocket. - Chuck t-shirts - Linuxworld t-shirt - DEF CON t-shirt - BOFH "ATF agent" jacket with matching cap - Home decor al a Byte Magazine, and Handbook printouts. - A bookshelf full of outdated unix manuals - A room full of used and not-quite-working computer hardware - Windows NT 3.51 coasters (These are my *good* folding tables.) Will I need to grow my hair out and buy a Toyota as well? What's the current geek-fashion trend for shoes? Have double velcro-straps made the come back yet? This message written under the influence of heavy FreeBSD use. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 2:51: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21CD414E07 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 02:51:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id LAA23218 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:50:44 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id MAA40281 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:06:13 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990722120448.39562@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:04:48 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: Summoner Subject: Re: Aspirations References: <3796E667.7592F185@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3796E667.7592F185@uswest.net>; from Summoner on Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 02:37:43AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Summoner writes: > I have aspirations of geek-with-style status. I've already acquired > the following: > > - A trademark smirk/eyebrow raise facial expression Check. > - A well-practiced maniacal cackle Don't forget the "I look down upon you, you're so cute" laugh. (will include .WAV file someday). > - Reprioritized my life: e-mail, eat, sleep Woops! Forgot IRC. Check. > - Worn and jeans with frayed cuffs, thermal paste stains, > soldering-iron burns, and the permanent screwdriver fade-mark on > the right-hand back pocket. Check. > - Chuck t-shirts Check. > - Linuxworld t-shirt Argh! -10 points! > - DEF CON t-shirt > - BOFH "ATF agent" jacket with matching cap That's my man! > - Home decor al a Byte Magazine, and Handbook printouts. à la, FYI. > - A bookshelf full of outdated unix manuals > - A room full of used and not-quite-working computer hardware *sob* > - Windows NT 3.51 coasters (These are my *good* folding tables.) Neat -- I would have used 4.0. > Will I need to grow my hair out and buy a Toyota as well? It's either long hair or bowl cut. You choose. You could also try to look cool (shaved head) or inconspicuous (normal citizen look, with geekism seething under the surface). > What's the current geek-fashion trend for shoes? Have double velcro-straps > made the come back yet? Timberland or birkenstocks. > This message written under the influence of heavy FreeBSD use. You should look at the average FreeBSD hacker, then. Mike Smith has that "Matrix" look to him :) Jordan is an undercover hacker trying to pass for human. Greg Lehey has the birkenstocks. Choices are many! -- This was brough to you by: -- Style'a'Geek Salon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 3:20:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11B07155D2 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 03:20:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.16]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA133F; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:20:05 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA67200; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:17:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:17:24 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality Cc: Brett Glass , Phil Regnauld , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Oh my, penguins are a'comin': DebianBSD Message-ID: <19990722121724.B15560@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <4.2.0.58.19990720092854.00a91100@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: ; from a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality on Tue, Jul 20, 1999 at 11:46:19AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality (cjc26@cornell.edu) [990720 20:23]: > On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > > | The best way to nip such things in the bud is to > | make FreeBSD development more open (the circle of developers > | currently works and acts too much like a secret cabal), > > I think this is a Good Thing. Allowing just anybody to come in and > hack the kernel might be nice and democratic, but it doesn't ensure > the quality of the code. And to conclude this, a lot of work is underway to create a peer-review source/version control system. Like DES and me have been hinting numerous times: OVCS. And boy does it look kickarse even in draft/prototype format ;) -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist BSD: Technical excellence at its best Cum angelis et pueris, fideles inveniamur. Quis est iste Rex gloriae...? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 3:25: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52FFF14C35 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 03:24:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id MAA28172 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:22:53 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id MAA40417 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:38:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.ftf.dk (firewall.ftf.dk [192.168.1.1] (may be forged)) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA40369 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:26:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hotel.ftf.net (hotel.ftf.net [129.142.64.3]) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id MAA26856 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:11:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hotel.ftf.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA14924 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:11:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 19112 invoked by alias); 22 Jul 1999 10:11:11 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-regnauld@ftf.net@fixme Received: (qmail 19092 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jul 1999 10:11:10 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 10:11:10 -0000 Message-ID: <3796EE3E.59D4E170@uswest.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 03:11:10 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Phil Regnauld Subject: Re: Aspirations References: <3796E667.7592F185@uswest.net> <19990722120448.39562@ns.int.ftf.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Phil Regnauld wrote: > > - A well-practiced maniacal cackle > > Don't forget the "I look down upon you, you're so cute" laugh. > (will include .WAV file someday). I thought I only had to be partially condescending? I'm still learning. > > - Linuxworld t-shirt > > Argh! -10 points! I was still young, still weak. The Linuxites mobbed me! I had to assimilate to save myself! I keep the t-shirt as a solemn reminder of my mistake. Never again shall I fall under the Spell of the Penguin! > > - DEF CON t-shirt > > - BOFH "ATF agent" jacket with matching cap > > That's my man! > > > - Home decor al a Byte Magazine, and Handbook printouts. > > à la, FYI. Ah, thanks... I used French class to catch up on the sleep I didn't get at night because I was playing Wolf3D. > > - A bookshelf full of outdated unix manuals > > - A room full of used and not-quite-working computer hardware > > *sob* Jealousy or the solemn understanding of the painstaking process of compiling such a collection? > > - Windows NT 3.51 coasters (These are my *good* folding tables.) > > Neat -- I would have used 4.0. The 4.0 CDs aren't mine, yet. I'm still paying off the loan. > > Will I need to grow my hair out and buy a Toyota as well? > > It's either long hair or bowl cut. You choose. You could > also try to look cool (shaved head) or inconspicuous > (normal citizen look, with geekism seething under the surface). Well, I never did look good in a bowl cut, and I just look plain scary with a shaved head. So long hair it is. Me? Look normal? I don't think so. I put up with the "look like a functional member of public society" shtick for far too long as private-school kid. I prefer to flaunt my geekiness. > > What's the current geek-fashion trend for shoes? Have double velcro-straps > > made the come back yet? > > Timberland or birkenstocks. Hmm... well, I dare not spend *that* much money on something that isn't made of silicon or plugs into a slot or socket. > > This message written under the influence of heavy FreeBSD use. > > You should look at the average FreeBSD hacker, then. > > Mike Smith has that "Matrix" look to him :) > > Jordan is an undercover hacker trying to pass for human. > > Greg Lehey has the birkenstocks. Photos? Is the Jordan you're referring to JHK? (That reminds me, why did a friend of mine warn me to beware of the cats if I ever meet JHK IRL?) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 5:21:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B1C14EF5 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 05:20:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (tc14-216-180-35-200.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.35.200]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id HAA31596; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:20:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37970CA7.33EE5866@airnet.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:20:55 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Non Illegitemus Carborundum. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Summoner Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Aspirations References: <3796E667.7592F185@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Summoner wrote: > > I have aspirations of geek-with-style status. I've already acquired > the following: > > - A trademark smirk/eyebrow raise facial expression > - A well-practiced maniacal cackle > - Reprioritized my life: e-mail, eat, sleep > - Worn and jeans with frayed cuffs, thermal paste stains, > soldering-iron burns, and the permanent screwdriver fade-mark on > the right-hand back pocket. > - Chuck t-shirts > - Linuxworld t-shirt > - DEF CON t-shirt > - BOFH "ATF agent" jacket with matching cap I'm totally unfamiliar with this. Could someone enlighten me? (Pictures?) > - Home decor al a Byte Magazine, and Handbook printouts. > - A bookshelf full of outdated unix manuals > - A room full of used and not-quite-working computer hardware > - Windows NT 3.51 coasters (These are my *good* folding tables.) -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 5:42: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 02F7514D47 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 05:42:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 16869 invoked by alias); 22 Jul 1999 12:41:11 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 16854 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jul 1999 12:41:10 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 12:41:10 -0000 Message-ID: <37971165.ADABE64A@uswest.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 05:41:09 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kris Kirby Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Aspirations References: <3796E667.7592F185@uswest.net> <37970CA7.33EE5866@airnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kris Kirby wrote: >> - BOFH "ATF agent" jacket with matching cap > > I'm totally unfamiliar with this. Could someone enlighten me? > (Pictures?) BOFH = Bastard Operator From Hell. He's the Admin you want to be, but common decency (?) and the threat of deportation or imprisonment in a psychiatric ward prevent you from becoming. A while back the people that own the rights to the BOFH stories made jackets and matching hats that look like those worn by ATF agents when they go raid a place. They have the letters "BOFH" on the back of the jacket. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 6:30:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92141151D8 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 06:30:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (tc14-216-180-35-200.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.35.200]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA27332; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:30:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37971CE2.83F8201B@airnet.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:30:10 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Non Illegitemus Carborundum. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Summoner Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Aspirations References: <3796E667.7592F185@uswest.net> <37970CA7.33EE5866@airnet.net> <37971165.ADABE64A@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Summoner wrote: > > Kris Kirby wrote: > >> - BOFH "ATF agent" jacket with matching cap > > > > I'm totally unfamiliar with this. Could someone enlighten me? > > (Pictures?) > > BOFH = Bastard Operator From Hell. He's the Admin you want to be, > but common decency (?) and the threat of deportation or imprisonment > in a psychiatric ward prevent you from becoming. This much I knew. Come on, everyone's read the BOFH files, right? > A while back the people that own the rights to the BOFH stories made > jackets and matching hats that look like those worn by ATF agents > when they go raid a place. They have the letters "BOFH" on the back > of the jacket. This I didn't know. -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 6:35:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shattered.disturbed.net (shattered.disturbed.net [205.236.147.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C46B415227 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 06:35:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from veers@disturbed.net) Received: from shattered.disturbed.net ([205.236.147.18]:50445 "EHLO shattered.disturbed.net") by disturbed.net with ESMTP id ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:34:20 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:34:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Alex Perel To: Summoner Cc: Kris Kirby , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Aspirations In-Reply-To: <37971165.ADABE64A@uswest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Summoner wrote: > A while back the people that own the rights to the BOFH stories made > jackets and matching hats that look like those worn by ATF agents > when they go raid a place. They have the letters "BOFH" on the back > of the jacket. Leather? can you still get these? Alex G. Perel -=- AP5081 veers@disturbed.net -=- veers@samurai.com Disturbed Networks - Powered exclusively by FreeBSD == The Power to Serve -=- http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 6:48: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F23721522B for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 06:48:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 16977 invoked by alias); 22 Jul 1999 13:47:48 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 16950 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jul 1999 13:47:47 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 13:47:47 -0000 Message-ID: <37972101.35CA330@uswest.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 06:47:45 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex Perel Cc: Kris Kirby , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Aspirations References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alex Perel wrote: > > On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Summoner wrote: > > > A while back the people that own the rights to the BOFH stories made > > jackets and matching hats that look like those worn by ATF agents > > when they go raid a place. They have the letters "BOFH" on the back > > of the jacket. > > Leather? can you still get these? Mine's done just like the real ATF jackets, with nylon. I'm not sure if they're still available or not. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 7:52:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pop06.iname.net (pop06.iname.net [165.251.8.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F43C15543 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:52:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zen@buddhist.com) Received: from WhizKid (r13.bfm.org [208.18.213.109]) by pop06.iname.net (8.9.1/8.8.0) with SMTP id KAA15258; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:51:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990722095143.00992590@mail.bfm.org> X-Sender: stanislav@mail.bfm.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:51:43 -0500 To: Alex Perel From: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: Re: Aspirations Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <37972101.35CA330@uswest.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:47 22-07-1999 -0700, Summoner wrote: >Alex Perel wrote: >> >> On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Summoner wrote: >> >> > A while back the people that own the rights to the BOFH stories made >> > jackets and matching hats that look like those worn by ATF agents >> > when they go raid a place. They have the letters "BOFH" on the back >> > of the jacket. >> >> Leather? can you still get these? > >Mine's done just like the real ATF jackets, with nylon. I'm not sure >if they're still available or not. The jackets and the hats should be available from any police supply store (at least in the US), including mail order. Any T-shirt place should be happy to add the letters. Of course, I'd rather put "UNIX" on mine than "BOFH". Just be advised that real police jackets are quite expensive. They are also virtually indestructable. Adam --- Gracula v3.0 just released. Don't miss it. Visit Count Gracula's Gallery: http://www.whizkidtech.net/gcl/gallery/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 7:58:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (mail.palmerharvey.co.uk [62.172.109.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07F6314D7E for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:58:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk) Received: from ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk (unverified) by mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:56:44 +0100 Received: from voodoo.pandhm.co.uk (VOODOO [10.100.35.12]) by ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id PJ2VDT65; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:56:45 +0100 Received: from dom by voodoo.pandhm.co.uk with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 117KGt-000DA9-00; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:56:31 +0100 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:56:31 +0100 To: Alex Perel Cc: Summoner , Kris Kirby , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Aspirations Message-Id: <19990722155631.C50365@palmerharvey.co.uk> References: <37971165.ADABE64A@uswest.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from Alex Perel on Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 09:34:19AM -0400 From: Dominic Mitchell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 09:34:19AM -0400, Alex Perel wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Summoner wrote: > > > A while back the people that own the rights to the BOFH stories made > > jackets and matching hats that look like those worn by ATF agents > > when they go raid a place. They have the letters "BOFH" on the back > > of the jacket. > > Leather? can you still get these? Try looking on www.networkweek.com, that's where they seem to publish bofh stories now... -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator In Mountain View did Larry Wall Sedately launch a quiet plea: That DOS, the ancient system, shall On boxes pleasureless to all Run Perl though lack they C. -- ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 9:46:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB3F114C20 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:46:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11655; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:07:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd011615; Thu Jul 22 10:07:43 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA06126; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:43:22 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199907221643.JAA06126@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? To: brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu (Brett Taylor) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:43:22 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, brett@lariat.org, kpielorz@tdx.co.uk, vince@venus.GAIANET.NET, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Brett Taylor" at Jul 20, 99 11:48:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Hi, > > On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > See p2c in comp.sources.unix in ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/usenet/ . > > cd /usr/ports/lang/p2c && make install clean FWIW, there are two seperate Pascal to C translators in the comp.sources.unix archive, but there are only ports for one. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 9:47:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C47CC15370 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:47:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA04526; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:47:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd004493; Thu Jul 22 09:47:03 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA06220; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:46:58 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199907221646.JAA06220@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Oh my, penguins are a'comin': DebianBSD To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:46:58 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, regnauld@ftf.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990720114545.00a91670@localhost> from "Brett Glass" at Jul 20, 99 11:49:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >I fully support getting the best bits to the most people, and I > >don't give a damn who pushes those bits under what cover, so > >long as the chosen cover doesn't reduce the possible total we > >can count when we say "the most people" (e.g. "but not you, Bob; > >you're an evil capitalist, and we hate you"). > > The problem is that, if BSD code (or even extensions to it) wind up > under the GPL, this is exactly what happens! What can be done > about this? BSD code, other than that distributed under Jordan's modified UCB license, which eliminates the claim credit clause, can not be GPL'ed, period. It conflicts with clause 6b of the GPL as an additional restriction. Also you are unlikely to find a commercial organization willing to allow their proprietary code to be GPL'ed, even if they decide to "Open Source" it, for reasons of patent rights dilution, if for no other. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 9:58:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (D5920.DIALUP.CORNELL.EDU [128.253.157.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 785D414C20 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:58:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) Received: from localhost (cjc26@localhost) by tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01441; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:57:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) X-Authentication-Warning: tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net: cjc26 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:57:43 -0400 (EDT) From: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality X-Sender: cjc26@tankgrrl To: Summoner Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Aspirations In-Reply-To: <3796E667.7592F185@uswest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Summoner wrote: | What's the current geek-fashion trend for shoes? Have double | velcro-straps made the come back yet? Tell you what: if you start wearing them, we'll follow your lead. -- cliff crawford http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/ I am root, hear me kill -9. -><- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 10: 7:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 608) id 9E5AC14CA2; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:07:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: brett@lariat.org Cc: unknown@riverstyx.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <4.2.0.58.19990720203046.04430910@localhost> (message from Brett Glass on Tue, 20 Jul 1999 21:06:28 -0600) Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? Message-Id: <19990722170722.9E5AC14CA2@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > currently torn between FreeBSD and OpenBSD as a basis > for that package. OpenBSD is missing a lot of things > FreeBSD has got, but frankly, they're worried about the > FreeBSD development team's antipathy toward evangelism. > > I'm rooting for FreeBSD as the final choice. So, I'm really > hoping that the FreeBSD team will be willing to accept, > if grudgingly, a more evangelistic approach to promoting > the OS by third parties. Brett, if you are looking to create a commercial entity centered on FreeBSD, you might want to build good relations with the FreeBSD folks. that would include not taking pot shots at people in the mailing lists as either direct or parenthetical remarks. its a lot easier to work with people that are favorably disposed to you than those that have been alienated from you. i would imagine that FreeBSD would be very supportive of your efforts, but that's just a guess. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 10: 7:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC91C15382 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:07:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17637; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:06:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990722110228.00c47de0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:04:31 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199907221643.JAA06126@usr05.primenet.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:43 PM 7/22/99 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >FWIW, there are two seperate Pascal to C translators in the >comp.sources.unix archive, In what volumes? The archive you cited isn't indexed, and there are many subdirectories there. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 10: 8:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D76E814CA2 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:08:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA14928; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:04:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:04:43 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor To: Terry Lambert Cc: brett@lariat.org, kpielorz@tdx.co.uk, vince@venus.GAIANET.NET, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? In-Reply-To: <199907221643.JAA06126@usr05.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Terry, On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Terry Lambert wrote: > > cd /usr/ports/lang/p2c && make install clean > > FWIW, there are two seperate Pascal to C translators in the > comp.sources.unix archive, but there are only ports for one. Nope - I just put in the link to p2c. Also could do: cd /usr/ports/lang/ptoc. :-) ('cd /usr/ports && make search key=pascal' is your friend) Brett *********************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu * brett@daemonnews.org * * http://www.daemonnews.org/ * *********************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 10:11:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A226E15404 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:11:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24394; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:11:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd024307; Thu Jul 22 10:11:23 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA06925; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:11:21 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199907221711.KAA06925@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? To: unknown@riverstyx.net (Tani Hosokawa) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:11:20 +0000 (GMT) Cc: brett@lariat.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Tani Hosokawa" at Jul 20, 99 12:19:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I think that your arguments were designed to be defeatist. Do not ask for > > support for FreeBSD, and you are sure not to get it. > > Be a prick and be ignored. A Linux survey is not your soapbox, just send > them an e-mail (aka. use the proper channels). Actually, a piece of snail-mail would be much more effective than a piece of email, as advocacy goes. Having looked at the survey, I can see where it is possible to "be a prick" by filling "FreeBSD" into every text input field. On the other hand, I can see where there _are_ blanks where "FreeBSD" would be an apropriate answer, if the survey was answered honestly and thoughtfully, and thus the survey could act to raise awareness of FreeBSD within Borland's marketing department -- which is where the awareness needs to be raised. The only way you are going to get a FreeBSD port out of Borland is to have Borland's marketing department issue an MRD (Marketing Requirements Document) which specifies that FreeBSD be a supported platform. Period. The same goes for other software companies and their products, as well. One of the real problems with a volunteer project that contains students and others with little real-world experience is that there is a decided lack of experience with the commercial software developement process. This translates into an inability to "work the process" to obtain the results you desire. I think one of the reasons Brett gets so little respect in these circles is that he assumes that a reasonable person working on the project would have at least passing experience in a real-world software company (or company, for that matter), and therefore would not interpret a call to action on a survey as a call to SPAM the survey and increase its standard deviation, at the same time reducing its utility (which would truly be annoying to Borland). Brett: You need to spell out your reasoning a little better if you want to quiet the peanut gallery, and get people behind any advocacy project (e.g. the survey results looking like a "grass roots ground-swell" in support of FreeBSD as a viable market for Borland products). > Linux has enough people running around damaging its reputation as it is. > Did you see those e-mails that Mindcraft got? Unsupported knee-jerk reactions to percieved offenses are often damaging. > Sabotaging someone's survey is immature and irritating. I don't believe that this is what Brett was advocating. > Don't you think a few e-mails in the support mailbox asking for > support for a certain platform would be more likely to get you > what you want? I don't. Over the 20 years I have been paid to write code (I started young, doing consulting), I have yet to see an organization, with the possible exception of Microsoft -- though I have not seen inside Microsoft very deeply, that actually uses the support people as anything other than a very blunt instrument. Very few companies have that much organizational intelligence, unless they are a service company... and then, they are stupid in different directions. Call it an effect of the law of conservation of organizational I.Q.. A _paper letter_ to their VP of marketing... or _better_, one to each of their outside sales managers and several line sales representatives, each from different people with a widely scattered geography, and without coordination of content, would be _much_ more effective. Even better if they are time-staged so as to not all arrive at once. But the survey, as it currently stands (unless someone knows the names of the outside sales managers and representatives at Borland) is the most effective way currently available to indicate market potential to their marketing department. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 10:19:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 573ED14D08 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:19:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28194; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:43:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd028090; Thu Jul 22 10:43:37 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA07206; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:19:19 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199907221719.KAA07206@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? To: unknown@riverstyx.net (Tani Hosokawa) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:19:19 +0000 (GMT) Cc: brett@lariat.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Tani Hosokawa" at Jul 20, 99 02:30:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > In fact, BSD UNIX in general would be far ahead, because it has been around > > longer. > > I'm curious -- How long has FreeBSD existed? FreeBSD is a direct descendent of a planned 0.5 interim release of 386BSD. It was released as FreeBSD when Bill Jolitz denied the use of the 386BSD trademark in order to prevent the release, and backed out of the agreement whereby the 0.5 interim release was being prepared. The denial came about as a result of a firestorm on Usenet, touched off by Lynne Jolitz. As a derivative work of 386BSD 0.1, FreeBSD can properly be said to have existed as long as 386BSD existed, even though the 2.x code branch is 4.4BSD-Lite derived and contains no 386BSD code. In other words, FreeBSD dates to 1991. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 10:26: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14D9715382 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:25:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01042; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:49:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd000921; Thu Jul 22 10:49:41 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA07375; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:25:22 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199907221725.KAA07375@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:25:22 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, crh@outpost.co.nz, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990721102228.K84734@freebie.lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Jul 21, 99 10:22:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Us Murkins aren't nearly so ignernt as ya'll ferin'rs seems > > to thinks we is... > > The fact that you're the only one to allude to understanding it so > far, and that you attribute that to exposure to Julian, seems to > suggest otherwise. Heh. I get points for the allusion, but I lose points for exposure to Julian. I don't think Julian would appreciate you saying that exposure to him renders people ignorant... 8-) 8-) Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 11: 8: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47D8B14E9F for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:08:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18187 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:07:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990722120647.04625dd0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:07:23 -0600 To: chat@freeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: This article on BSD just popped up on MSNBC.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.msnbc.com/news/292376.asp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 11:24:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9431915314 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:24:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA21150; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:21:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd020820; Thu Jul 22 11:21:46 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA09848; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:21:33 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199907221821.LAA09848@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:21:33 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990722110228.00c47de0@localhost> from "Brett Glass" at Jul 22, 99 11:04:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > At 04:43 PM 7/22/99 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > >FWIW, there are two seperate Pascal to C translators in the > >comp.sources.unix archive, > > In what volumes? The archive you cited isn't indexed, and there > are many subdirectories there. It's indexed. Go to the last volume. In it you will find compressed indices for all of the other volumes. You'll also see that it was Paul Vixie who did the indexing, so you have more to thank him for than BIND, DHCP, INN, and a lot of RFC's. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 11:25: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 416F915554 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:25:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14620; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:22:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd014532; Thu Jul 22 11:22:15 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA09894; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:22:09 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199907221822.LAA09894@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? To: brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu (Brett Taylor) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:22:08 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, brett@lariat.org, kpielorz@tdx.co.uk, vince@venus.GAIANET.NET, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Brett Taylor" at Jul 22, 99 11:04:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > cd /usr/ports/lang/p2c && make install clean > > > > FWIW, there are two seperate Pascal to C translators in the > > comp.sources.unix archive, but there are only ports for one. > > Nope - I just put in the link to p2c. Also could do: > > cd /usr/ports/lang/ptoc. :-) > > ('cd /usr/ports && make search key=pascal' is your friend) Way cool! 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 14:34:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D7311561B for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:30:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.31]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4988; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:06:00 -0400 Message-ID: <379498AA.DA3685C@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:41:30 -0500 From: "Pedro Fernando Giffuni" Reply-To: giffunip@yahoo.com Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [es] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: es,en-US,it MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Installing Linux (and bootblocks) References: <37931080.C5917A44@giovannelli.it> <4.2.0.58.19990718101705.00ccb720@localhost> <4.1.19990718224838.01324160@194.184.65.4> <19990719134536.K65436@freebie.lemis.com> <19990719095612.41282@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990719172747.A72625@freebie.lemis.com> <37931080.C5917A44@giovannelli.it> <4.2.0.58.19990719231734.043bd460@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass escribió: > > Yes, Red Hat will install in (and boot from) a logical drive in an extended > partition. This isn't that unusual; OS/2 has done it for years! In fact, > it's a good way to go, since with a boot manager that understands this scheme > you can have up to 23 OSes co-resident on one machine. > Oops.. I was going to say Brett was wrong, but I checked the OS/2 Warp 3 documentation and there is an example of exactly this. It is evidently a bootmanager trick, however OS/2's boot manger uses a partition for itself, something really undesirable. FWIW, I was unable to get a logical drive recognized by FreeBSD's installer, our fdisk only sees slices (PC partitions) but not logical drives in extended partitions. It would be great to be able to create a logical drive for FreeBSD. Also, over in hobbes there is an ext2fs IFS for OS/2, I'll give a try on changing it to UFS later on. Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 14:42:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 812A215604 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:35:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.31]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA498A; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:06:07 -0400 Message-ID: <37949B0C.F15C3A4F@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:51:40 -0500 From: "Pedro Fernando Giffuni" Reply-To: giffunip@yahoo.com Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [es] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: es,en-US,it MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? References: <4.2.0.58.19990719170941.00c38e50@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FPK hasn't been built under FreeBSD (or any other OS) because it was bootstrapped in Linux and written in Pascal. There is, however, a GNU Pascal Compiler and an uncommitted (probably old) port PR. I was a good Pascal programmer, however nowadays I wouldn't go back to it; I will probably use Modula 3. Pedro. Brett Glass escribió: > > At 12:55 AM 7/18/99 +0100, Karl Pielorz wrote: > > >Yes, it would!... We (as in Unix) have the free Pascal compiler, which > >supports most (if not all) of the Sysutils unit, but it's a long way from > >being able to run on the bosses Windows desktop :-) > > Free Pascal won't compile native binaries for FreeBSD. It's GPLed and > supports Linux. > > --Brett Glass > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 15:29:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 190AE14F0C for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:28:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.31]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4990; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:06:21 -0400 Message-ID: <37949E24.EC9D71BB@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:04:52 -0500 From: "Pedro Fernando Giffuni" Reply-To: giffunip@yahoo.com Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [es] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: es,en-US,it MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Phil Regnauld Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Oh my, penguins are a'comin': DebianBSD References: <19990720171033.10907@ns.int.ftf.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It's not a nightmare, sooner or later someone would have the idea of bringing together the best kernel with the most popular userland. I understand, from the little I've read, that they will respect the BSD license in the kernel, but they are planning to port glibc and other linuxisms. In any case I doubt that Walnut Creek would lose market (I won't switch), in fact we might start attracting "debianers" to the real thing. IMHO DebianBSD will eventually die like other FreeBSD and linux distributions have. Pedro. Phil Regnauld escribió: > > Someone wake me up from this nightmare. > > ------- Forwarded Message > > From: Gary Kline > Subject: Re: The project > To: hamish@debian.org (Hamish Moffatt) > Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:58:00 -0700 (PDT) > Cc: debian-bsd@lists.debian.org > > > That's a fine idea, but my response is always: to whom would this be valuable? > > What is the target audience of the "Debian GNU/FreeBSD" system? Are you hoping > > to convert Debian GNU/Linux users, or FreeBSD users? > > > > > I started with a freshly installed FreeBSD 3.2 system. The standard > > > distribution of FreeBSD sucks (IMO of course, but since this is a Debian > > > > Well, I'd be interested to know what you think sucks so that we can justify > > our efforts in the future. I think there are some good things and some > > bad things. I don't like the way that FreeBSD packages don't make an effort > > to configure themselves for your system, for one thing. > > > > > > Lest we (this list) get carried away in self-flagellation or > in circular debates over the GPL/BSD licenses, let's agree on > the many strengths of each ``side.'' --And I do not see BSD > and Linux as *sides*, but participants in the larger open-source > tide, BTW. > > Both Debian and BSD share more good points than have opposing, > I think. If the aim of a DebianBSD is to create an open-source > system with a superior kernel, then the present FreeBSD effort > has that. It stands up to massive loads ... And if an aim > is to integrate the unqualified Best software (free or commercial), > anything GNU is strictly first-rate. > > I think that over time (months to a few years) a DebianBSD > distribution would attract newer and seasoned users from every > corner. Nobody who is hardcore BSD or hardcore Debian is going > to be `converted' ... and that's fine. > > A DBSD would shrinkwrap the best of both. > > gary > > > > > - -- > Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service Unix > > - -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bsd-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > > -----End of forwarded message----- > > -- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 15:34: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CF4861561F for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:33:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@tumbolia.com) Received: (qmail 69552 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 22:32:42 -0000 Received: from shell-2.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.41) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 22:32:42 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:32:41 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt X-Sender: dscheidt@shell-2.enteract.com To: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality Cc: Summoner , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Aspirations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Summoner wrote: > > | What's the current geek-fashion trend for shoes? Have double > | velcro-straps made the come back yet? > > Tell you what: if you start wearing them, we'll follow your lead. I want a pair like the ones I had in third grade. They had a little pocket on side. Very handy for a spare car key. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 15:34:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75CC814F0C for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:28:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.37]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4C83 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:18:08 -0400 Message-ID: <379501F8.8BACAC04@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:10:49 -0500 From: "Pedro Fernando Giffuni" Reply-To: giffunip@yahoo.com Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [es] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: es,en-US,it MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: I'll be visiting the East Coast Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, Next weekend I will travel to the US for some vacations and to get to know the University of Pittsburgh where I was recently admitted (I have no financial support to study there yet, but nevertheless I'll be glad to visit ;-). I will visit the following places: Atlanta Myrtle Beach Pittsburgh NYC (maybe) One of my best friends studies at PSU, so I will probably visit him while I am in Pittsburgh. I will be glad to meet, and maybe even get drunk with, hackers living in those areas. cheers, Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 15:36:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A3681561F for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:36:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id AAA28102; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:35:29 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id AAA42260; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:51:03 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990723005102.53178@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:51:02 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: David Scheidt Cc: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality , Summoner , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Aspirations References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from David Scheidt on Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 05:32:41PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Scheidt writes: > > I want a pair like the ones I had in third grade. They had a little > pocket on side. Very handy for a spare car key. What were you driving, in third grade ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 16:11:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF34914C9D for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:11:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20829; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:07:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990722170535.00c40890@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:06:53 -0600 To: Phil Regnauld From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Aspirations Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990723005102.53178@ns.int.ftf.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:51 AM 7/23/99 +0200, Phil Regnauld wrote: > What were you driving, in third grade ? His teacher crazy, maybe? --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 16:55:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8F44814CE1 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:55:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@tumbolia.com) Received: (qmail 2538 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 23:54:33 -0000 Received: from shell-3.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.42) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 23:54:33 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:54:33 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt X-Sender: dscheidt@shell-3.enteract.com To: Phil Regnauld Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Aspirations In-Reply-To: <19990723005102.53178@ns.int.ftf.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Phil Regnauld wrote: > David Scheidt writes: > > > > I want a pair like the ones I had in third grade. They had a little > > pocket on side. Very handy for a spare car key. > > What were you driving, in third grade ? A BMX. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 17: 0:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF31314FD3 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:00:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA29351; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:30:07 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id JAA33377; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:30:03 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:30:03 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Terry Lambert Cc: crh@outpost.co.nz, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: UNIX, Darwin, NT (was: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best)) Message-ID: <19990723093003.W84734@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990721102228.K84734@freebie.lemis.com> <199907221725.KAA07375@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199907221725.KAA07375@usr05.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 05:25:22PM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thursday, 22 July 1999 at 17:25:22 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >>> Us Murkins aren't nearly so ignernt as ya'll ferin'rs seems >>> to thinks we is... >> >> The fact that you're the only one to allude to understanding it so >> far, and that you attribute that to exposure to Julian, seems to >> suggest otherwise. > > Heh. I get points for the allusion, but I lose points for exposure > to Julian. I don't think Julian would appreciate you saying that > exposure to him renders people ignorant... No, in this case I was saying that exposure to Julian renders you less ignorant. Have you noticed that people have been very quiet about the real connection between UNIX and Darwin NT? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 17: 4:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (D5920.DIALUP.CORNELL.EDU [128.253.157.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB09614CE1 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:04:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) Received: from localhost (cjc26@localhost) by tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02214; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:01:03 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) X-Authentication-Warning: tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net: cjc26 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:01:02 -0400 (EDT) From: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality X-Sender: cjc26@tankgrrl To: David Scheidt Cc: Summoner , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Aspirations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, David Scheidt wrote: | > | What's the current geek-fashion trend for shoes? Have double | > | velcro-straps made the come back yet? | > | > Tell you what: if you start wearing them, we'll follow your lead. | | I want a pair like the ones I had in third grade. They had a little | pocket on side. Very handy for a spare car key. You won't believe this, but I just saw some guy walking around in a pair of lunar-gray velcro shoes. They even had a pocket on the side too! -- cliff crawford http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/ I am root, hear me kill -9. -><- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 17:10:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com (cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com [24.6.21.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 530C014FEF; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:10:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from conrads@cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com) Received: (from conrads@localhost) by cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id TAA00372; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:06:09 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990721111348.A2353@lehman.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:06:09 -0500 (CDT) Organization: @Home Network From: Conrad Sabatier To: Nik Clayton Subject: Re: Sanity regained -- back with the best Cc: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Tani Hosokawa , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 21-Jul-99 Nik Clayton wrote: > On Mon, Jul 19, 1999 at 06:34:55PM -0500, Conrad Sabatier wrote: >> >> Looks like we're getting a team together here. :-) Anyone else >> out >> there with any experience with other distros? > > Not sure, but this is certainly encouraging. I'd desperately like > to see > a Linux users Primer for FreeBSD, along the same lines as the > DocProj > Primer. > > To kick you all off, here's some ideas for organisation and > possible > chapter titles for the 'book'[1] > > Introduction > What is FreeBSD? > Why choose FreeBSD? > Why choose Linux? > Installation > Boot and root disks > sysinstall > Post-installation configuration > System configuration > /etc/ > /usr/local/etc/ > Installing third party apps > Packages > Ports > Networking > PPP > Ethernet > Disks > Floppy disks > Fixed disks > CD-ROM > Audio > Sound cards > ... > > and more. None of these chapters has to go in to a great deal of > detail > about how FreeBSD does things (that's what the Handbook is for), > but it > does have to explain how FreeBSD differs from Linux. This is where > I > think there'll probably be a lot of tables, showing the FreeBSD > command in > one column, and the equivalent Linux (Redhat/Debian/SuSE/whatever) > commands > in other columns. > > The important thing to remember is to keep it task-based. I don't > expect > a Linux user to read through something like this in one go. More > likely > is that they'll be trying to accomplish some task (for example, > viewing > the routing table) and they'll know how to do it in Linux, but have > no > idea how to do it in FreeBSD. > > Make sense? > > N > > [1] That's just a DocBook-ism, don't be put off, it doesn't mean > you > have to write thousands of words. Thanks. I was planning on setting up some sort of outline to share with the others who mentioned an interest in working on this, and your suggestions are a great help. Give me some time to get something going here. I'll pass on my initial ideas to the other guys, and we'll see what starts to take shape. Moving this discussion over to freebsd-doc from here on in. Conrad ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Conrad Sabatier Date: 22-Jul-99 Time: 19:02:56 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 17:11:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 794C415660 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:11:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@tumbolia.com) Received: (qmail 8544 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 00:08:56 -0000 Received: from shell-3.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.42) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 00:08:56 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:08:56 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt X-Sender: dscheidt@shell-3.enteract.com To: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality Cc: Summoner , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Aspirations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality wrote: > > You won't believe this, but I just saw some guy walking around in a pair of > lunar-gray velcro shoes. They even had a pocket on the side too! > If he is a size 10, mug him for me, will you? David Scheidt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 17:17: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36D5F14C27 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:16:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA35747; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:20:00 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199907230020.KAA35747@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: UNIX, Darwin, NT (was: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best)) In-Reply-To: <19990723093003.W84734@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Jul 23, 1999 09:30:03 am" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:19:59 +1000 (EST) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), crh@outpost.co.nz, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > On Thursday, 22 July 1999 at 17:25:22 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Heh. I get points for the allusion, but I lose points for exposure > > to Julian. I don't think Julian would appreciate you saying that > > exposure to him renders people ignorant... > > No, in this case I was saying that exposure to Julian renders you less > ignorant. > > Have you noticed that people have been very quiet about the real > connection between UNIX and Darwin NT? I think that one went "though to the keeper". When the whole of NT only has about 300,000 people, how many people turn up to a UNIX conference there? A couple? 8-) -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 18:12:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail0.atl.bellsouth.net (mail0.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5078614C57 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:12:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-71-86.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.71.86]) by mail0.atl.bellsouth.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18438; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:09:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wghicks (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id VAA04138; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:12:39 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) Message-Id: <199907230112.VAA04138@bellsouth.net> To: giffunip@yahoo.com Cc: FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net Subject: Re: I'll be visiting the East Coast In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:10:49 CDT." <379501F8.8BACAC04@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:12:39 -0400 From: W Gerald Hicks Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > ... and maybe even get drunk with, hackers living in those areas. In Atlanta, Buckhead awaits us :-) Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 18:24:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EF0A14C57 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:24:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA29643; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:51:52 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id KAA33553; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:51:51 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:51:50 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: John Birrell Cc: Terry Lambert , crh@outpost.co.nz, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UNIX, Darwin, NT (was: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best)) Message-ID: <19990723105150.A84734@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990723093003.W84734@freebie.lemis.com> <199907230020.KAA35747@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199907230020.KAA35747@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 10:19:59AM +1000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 23 July 1999 at 10:19:59 +1000, John Birrell wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Thursday, 22 July 1999 at 17:25:22 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >>> Heh. I get points for the allusion, but I lose points for exposure >>> to Julian. I don't think Julian would appreciate you saying that >>> exposure to him renders people ignorant... >> >> No, in this case I was saying that exposure to Julian renders you less >> ignorant. >> >> Have you noticed that people have been very quiet about the real >> connection between UNIX and Darwin NT? > > I think that one went "though to the keeper". > > When the whole of NT only has about 300,000 people, how many people > turn up to a UNIX conference there? A couple? 8-) About right. Of course, if they had advertised the meeting, a few more may have come. As it was, they were mainly students of the NT University. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 18:53:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from vulcan.addy.com (vulcan.addy.com [207.239.68.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87AE614E9A for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:53:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from francisco@natserv.com) Received: from your-name (freyes.static.inch.com [207.240.212.43]) by vulcan.addy.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA14084 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:50:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907230150.VAA14084@vulcan.addy.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "FreeBSd Chat list" Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:51:38 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Will Ebay ever learn? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,39624,00.html?st.ne.fd.tohhed.n i Outage after outage Ebay keeps telling users that they are "taking steps" to prevent from going down. And it keeps happening. Although expensive, at some point I hope they realize that they must have very serious underlying architectural problems to have so many outages. Their choice of NT and Oracle for one I think may be part of the problem. They also have Solaris somewhere in the mix, but this doesn't seem to have anything to do with their problems. :-) Another reason to move more of my auction business to FreeBSD based Yahoo. :-) Actually I like their interface better anyway.. And with all these problems at Ebay I think the other auction sites are probably getting more business. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 20:36:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71FD315664 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:36:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA18835; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:35:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Francisco Reyes Cc: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Will Ebay ever learn? In-Reply-To: <199907230150.VAA14084@vulcan.addy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Francisco Reyes wrote: > http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,39624,00.html?st.ne.fd.tohhed.n > i > > Outage after outage Ebay keeps telling users that they are > "taking steps" to prevent from going down. > And it keeps happening. > > Although expensive, at some point I hope they realize that they > must have very serious underlying architectural problems to have > so many outages. > > Their choice of NT and Oracle for one I think may be part of the > problem. > They also have Solaris somewhere in the mix, but this doesn't > seem to have anything to do with their problems. :-) > > Another reason to move more of my auction business to FreeBSD > based Yahoo. :-) > Actually I like their interface better anyway.. And with all > these problems at Ebay I think the other auction sites are > probably getting more business. It's called stupid design syndrome, they have a super powerful sparc system running the entire database. The (multi?) million dollar machine is at capacity and one burp from it and they die for hours at a time. Large central points of failure tend to do just that, fail. This is why clustering many, many machines is the right way to do things (ie. hotmail) -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 20:42:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from vulcan.addy.com (vulcan.addy.com [207.239.68.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F4661567A for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:42:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from francisco@natserv.com) Received: from your-name (freyes.static.inch.com [207.240.212.43]) by vulcan.addy.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA18999; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:41:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907230341.XAA18999@vulcan.addy.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "Alfred Perlstein" Cc: "FreeBSd Chat list" Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:42:08 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Will Ebay ever learn? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:35:13 -0400 (EDT), Alfred Perlstein wrote: >On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Francisco Reyes wrote: >> http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,39624,00.html?st.ne.fd.tohhed.ni >Large central points of failure tend to do just that, fail. >This is why clustering many, many machines is the right way >to do things (ie. hotmail) I didn't know they had a few large machines running the show.. Which brings us back to my previous comment. >> Although expensive, at some point I hope they realize that they >> must have very serious underlying architectural problems to have >> so many outages. They need to do with a different approach and I agree with you that clustering is a much better approach. I don't recall Yahoo ever having a major outage. The even more interesting thing about Ebay is that I don't believe any of their major outages was because of hardware (at least that I can recall). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 20:48: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EE3A1567C for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:47:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA20300; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:44:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907230344.UAA20300@implode.root.com> To: Brett Glass Cc: Tani Hosokawa , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:45:59 MDT." <4.2.0.58.19990721103838.04392f00@localhost> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:44:09 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >At 05:46 PM 7/20/99 -0700, David Greenman wrote: > > > If you're talking about free software, then Linux has been out for two >>years longer than FreeBSD. Current market indicators have Linux about 4 times >>larger installed base than FreeBSD, with both growing at a rate of >>approximately 2X per year. > >Let's suppose, for a minute, that these numbers were accurate (although there >is strong evidence that they aren't). There is VERY strong evidence that they are accurate. > It would mean that the gap between >Linux and FreeBSD would DOUBLE every year, eventually causing Linux to >leave FreeBSD in the dust. No, the ratio doesn't change when both double each year. It's the ration I'm talking about, not the absolute numbers. If Linux stopped growing today, then FreeBSD would catch up in two years if the current growth rate continues. >However, in a real-life ecosystem, where growth cannot go on forever, a fixed >ratio is not sustainable. Well, you're right about that, except your conclusion is wrong. The statistics show that Linux growth is actually slowing a little and what used to be a 5:1 ratio of Linux:FreeBSD is actually narrowed to 4:1. >There is evidence that this is already happening. FreeBSD is already losing share, >and the Linux:BSD ratio is increasing. I'd really like to know where you get your statistics. Mine come from Redhat downloads (from the primary and mirrors), Slackware downloads and CDROM sales, and FreeBSD downloads and CDROM sales. I'd tell you the numbers if I were able to legally. > Vendors such as Xig are dropping FreeBSD >support, and no major ones are adding it. You're full of it, Brett. I just got back from a full day of FreeBSD meetings and I can say with certainty that interest with third party vendors is increasing. I'd like to know where you heard that Xig is dropping support for FreeBSD - that's just total FUD with zero truth to that rumor. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 21:10:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9F0215679 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:10:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23205; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 22:09:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990722220119.04571100@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 22:09:51 -0600 To: dg@root.com From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199907230344.UAA20300@implode.root.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:44 PM 7/22/99 -0700, David Greenman wrote: > > It would mean that the gap between > >Linux and FreeBSD would DOUBLE every year, eventually causing Linux to > >leave FreeBSD in the dust. > > No, the ratio doesn't change when both double each year. No, but the size of the gap doubles each year. And that's what vendors and users alike care about. >>However, in a real-life ecosystem, where growth cannot go on forever, a fixed > >ratio is not sustainable. > > Well, you're right about that, except your conclusion is wrong. The >statistics show that Linux growth is actually slowing a little and what >used to be a 5:1 ratio of Linux:FreeBSD is actually narrowed to 4:1. You're basing your figures on downloads (see below), which are not a reliable measure of installed base. Many of those downloads are upgrades for existing systems. > I'd really like to know where you get your statistics. Mine come from >Redhat downloads (from the primary and mirrors), Slackware downloads and >CDROM sales, and FreeBSD downloads and CDROM sales. I'd tell you the numbers >if I were able to legally. Alas, your data is not complete. You're not tracking all of the distributions of Linux (in the above, for example, you omit Caldera and SuSE), and -- again -- downloads aren't an accurate metric at all. Sales are a BIT better as a metric, but you still cannot tell the upgrades from the new installs. > > Vendors such as Xig are dropping FreeBSD > >support, and no major ones are adding it. > > You're full of it, Brett. I just got back from a full day of FreeBSD >meetings and I can say with certainty that interest with third party vendors >is increasing. I'd like to know where you heard that Xig is dropping support >for FreeBSD - Jordan said so explicitly on this list. They've dropped support for FreeBSD from all but one of their products: their X server. Want their new CDE? Sorry, no can do. That's Linux-only. (See their Web site.) And, as I've mentioned, Borland is so biased toward Linux that it's tough to request FreeBSD support on their survey. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 21:56:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA51014E3C for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:56:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (tc14-216-180-35-242.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.35.242]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA22850; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:55:56 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3797F5DB.E6B72A21@airnet.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:55:55 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Non Illegitemus Carborundum. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Will Ebay ever learn? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alfred Perlstein wrote: > It's called stupid design syndrome, they have a super powerful > sparc system running the entire database. > > The (multi?) million dollar machine is at capacity and one > burp from it and they die for hours at a time. > > Large central points of failure tend to do just that, fail. > > This is why clustering many, many machines is the right way > to do things (ie. hotmail) And the only way that Mickysoft thinks they have a chance to compete against a _single_ UN*X server. -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 22:29:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CBD1214F8F for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 22:29:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@tumbolia.com) Received: (qmail 92859 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 05:27:10 -0000 Received: from shell-3.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.42) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 05:27:10 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:27:09 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt X-Sender: dscheidt@shell-3.enteract.com To: Francisco Reyes Cc: Alfred Perlstein , FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Will Ebay ever learn? In-Reply-To: <199907230341.XAA18999@vulcan.addy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:35:13 -0400 (EDT), Alfred Perlstein > wrote: > > I didn't know they had a few large machines running the show.. > Which brings us back to my previous comment. I think they have a E10K running the whole show. > > The even more interesting thing about Ebay is that I don't > believe any of their major outages was because of hardware (at > least that I can recall). At least some of the outages have been hardware failures of this E10000. They used to have an outage information page, but I couldn't find it right now. In any event, it appears they don't have a clue on how to design or run a high availability system. David Scheidt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 22 23:23:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A4CD14F8F for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:23:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20688; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907230619.XAA20688@implode.root.com> To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jul 1999 22:09:51 MDT." <4.2.0.58.19990722220119.04571100@localhost> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:19:13 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >At 08:44 PM 7/22/99 -0700, David Greenman wrote: > >> > It would mean that the gap between >> >Linux and FreeBSD would DOUBLE every year, eventually causing Linux to >> >leave FreeBSD in the dust. >> >> No, the ratio doesn't change when both double each year. > >No, but the size of the gap doubles each year. And that's what vendors >and users alike care about. There's not much we can do about that; we'd have to grow at a much faster rate than Linux for a sustained period to change that, and I don't think that's possible to do unless Linux slows down. In any case, I don't agree that vendors care which is larger or by how much. The vendors care about the absolute number of users of a particular OS and if that number exceeds some threshold ('more than 1 million', etc), and even more importantly, the demographics of the userbase. FreeBSD users have a significantly different set of demographics compared to Linux users and some vendors will never see FreeBSD as being a market for them - no matter how many people use it. This is one of the reasons why XiG dropped CDE support for FreeBSD...our users simply weren't interested in it (and for good reason!!! :-)) - they tend to be more interested in servers and less interested in common desktop environments. I think it would be cool if we could get more of those kind of people onboard, but not at the expense of the server type people. XiG's X product for FreeBSD does well because there seems to be universal interest with the userbase in running X on at least one machine in their environment. >> Well, you're right about that, except your conclusion is wrong. The >>statistics show that Linux growth is actually slowing a little and what >>used to be a 5:1 ratio of Linux:FreeBSD is actually narrowed to 4:1. > >You're basing your figures on downloads (see below), which are not a reliable >measure of installed base. Many of those downloads are upgrades for existing >systems. No, I'm basing my figures on everything I've mentioned (downloads and CDROM sales) as well as a variety of other metrics. I can't tell you with any certainty how many people use FreeBSD, but I can tell you that the ratio is about 4:1 and appears to be shrinking. and I repeat: I'd really like to know where you get your statistics. As far as I can tell, your assertions are nothing more than horse exhaust and have only a foul smell to back them up. >> You're full of it, Brett. I just got back from a full day of FreeBSD >>meetings and I can say with certainty that interest with third party vendors >>is increasing. I'd like to know where you heard that Xig is dropping support >>for FreeBSD - > >Jordan said so explicitly on this list. They've dropped support for FreeBSD >from all but one of their products: their X server. Want their new CDE? Sorry, >no can do. That's Linux-only. (See their Web site.) See above about demographics. It's silly to me for you to say "all but one of their products: their X server" - when THAT is their product. The other stuff is just fluff and is apparantly only of interest to a specific and small set of people. ...and have no dillusions about the X server being on shakey ground: the very founder of XiG choses to use FreeBSD over the alternatives for his own desktop machines. >And, as I've mentioned, Borland is so biased toward Linux that it's tough >to request FreeBSD support on their survey. Yeah, and Microsoft is so biased towards Windows that they won't even consider a port of their Word product to Linux. :-) I don't see any meat in this argument. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 0:33:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30BBB14CCB for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:33:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA02368; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:29:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Why We Should All Use Microsoft Software From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 23 Jul 1999 09:29:15 +0200 Message-ID: Lines: 7 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not this guy is for real. http://www.freeyellow.com/members7/geraldholmes/ DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 0:41:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0489814E73 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:41:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:40:53 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" , Subject: RE: Why We Should All Use Microsoft Software Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:40:53 -0700 Message-ID: <000201bed4de$b15098b0$021d85d1@youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It definitely appears to be a reasonably funny joke. DS > I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not this guy is for real. > > http://www.freeyellow.com/members7/geraldholmes/ > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 1:11:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18EDF156C0 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 01:11:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA06342; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 04:11:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 04:11:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Kris Kirby Cc: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Will Ebay ever learn? In-Reply-To: <3797F5DB.E6B72A21@airnet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > It's called stupid design syndrome, they have a super powerful > > sparc system running the entire database. > > > > The (multi?) million dollar machine is at capacity and one > > burp from it and they die for hours at a time. > > > > Large central points of failure tend to do just that, fail. > > > > This is why clustering many, many machines is the right way > > to do things (ie. hotmail) > > And the only way that Mickysoft thinks they have a chance to compete > against a _single_ UN*X server. hotmail is unix, I meant clustering any servers, unix _or_ NT to provide failover. NT can't beat unix, however 20 NT boxes will most likely give more total uptime than a single unix box. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 1:14:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADB0E156D1 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 01:14:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA19610; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 04:13:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 04:13:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Alfred Perlstein To: David Scheidt Cc: Francisco Reyes , FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Will Ebay ever learn? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, David Scheidt wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > > On Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:35:13 -0400 (EDT), Alfred Perlstein > > wrote: > > > > I didn't know they had a few large machines running the show.. > > Which brings us back to my previous comment. > > I think they have a E10K running the whole show. > > > > > The even more interesting thing about Ebay is that I don't > > believe any of their major outages was because of hardware (at > > least that I can recall). > > At least some of the outages have been hardware failures of this E10000. > They used to have an outage information page, but I couldn't find it right > now. > > In any event, it appears they don't have a clue on how to design or run > a high availability system. That's an understatement, you don't rely on _anything_ unless you can afford a spare (or two imo). -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 1:45:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 705A214C14 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 01:45:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (tc14-216-180-35-242.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.35.242]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id DAA01950; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 03:44:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37982B78.665CD80B@airnet.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 03:44:40 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Non Illegitemus Carborundum. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Will Ebay ever learn? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > > > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > It's called stupid design syndrome, they have a super powerful > > > sparc system running the entire database. > > > > > > The (multi?) million dollar machine is at capacity and one > > > burp from it and they die for hours at a time. > > > > > > Large central points of failure tend to do just that, fail. > > > > > > This is why clustering many, many machines is the right way > > > to do things (ie. hotmail) > > > > And the only way that Mickysoft thinks they have a chance to compete > > against a _single_ UN*X server. > > hotmail is unix, I meant clustering any servers, unix _or_ NT to > provide failover. NT can't beat unix, however 20 NT boxes will > most likely give more total uptime than a single unix box. I meant the recommendations my Microsoft to be able to put out X bandwidth. -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 2:16:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (mail.palmerharvey.co.uk [62.172.109.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B891314BF9 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 02:16:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk) Received: from ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk (unverified) by mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:54:10 +0100 Received: from voodoo.pandhm.co.uk (VOODOO [10.100.35.12]) by ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id PJ2VD4KZ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:54:11 +0100 Received: from dom by voodoo.pandhm.co.uk with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 117b5a-000Pkc-00; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:53:58 +0100 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:53:58 +0100 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Francisco Reyes , FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Will Ebay ever learn? Message-Id: <19990723095358.C98688@palmerharvey.co.uk> References: <199907230150.VAA14084@vulcan.addy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from Alfred Perlstein on Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 11:35:13PM -0400 From: Dominic Mitchell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 11:35:13PM -0400, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > It's called stupid design syndrome, they have a super powerful > sparc system running the entire database. > > The (multi?) million dollar machine is at capacity and one > burp from it and they die for hours at a time. > > Large central points of failure tend to do just that, fail. Which is quite amsuing, because the entire starfire (Sun E10K) design is designed around *not* having single points of failure. However, it's all very well having all this redundancy built in if you don't configure it right. The starfire comes with multiple power supplies, but if you only have one incoming power supply, you're screwed when that goes. It's no good saying "it's a fault tolerant solution" if you don't *configure* it fault tolerant. > This is why clustering many, many machines is the right way > to do things (ie. hotmail) I fully agree. -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator In Mountain View did Larry Wall Sedately launch a quiet plea: That DOS, the ancient system, shall On boxes pleasureless to all Run Perl though lack they C. -- ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 2:43:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4EEF714FD7 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 02:43:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@tumbolia.com) Received: (qmail 30153 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 09:43:13 -0000 Received: from shell-3.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.42) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 09:43:13 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 04:43:13 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt X-Sender: dscheidt@shell-3.enteract.com To: Dominic Mitchell Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Francisco Reyes , FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Will Ebay ever learn? In-Reply-To: <19990723095358.C98688@palmerharvey.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Dominic Mitchell wrote: > > Large central points of failure tend to do just that, fail. > > Which is quite amsuing, because the entire starfire (Sun E10K) design is > designed around *not* having single points of failure. > Being able to replace all sorts of hardware with the machine up doesn't do you much good when the sprinkler head directly overhead goes off. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 2:49:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from avarice.riverstyx.net (hq-port-97.harbour-dhcp-pool.infinetgroup.com [207.23.37.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DCB9156F6 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 02:49:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from avarice (unknown@avarice [207.23.37.97]) by avarice.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA21582; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 02:46:37 -0700 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 02:46:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Tani Hosokawa To: Kris Kirby Cc: Alfred Perlstein , FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Will Ebay ever learn? In-Reply-To: <3797F5DB.E6B72A21@airnet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > It's called stupid design syndrome, they have a super powerful > > sparc system running the entire database. > > > > The (multi?) million dollar machine is at capacity and one > > burp from it and they die for hours at a time. > > > > Large central points of failure tend to do just that, fail. > > > > This is why clustering many, many machines is the right way > > to do things (ie. hotmail) > > And the only way that Mickysoft thinks they have a chance to compete > against a _single_ UN*X server. Hotmail *is* UNIX... --- tani hosokawa river styx internet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 3: 1:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (mail.palmerharvey.co.uk [62.172.109.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ED6614F88 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 03:01:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk) Received: from ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk (unverified) by mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:00:06 +0100 Received: from voodoo.pandhm.co.uk (VOODOO [10.100.35.12]) by ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id PJ2VD4NX; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:00:06 +0100 Received: from dom by voodoo.pandhm.co.uk with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 117c7N-000Po3-00; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:59:53 +0100 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:59:53 +0100 To: David Scheidt Cc: Dominic Mitchell , Alfred Perlstein , Francisco Reyes , FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Will Ebay ever learn? Message-Id: <19990723105953.A99187@palmerharvey.co.uk> References: <19990723095358.C98688@palmerharvey.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from David Scheidt on Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 04:43:13AM -0500 From: Dominic Mitchell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 04:43:13AM -0500, David Scheidt wrote: > On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Dominic Mitchell wrote: > > Which is quite amsuing, because the entire starfire (Sun E10K) design is > > designed around *not* having single points of failure. > > Being able to replace all sorts of hardware with the machine up doesn't > do you much good when the sprinkler head directly overhead goes off. Which is *exactly* the point I am trying to make. You can't just buy this stuff and install it. You genuinely have to think about it. Like using a gas system instead of sprinklers. -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator In Mountain View did Larry Wall Sedately launch a quiet plea: That DOS, the ancient system, shall On boxes pleasureless to all Run Perl though lack they C. -- ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 3:12:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2612A14BF9 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 03:12:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@tumbolia.com) Received: (qmail 33516 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 10:09:22 -0000 Received: from shell-3.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.42) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 10:09:22 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 05:09:22 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt X-Sender: dscheidt@shell-3.enteract.com To: Dominic Mitchell Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Francisco Reyes , FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Will Ebay ever learn? In-Reply-To: <19990723105953.A99187@palmerharvey.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Dominic Mitchell wrote: > > Which is *exactly* the point I am trying to make. You can't just buy > this stuff and install it. You genuinely have to think about it. Like > using a gas system instead of sprinklers. A single machine is a single point of failure. If the datacenter it in burns down, you are out of luck. Even if it doesn't burn down, a small fire can mean commercial power to the building is shut off, which will shut any machine down once the batteries are dead. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 5: 3:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from beelzebubba.sysabend.org (beelzebubba.sysabend.org [209.201.74.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F31D614E73 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 05:03:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 0920F4138; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:01:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F2B009B27; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:01:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:01:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Greg Lehey Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UNIX, Darwin, NT (was: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best)) In-Reply-To: <19990723093003.W84734@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: :Have you noticed that people have been very quiet about the real :connection between UNIX and Darwin NT? Alright, what is Darwin NT? I don't do Windows, so enlighten me. Jamie Bowden -- If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 5: 9:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E5414E73 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 05:09:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA08593; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:06:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Jamie Bowden Cc: Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UNIX, Darwin, NT (was: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best)) References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 23 Jul 1999 14:06:20 +0200 In-Reply-To: Jamie Bowden's message of "Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:01:44 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jamie Bowden writes: > On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > : Have you noticed that people have been very quiet about the real > : connection between UNIX and Darwin NT? > Alright, what is Darwin NT? I don't do Windows, so enlighten me. Look it up in an atlas :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 5:17:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3226814E73 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 05:17:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id OAA11216; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:17:09 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id OAA43812; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:32:48 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990723143247.18638@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:32:47 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Jamie Bowden , Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UNIX, Darwin, NT (was: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best)) References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 02:06:20PM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > Alright, what is Darwin NT? I don't do Windows, so enlighten me. > > Look it up in an atlas :) Send one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 5:23: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FBE714E73 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 05:22:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA08982; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:22:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Phil Regnauld Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Jamie Bowden , Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UNIX, Darwin, NT (was: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best)) References: <19990723143247.18638@ns.int.ftf.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 23 Jul 1999 14:22:44 +0200 In-Reply-To: Phil Regnauld's message of "Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:32:47 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Phil Regnauld writes: > Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > > Alright, what is Darwin NT? I don't do Windows, so enlighten me. > > Look it up in an atlas :) > Send one. No atlas? Try AltaVista (+darwin +NT). DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 5:24:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7E13414F66 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 05:24:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 15871 invoked by alias); 23 Jul 1999 12:23:51 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-chat@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 15853 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jul 1999 12:23:51 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 12:23:51 -0000 Message-ID: <37985ED6.6217F75D@uswest.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 05:23:50 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Schwartz Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why We Should All Use Microsoft Software References: <000201bed4de$b15098b0$021d85d1@youwant.to> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Schwartz wrote: > > It definitely appears to be a reasonably funny joke. Scary thing is, I swear I've heard an MS-addicted friend of mine say almost the same things on multiple occassions. The really funny thing is he's always complaining about his machine crashing multiple times each day. >> I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not this guy is for real. >> >> http://www.freeyellow.com/members7/geraldholmes/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 5:28:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from atena.eurocontrol.fr (atena.uneec.eurocontrol.fr [147.196.69.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2624814E73 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 05:28:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@eurocontrol.fr) Received: from caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr (caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr [147.196.43.2]) by atena.eurocontrol.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64E3BE482 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:25:40 +0200 (MET DST) (envelope-from roberto@caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr) Received: by caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr (Postfix, from userid 1193) id 3FC153B60; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:25:40 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:25:40 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: FreeBSD Chat Mailing List Subject: XFree86 3.9.15 Message-ID: <19990723142540.A79492@caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.95.5i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Has anyone succeeded in compiling it ? I got an error at the beginning of the compilation of the Xserver and would like to know if it is me or not, before sending a bug report to the XFree86 folks... xDeviceCtl is defined in "include/X11/extensions/XIproto.h". I'm not trying to compile XIE (disabled in host.def). cc -c -Os -pipe -ansi -pedantic -Dasm=__asm -Wall -Wpointer-arith -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wmissing-declarations -Wredundant-decls -Wnested-externs -I../../../../../../programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/common -I../../../../../../programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/os-support -I. -I../../../../../../programs/Xserver/include -I../../../../../../exports/include/X11 -I../../../../../../include/extensions -I../../../../../../programs/Xserver/mi -I../../../../../.. -I../../../../../../exports/include -DCSRG_BASED -DSHAPE -DXKB -DLBX -DXAPPGROUP -DXCSECURITY -DTOGCUP -DDPMSExtension -DPIXPRIV -DPANORAMIX -DGCCUSESGAS -DAVOID_GLYPHBLT -DPIXPRIV -DSINGLEDEPTH -DXFreeXDGA -DXvExtension -DXFree86LOADER -DXFree86Server -DXF86VIDMODE -DX_BYTE_ORDER=X_LITTLE_ENDIAN -DNEW_INPUT -DNDEBUG -DFUNCPROTO=15 -DNARROWPROTO -DPCCONS_SUPPORT -DSYSCONS_SUPPORT -DPCVT_SUPPORT -DUSE_DEV_IO -DUSESTDRES -DHAS_MTRR_SUPPORT bsd_mouse.c In file included from bsd_mouse.c:10: ../../../../../../programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/common/xf86Xinput.h:103: parse error before `xDeviceCtl' ../../../../../../programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/common/xf86Xinput.h:103: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- Eurocontrol EEC/TEC -=- Ollivier.Robert@eurocontrol.fr The Postman hits! The Postman hits! You have new mail. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 5:51:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from beelzebubba.sysabend.org (beelzebubba.sysabend.org [209.201.74.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03CFD14E8D for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 05:51:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 7807B4139; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6D8719B32; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:48:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UNIX, Darwin, NT (was: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 23 Jul 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: :Jamie Bowden writes: :> On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: :> : Have you noticed that people have been very quiet about the real :> : connection between UNIX and Darwin NT? :> Alright, what is Darwin NT? I don't do Windows, so enlighten me. : :Look it up in an atlas :) So you are talking about Darwin, Australia, which I figured. Seeing where in .au it was located however cleared things up, thanks. Jamie Bowden -- If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 5:58:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 615801503B for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 05:58:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id OAA14135; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:56:58 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id PAA43931; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:12:38 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990723151238.52281@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:12:38 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: Jamie Bowden Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UNIX, Darwin, NT (was: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best)) References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Jamie Bowden on Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 08:48:46AM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jamie Bowden writes: > > So you are talking about Darwin, Australia, which I figured. Seeing where > in .au it was located however cleared things up, thanks. > Northern Territory. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 6:30:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from germanium.xtalwind.net (germanium.xtalwind.net [205.160.242.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8AEE14D51 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 06:30:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jack@germanium.xtalwind.net) Received: from localhost (jack@localhost) by germanium.xtalwind.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA72426; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:29:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:29:01 -0400 (EDT) From: jack To: Ollivier Robert Cc: FreeBSD Chat Mailing List Subject: Re: XFree86 3.9.15 In-Reply-To: <19990723142540.A79492@caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Today Ollivier Robert wrote: > Has anyone succeeded in compiling it ? Yes. Just used `make World', on 3.2-STABLE as of about a mont ago. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack O'Neill Systems Administrator / Systems Analyst jack@germanium.xtalwind.net Crystal Wind Communications, Inc. Finger jack@germanium.xtalwind.net for my PGP key. PGP Key fingerprint = F6 C4 E6 D4 2F 15 A7 67 FD 09 E9 3C 5F CC EB CD enriched, vcard, HTML messages > /dev/null -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 6:38:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lcremeans.erols.com (lcremeans.erols.com [216.164.87.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 219A014F34 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 06:38:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lee@lcremeans.erols.com) Received: (from lee@localhost) by lcremeans.erols.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA30539; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:37:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lee) Message-ID: <19990723093741.A30516@erols.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:37:41 -0400 From: Lee Cremeans To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why We Should All Use Microsoft Software References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 09:29:15AM +0200 X-OS: FreeBSD 3.0-STABLE Organization: My room? Are you crazy? :) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 09:29:15AM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not this guy is for real. > > http://www.freeyellow.com/members7/geraldholmes/ > I've read it, and it's far too silly IMO to be serious. The guy wants to sue people for reading his page with non-Microsoft software -- the judge (and quite possibly, just about anyone else) would laugh at you if you tried to pursue that. It's definitely a parody of Microsoft's EULA and Microsoft's fanboys in general. -lee -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Lee Cremeans -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on WTnet) | | lcremeans@erols.com | http://wakky.dyndns.org/~lee | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 6:43:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (D5760.DIALUP.CORNELL.EDU [128.253.49.160]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B18B14F34 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 06:43:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) Received: from localhost (cjc26@localhost) by tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03745; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:43:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) X-Authentication-Warning: tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net: cjc26 owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:43:23 -0400 (EDT) From: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality X-Sender: cjc26@tankgrrl To: Jamie Bowden Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UNIX, Darwin, NT (was: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Jamie Bowden wrote: | :> : Have you noticed that people have been very quiet about the real | :> : connection between UNIX and Darwin NT? | :> Alright, what is Darwin NT? I don't do Windows, so enlighten me. | : | :Look it up in an atlas :) | | So you are talking about Darwin, Australia, which I figured. Seeing where | in .au it was located however cleared things up, thanks. Ok, this entire thread has left me VERY confused..Darwin's the capital of Northern Territories, fine, I knew that, but what's that got to do with UNIX? The only thing I can think of is the open-source OS from Apple..? -- cliff crawford http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/ I am root, hear me kill -9. -><- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 6:55:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (D5760.DIALUP.CORNELL.EDU [128.253.49.160]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6BBF1570B for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 06:55:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) Received: from localhost (cjc26@localhost) by tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03785; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:54:13 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc26@cornell.edu) X-Authentication-Warning: tankgrrl.bridget.mindriot.net: cjc26 owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:54:13 -0400 (EDT) From: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality X-Sender: cjc26@tankgrrl To: Lee Cremeans Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why We Should All Use Microsoft Software In-Reply-To: <19990723093741.A30516@erols.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Lee Cremeans wrote: | > http://www.freeyellow.com/members7/geraldholmes/ | | I've read it, and it's far too silly IMO to be serious. The guy wants to sue | people for reading his page with non-Microsoft software -- the judge (and | quite possibly, just about anyone else) would laugh at you if you tried to | pursue that. It's definitely a parody of Microsoft's EULA and Microsoft's | fanboys in general. Well, we're not "linus long hair os users", so I think we're safe. :) -- cliff crawford http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/ I am root, hear me kill -9. -><- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 7:26:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20B801568E for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 07:26:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA22103; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 07:24:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907231424.HAA22103@implode.root.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: unknown@riverstyx.net (Tani Hosokawa), brett@lariat.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:19:19 -0000." <199907221719.KAA07206@usr05.primenet.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 07:24:20 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> > In fact, BSD UNIX in general would be far ahead, because it has been around >> > longer. >> >> I'm curious -- How long has FreeBSD existed? > >FreeBSD is a direct descendent of a planned 0.5 interim release of >386BSD. It was released as FreeBSD when Bill Jolitz denied the >use of the 386BSD trademark in order to prevent the release, and >backed out of the agreement whereby the 0.5 interim release was >being prepared. The denial came about as a result of a firestorm >on Usenet, touched off by Lynne Jolitz. > >As a derivative work of 386BSD 0.1, FreeBSD can properly be said >to have existed as long as 386BSD existed, even though the 2.x >code branch is 4.4BSD-Lite derived and contains no 386BSD code. > >In other words, FreeBSD dates to 1991. 386BSD 0.0 was released in March 1992. 0.1 didn't come out until mid-92. FreeBSD 1.0 was released in Q4 1993. The first release of Linux was two years earlier. We also had the USL lawsuit set us back a fair bit. The point is that although the codebase is much older than Linux, BSD was released to the public well after Linux was. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 8: 1:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CD7515763 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:01:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27052; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:00:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990723085838.00a52470@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:00:16 -0600 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Why We Should All Use Microsoft Software In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Joke. Er, ah, hel-looooo..... I said, "Joke!" ;-) --Brett At 09:29 AM 7/23/99 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not this guy is for real. > >http://www.freeyellow.com/members7/geraldholmes/ > >DES >-- >Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 10:42:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rfd1.oit.umass.edu (mailhub.oit.umass.edu [128.119.175.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F138314D21 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:42:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gpavelcak@philos.umass.edu) Received: from emily.oit.umass.edu by rfd1.oit.umass.edu (PMDF V5.1-12 #29083) with ESMTP id <0FFC00D0G3SXTN@rfd1.oit.umass.edu> for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:41:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (gp@localhost) by emily.oit.umass.edu (8.9.3/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA14463; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:41:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Greg Pavelcak Subject: Re: UNIX, Darwin, NT (was: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best)) In-reply-to: <19990723151238.52281@ns.int.ftf.net> X-Sender: gp@emily.oit.umass.edu To: Phil Regnauld Cc: Jamie Bowden , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Authentication-warning: emily.oit.umass.edu: gp owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Phil Regnauld wrote: > Jamie Bowden writes: > > > > So you are talking about Darwin, Australia, which I figured. Seeing where > > in .au it was located however cleared things up, thanks. > > > > Northern Territory. > > Probably an old joke: an acquaintance of mine told me that they were thinking of naming a universtiy *Catholic University of Northern Territory* but were afraid of what the sweatshirts would look like. Oh well, as I recall, he thought it was hilarious. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 11:43:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D81F15562 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:43:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:43:10 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Summoner" Cc: Subject: RE: Why We Should All Use Microsoft Software Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:43:10 -0700 Message-ID: <000401bed53b$3685fcd0$021d85d1@youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <37985ED6.6217F75D@uswest.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Scary thing is, I swear I've heard an MS-addicted friend of mine say > almost the same things on multiple occassions. The really funny > thing is he's always complaining about his machine crashing multiple > times each day. > Some people actually think that computers just "crash all the time", period. DS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 12:14: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dt011n65.san.rr.com (dt011n65.san.rr.com [204.210.13.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCC7214C12 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:13:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by dt011n65.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA27109; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:13:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:13:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug X-Sender: doug@dt011n65.san.rr.com To: David Schwartz Cc: Summoner , chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Why We Should All Use Microsoft Software In-Reply-To: <000401bed53b$3685fcd0$021d85d1@youwant.to> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, David Schwartz wrote: > > > > Scary thing is, I swear I've heard an MS-addicted friend of mine say > > almost the same things on multiple occassions. The really funny > > thing is he's always complaining about his machine crashing multiple > > times each day. > > > > Some people actually think that computers just "crash all the time", > period. Yeah, sadly that's one of microsoft's legacies, and actually an impression that they actively try to foster. I was explaining to my dad that I have servers that don't reboot for months at a time, until I update the software on them. He was flabbergasted. I also read a very interesting article on the impending doom in the japanese macro economy. One of the very senior banking executives that they interviewed said that part of the problem is that the current crop of "young" (by japanese standards) executives have learned disturbing habits from there experiences with computers and video games. I can't do justice to the quote, but it was something to the effect that they have learned that when things crash, all you have to do is hit the reset button. In context it was quite chilling. Doug -- On account of being a democracy and run by the people, we are the only nation in the world that has to keep a government four years, no matter what it does. -- Will Rogers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 14:42:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DED061574B for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:42:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.1) id HAA42726; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 07:47:31 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199907232147.HAA42726@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: UNIX, Darwin, NT (was: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best)) In-Reply-To: from a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality at "Jul 23, 1999 09:43:23 am" To: cjc26@cornell.edu (a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 07:47:31 +1000 (EST) Cc: ragnar@sysabend.org (Jamie Bowden), des@flood.ping.uio.no (Dag-Erling Smorgrav), grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey), chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality wrote: > On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Jamie Bowden wrote: > > | :> : Have you noticed that people have been very quiet about the real > | :> : connection between UNIX and Darwin NT? > | :> Alright, what is Darwin NT? I don't do Windows, so enlighten me. > | : > | :Look it up in an atlas :) > | > | So you are talking about Darwin, Australia, which I figured. Seeing where > | in .au it was located however cleared things up, thanks. > > Ok, this entire thread has left me VERY confused..Darwin's the capital of > Northern Territories, fine, I knew that, but what's that got to do with > UNIX? The only thing I can think of is the open-source OS from Apple..? They held a UNIX conference there. Surprise #1. And Greg went. Surprise #2. But, as the tourist adverts say, "you'll never ever know, if you never ever go" (or something like that 8-). -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 15:59:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27949156D8 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:59:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA06351; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 08:28:40 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id IAA41758; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 08:28:40 +0930 (CST) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 08:28:40 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality Cc: Jamie Bowden , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UNIX, Darwin, NT (was: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best)) Message-ID: <19990724082840.Z84734@freebie.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality on Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 09:43:23AM -0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 23 July 1999 at 9:43:23 -0400, a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality wrote: > On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Jamie Bowden wrote: > >>>>> Have you noticed that people have been very quiet about the real >>>>> connection between UNIX and Darwin NT? >>>> Alright, what is Darwin NT? I don't do Windows, so enlighten me. >>> >>> Look it up in an atlas :) >> >> So you are talking about Darwin, Australia, which I figured. Seeing where >> in .au it was located however cleared things up, thanks. > > Ok, this entire thread has left me VERY confused..Darwin's the capital of > Northern Territories, There's only one Northern Territory. > fine, I knew that, but what's that got to do with UNIX? The Australian UNIX User Group (AUUG) has a chapter there, and they had a conference last week. I went there and did a whole-day FreeBSD workshop. > The only thing I can think of is the open-source OS from Apple..? You might like to know that I looked at a detailed map of NT, and I'm now able to confirm that in all probability Microsoft NT does not exist. If it does, it's so small as to be completely insignificant. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 17:12:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BF401573C for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 17:12:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21098; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 17:11:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd021082; Fri Jul 23 17:11:27 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA16381; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 17:11:26 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199907240011.RAA16381@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: poor ethernet performance? To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 00:11:26 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, unknown@riverstyx.net, brett@lariat.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199907231424.HAA22103@implode.root.com> from "David Greenman" at Jul 23, 99 07:24:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >> I'm curious -- How long has FreeBSD existed? > > > >FreeBSD is a direct descendent of a planned 0.5 interim release of > >386BSD. It was released as FreeBSD when Bill Jolitz denied the > >use of the 386BSD trademark in order to prevent the release, and > >backed out of the agreement whereby the 0.5 interim release was > >being prepared. The denial came about as a result of a firestorm > >on Usenet, touched off by Lynne Jolitz. > > > >As a derivative work of 386BSD 0.1, FreeBSD can properly be said > >to have existed as long as 386BSD existed, even though the 2.x > >code branch is 4.4BSD-Lite derived and contains no 386BSD code. > > > >In other words, FreeBSD dates to 1991. > > 386BSD 0.0 was released in March 1992. 0.1 didn't come out until mid-92. > FreeBSD 1.0 was released in Q4 1993. The first release of Linux was two > years earlier. We also had the USL lawsuit set us back a fair bit. The > point is that although the codebase is much older than Linux, BSD was > released to the public well after Linux was. I'm pretty sure that it was Slightly earlier, but maybe still 1992; Bill's "The Road Not Taken" was published on 14 Mar 1992: http://www.de.freebsd.org/de/ftp/releases/386BSD-0.0 And this was a response to the question of why 386BSD-0.0 was not released through Berkeley (the release predates this message). The anti-UUNET request in the license actually predates "The Road Not Taken". I'm pretty sure my 0.0 floppy predates even this, but I don't have an old enough machine to boot it on, and it wouldn't boot on newer hardware because it doesn't have my "640k" patch (the first of those listed in the Unofficial FAQ, and what later inspired me to create the patchkit). Maybe next time I visit Utah; they still have all the old machines there. It looks like Linux has a "history project": http://www.linuxsa.org.au/meetings/1997-06/intro/page03.html Which claims a 0.02 "release" on 5 Oct 1991. As I remember it, this was a Minix kernel replacement, and didn't boot multiuser until sometime in 1992 (the "history" claims March 1992 for 0.95, but I think the boot multiuser milestome was 0.89 -- I used to follow both projects back then, before the license became an impediment to actual commercial work). When you go back that far, it looks like the archives start to degrade into web inaccessibility, which is really a shame; there is a PhD in Internet History waiting for some ambitious soul who is willing to trace back through peoples tape archives to get it... it's sad to think of the information just vanishing. Like the "Futurama" story about the moon landing being inspired by "Some day Alice, some day... Whoosh! Right to the moon!". 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 23 20: 6:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBCE914FA8 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:06:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA07091 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 12:36:36 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id MAA42769 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 12:36:34 +0930 (CST) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81] (may be forged)) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA07052 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 12:21:50 +0930 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA14373 for bugs-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 12:50:52 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-bugs@bugs.au.freebsd.org) X-Authentication-Warning: phoenix.welearn.com.au: majordom set sender to owner-bugs@bugs.au.freebsd.org using -f Received: from backup.af.speednet.com.au (af.speednet.com.au [202.135.206.244]) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14364 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 12:50:19 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from andyf@speednet.com.au) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by backup.af.speednet.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21948 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 12:49:28 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from andyf@speednet.com.au) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 12:49:28 +1000 (EST) From: Andy Farkas X-Sender: andyf@localhost To: bugs@bugs.au.freebsd.org Subject: [bugs] The Hidden Dialog Box in Microsoft Development Tools.... (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BED5C3.02658820" Content-ID: X-Trivia: There is only one universal passion: Fear Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. 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To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 24 1:52:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF19E14F82 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 01:52:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.212]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAB3047; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:51:15 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20365; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:39:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:39:04 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Doug Cc: David Schwartz , Summoner , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why We Should All Use Microsoft Software Message-ID: <19990724103904.C20171@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <000401bed53b$3685fcd0$021d85d1@youwant.to> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Doug on Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 12:13:40PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Doug (Doug@gorean.org) [990723 21:36]: > On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, David Schwartz wrote: > > > Some people actually think that computers just "crash all the time", > > period. > > I also read a very interesting article on the impending doom in > the japanese macro economy. One of the very senior banking executives that > they interviewed said that part of the problem is that the current crop of > "young" (by japanese standards) executives have learned disturbing habits > from there experiences with computers and video games. I can't do justice > to the quote, but it was something to the effect that they have learned > that when things crash, all you have to do is hit the reset button. In > context it was quite chilling. *sigh* That reminds me of our systemadministrators, they administered AIX boxen and they would always solve problems by resetting the box, without even paying attention to the mounted volumes. And then they bitch when the HD's are failing... Fscking lamers... Btw, I have been using Windows 95 a lot at work to write *bwerk* Word documents and experienced a lot of crashes. So when I left my FreeBSD box for 2 weeks to automatically fetch my mail during my vacation, I was happily surprised to find the thing still running happily when I returned. Lesson: FreeBSD and other Unices are NOT like Windows... Hell a crash is something worth investigating under Unix while under Windows it's ehm, more, ehm, natural? [ How could've I ever doubt FreeBSD in the first place? ] -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist BSD: Technical excellence at its best Cum angelis et pueris, fideles inveniamur. Quis est iste Rex gloriae...? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 24 1:52:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E90D215058 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 01:52:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.212]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA3047; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:51:15 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20195; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:27:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:27:34 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990724102734.A20171@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <73448.932787007@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <73448.932787007@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 08:30:07PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ redirected to -chat ] * Jordan K. Hubbard (jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) [990724 09:51]: > Not everyone likes bash, you know, and for > everyone saying "bash should be the default!" there's someone else > going "NO! Tcsh as the default or death!" or "zsh is the One True > Shell you heathens! Bash sucks!" Hey! That zsh freak reminds me of Eivind ;) -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist BSD: Technical excellence at its best Cum angelis et pueris, fideles inveniamur. Quis est iste Rex gloriae...? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 24 19:44:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from topsecret.net (gill.apk.net [207.54.148.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 15C4B150C8 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 19:44:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gill@topsecret.net) Received: from stumpy by topsecret.net with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 22:40:10 -0400 From: "James Gill" To: "Greg Lehey" , "a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality" Cc: "Jamie Bowden" , "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" , Subject: RE: UNIX, Darwin, NT (was: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best)) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 22:40:03 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <19990724082840.Z84734@freebie.lemis.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Return-Path: gill@topsecret.net Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org i'm now considering serously making this my .sig : "You might like to know that I looked at a detailed map of NT, and I'm now able to confirm that in all probability Microsoft NT does not exist. If it does, it's so small as to be completely insignificant." --Greg Lehey, Author, _The Complete FreeBSD_ ;) ===================================== James Gill * http://www.topsecret.net ===================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 24 19:56: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25A68150C8 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 19:55:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA10669; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 12:25:31 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id MAA49853; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 12:25:30 +0930 (CST) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 12:25:30 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: James Gill Cc: a disembodied voice emerging from the chaos of reality , Jamie Bowden , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UNIX, Darwin, NT (was: Installing Linux (was: Sanity regained -- back with the best)) Message-ID: <19990725122530.B84734@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990724082840.Z84734@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from James Gill on Sat, Jul 24, 1999 at 10:40:03PM -0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 24 July 1999 at 22:40:03 -0400, James Gill wrote: > > i'm now considering serously making this my .sig : > > "You might like to know that I looked at a detailed map of NT, and I'm > now able to confirm that in all probability Microsoft NT does not > exist. If it does, it's so small as to be completely insignificant." > --Greg Lehey, Author, _The Complete FreeBSD_ Glad you like it :-) Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message