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Date:      Sat, 9 May 2020 08:55:53 -0400
From:      Jerry <jerry@seibercom.net>
To:        freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Microsoft Teams for Linux
Message-ID:  <20200509085553.00006a3a@seibercom.net>
In-Reply-To: <20200509135024.d3ace507.freebsd@edvax.de>
References:  <b64d57e2-f4d7-7618-c711-6501a652a6ac@suszko.eu> <20200505093624.00001df2@seibercom.net> <223da1b3-a83d-b2e8-36dc-468dcb219305@suszko.eu> <db68d8c4-cf3e-5a2f-63d9-f16f0b4f9559@lidstrom.eu> <fecdd83b-2061-a6c0-f927-c380cbc2b500@suszko.eu> <a0828175-6f75-92c4-ab48-bfd395e1a91d@suszko.eu> <ce6fe689-777f-7285-3483-76fb73ea3e82@suszko.eu> <f3a86f00-7e81-ec9d-2f29-c4d9bc3e0094@lidstrom.eu> <b28e6141-04bc-4f66-93e3-658929500c0c@suszko.eu> <CAM8r67Boe0dQt+1T8rdoubxNKaeDCaQ5UkY1nThM8UahF=WU3g@mail.gmail.com> <20200508113438.00006adc@seibercom.net> <CAM8r67DqhC37qoU99iBXPvSZAVVPezPCfKipOD-2xiig95-0TA@mail.gmail.com> <20200508185327.00007397@seibercom.net> <20200509063222.94d762e9751a32c693d73d2f@sohara.org> <20200509062517.00002c46@seibercom.net> <20200509121604.b385c38e8ad5518c9a571ef2@sohara.org> <20200509135024.d3ace507.freebsd@edvax.de>

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On Sat, 9 May 2020 13:50:24 +0200, Polytropon commented:
>On Sat, 9 May 2020 12:16:04 +0100, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote:
>> On Sat, 9 May 2020 06:25:17 -0400
>> Jerry <jerry@seibercom.net> wrote:
>>  =20
>> > On Sat, 9 May 2020 06:32:22 +0100, Steve O'Hara-Smith commented: =20
>> > >On Fri, 8 May 2020 18:53:27 -0400
>> > >Jerry <jerry@seibercom.net> wrote:
>> > > =20
>> > >> Both "Zoom" and "MS Teams" are working fine in my Win10
>> > >> machine. I have never tried to get them to work on FreeBSD, and
>> > >> I have no idea why I would want to. I don't have a linux
>> > >> machine handy, although that is on my "to-do" list. Perhaps by
>> > >> the end of this summer.   =20
>> > >
>> > > One good reason for wanting them working on Linux or FreeBSD is
>> > > not owning a Windows machine. I don't, so if I wished to use
>> > > either of those tools it seems I would need to buy one or try
>> > > and get it to work on something else. =20
>> >=20
>> > You seem to be under some preconceived notion that your need to
>> > 'own' a Windows or other OS machine. You could run the
>> > application(s) in a VM. It is becoming ubiquitous from what I have
>> > observed. =20
>>=20
>> 	I still need to own a Windows license to do that - I do not.
>> =20
>
>You cannot own a license - you can be granted a license. Such a
>license can also be revoked, no matter how much you paid for it.
>In addition to a valid license, you typically need a registration
>for the use of the desired service. Depending on the service, this
>might include personal data you might not be willing to share with
>an untrusted third party (and their unknown partners) just for the
>sake of a video conference, such as name, date of birth, residence,
>banking information, who knows. That valuable data adds to the
>costs of licensing.

In the cases of the software I use, the use of telemetry can be shutoff
or restricted to certain functions, like a program crash. It is always
wise to investigate exactly what information is being analyzed. As
always, it is my choice; no one is holding a gun to my head forcing me
to accept anything.

>I fully agree with Jerry that trying to get certain software
>intended to be used with "Windows" exclusively to work on FreeBSD
>is, in most cases, not worth the time. A VM with a suitable "Windows"
>is often the best solution. Some software is so complex, and tied
>with the bowels of "Windows" so deeply that even with tools like
>wine it is not possible to get an acceptable result. The same
>applies for software that is run using a web browser: If it only
>supports one specific browser, use that browser, instead of trying
>to a get a different browser to to something that it is probably
>not able to do. Always keep in mind that the complexity of modern
>web browsers has reached (or maybe even surpassed) the complexity
>of whole operating systems - and this also seems to be true for
>their differences and incompatibilities, intended or not.

I have never understood why in a day when there are numerous VMs
available, any sane person would resort to 'wine'. Wine is nothing more
than a pseudo Windows environment. If you are going to use Windows for a
specific purpose, then do it correctly and use a VM. If I needed a
program designed for FreeBSD or any other *.nix, I would either run it
under the required environment or assuming I did not have a PC running
the required OS, run it in a VM. The only real use for wine is
drinking, and I am a Scotch man myself. JW Black in case you want to
send me bottle :).

As you might well know, Microsoft's latest browser, Edge or Edge Dev,
is based on Google Chrome. I am a tested for Edge Dev, and I love it.
It far surpasses Firefox which has grown old and slow. Yes, there are
still some problems. I know because I have reported them. I get
immediate attention, and a new build is issued every Tuesday, along
with an extensive report detailing changes, improvement and future
plans. No open-source development project has anything that goes as far
as they have in keeping its user base informed. A real pity.

I also question why FreeBSD has never ported Google Chrome into its
ports system? Is this by design, a sort of product discrimination? I
know, Poly, "patches accepted".

>> > I am so sick and tired of a bunch of "Whiney Wieners" crying about
>> > standards. =20
>>=20
>> 	Standards are important, without standards there would be no
>> internet. =20
>
>Even "Windows" would not be able to provide any online functionality
>without implementing existing standards, let alone connecting to
>something else... ;-)

I love FreeBSD for what it is good as. I run postfix, mysql, openldap,
and a few other utilities, but that is it. I cannot run a full desktop
on FreeBSD. Whether it is KDE, Gnome or whatever, unless it is a totally
stripped down version, there are just too many things that don't work.
My work requires a fully function PDF application. Only Adobe Acrobat DC
offers the services I need. Along with 'Power Point", Excel and
Publisher, all connected homogeneously into a virtual seamless package.
Oh, I also use MiKTeX for my LaTeX needs. It interfaces seamlessly with
Acrobat. I just presently integrated Grammarly into the mix. There is no
way I could ever get that combination working on a FreeBSD machine.
And, we won't even mention printing. I recently emailed the HPLIP
maintainer to inquire as to why it works so poorly and why it is not
being configured the way the HP recommends. I am not holding my breath
for a reply. Actually, I am working on a patch for that, but it
requires HP to make a few changes. In other words, it will take time.
Luckily, I have a Windows machine to print/fax/copy or scan with,
whether as standalone features or integrated into my other software.

The FreeBSD community has walled itself off from many computer
improvement due to its inability to adapt. Heck, they still cannot get
IEEE 802.11ac working correctly, and that is only seven years old.

Have fun Poly. I eagerly await the company line.

--=20
Jerry





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