From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Jan 15 22:55:30 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA91C2210C0 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 22:55:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qv1-xf2e.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47yjN05mvfz490J for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 22:55:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qv1-xf2e.google.com with SMTP id t6so8200630qvs.5 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 14:55:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=mqLeaEPxbAZt9SrPMXSvvGUNG4X0GhQ8GDgNbum9ir4=; b=dfbG2cIrILwC6nEXlqBhRtUVC5rJDXRXY3k1GDWd4hNJSSIjXRteMr9eyNg7TDBaet yBhVziBDbQQCmptlSI9uKQwkhC7X6BdI1H7ZieSXkskAoxgSSQ0E+PPIc1rdU2UiIYOX nPqSTlmkMWsTDi65z044BBEBayAwhV0OlMZ24VisQxGd6SKL3xUCraL7RdARxT3rxKYV zLSNUUZp/s6uiQVMaud4niJpKT/yKqQA8fp+2M0g5O2VInhUDCS2xdIODKZFc1BY7zMy rnD6/Tay32q1VndKCUvYbvFaSnQp7cmU6drlKC6e3a/x3x1eY9WY82wcHgMw7Iy2krA5 SFYA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=mqLeaEPxbAZt9SrPMXSvvGUNG4X0GhQ8GDgNbum9ir4=; b=DvjHNtG0Aj1nuA/RNxWnD+WTab4A5z5NGo5C8QgM7ZwsEOUeQIqHiDwMnBKS9CozRG EJsv5nXay2K30wUNE0R7NfC1VSViobtUJqxoBboqshwymUHL6TEs8WQOuIhJmRCFt/li 4lQWTUUT4Zjt0tr4PeBJfk8MvA5NPLVWpj8pw1Q5QjlGhTocKdONXeeK1IEEBMgnNVAI iUWCW0l4CKF8/hnH/Yh+BjrPhDMvO5cJMECiAsqbNT3n2ZzWAPoJb1SOqze00pfMeBcO epke/plxHB1+hActhhtedNoSWvertgFy8su+rUl+ca4FxZEo17WzBes/obCTV2VgUfbB AfTw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWByDdhAHHeocGf2VmLk6PJT4286ouJTkUDEQVtqmYUUFLE5Hic YmsJy2TG2sRgWuBq4lhU5gsyK406EPViYw+Kb0CYpZxR X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyseamrsre0iqxBxogVpgYGLc+XbbYrQHRlCb/LIb112o1zQ4T8dylMdLky1BWoueXJWhKyZ56ZQqpPgxD/70c= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:1428:: with SMTP id o8mr25018083qvx.87.1579128922030; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 14:55:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202001150747.00F7lqiG071097@repo.freebsd.org> <6925a470-ccbe-1446-e55e-f0aa8b6e6387@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <6925a470-ccbe-1446-e55e-f0aa8b6e6387@FreeBSD.org> From: Warner Losh Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 15:55:11 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: svn commit: r356758 - in head/usr.sbin/bsdinstall: . scripts To: Pedro Giffuni , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47yjN05mvfz490J X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=dfbG2cIr; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2e) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.54 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(-1.54)[ip: (-3.74), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.09), asn: 15169(-1.83), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 22:55:31 -0000 [ redirected to arch@ ] For the arch@ list: Recently ZFS was made the first (default) choice in bsdinstall instead of a UFS. A discussion started on the src lists, but belongs here. On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 3:02 PM Pedro Giffuni wrote: > On 15/01/2020 16:41, Ed Maste wrote: > > On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 at 16:10, Eugene Grosbein > wrote: > >> There are multiple scenarios there ZFS may be sub-optimal at least: > small i386 virtual guests > >> or 32-bit only hardware like AMD Geode, or big amd64 SSD-only systems > with bhyve and multiple guests > >> that need lots of memory and should not fight with ZFS for RAM etc. > We support those, but they shouldn't drive the defaults. It's super easy to just install UFS on those systems. For virtualizations like this, most of the time people use jails because it's more efficient on systems that are tight on memory, so I'm not sure it's a case that should drive the default decisions... > > That may well be the case, but our defaults should represent the > > configuration that's desirable to the largest set of users, and IMO > > that's ZFS in most cases today. > Agreed. ZFS vs UFS is still an install-time choice. > There is also the policy of not making copyleft code mandatory > (technically, CDDL is weak copyleft). > Nothing makes it mandatory. It's still optional for people that wish to avoid it. > If ZFS is disabled in the build, the installer should gracefully disable > it too. > True, but we're not talking about that issue. It's orthogonal, so let's not get distracted. > > It might be that we should default to UFS on i386 and ZFS on amd64? > It's not i386 vs amd64 that's the issue. It's the total amount of RAM. ZFS is perfectly happy with i386 installs with enough RAM. We'd catch most sub-optimal cases if we'd offer it only for systems with > ~2-4GB. Warner