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Date:      Sun, 10 Dec 2017 19:06:37 +0100
From:      Polytropon <>
To:        "Thomas Mueller" <>
Subject:   Re: looks like I am no longer welcome around here
Message-ID:  <>
In-Reply-To: <>
References:  <> <> <> <> <> <> <>

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On Sun, 10 Dec 2017 10:12:52 +0000, Thomas Mueller wrote:
> from Polytropon:
> > Please allow me a few comments regarding your rant (which has
> > some valid point, but in my opinion illustrates a little lack
> > of understanding of how some things on FreeBSD work):
> > > They don't like to be called out or have some one be critcal of the
> > > "new" flavor system or any "new" thing that comes down the pike. It has
> > > caused a butt load of issues with my systems here.
> > In that case, "they" would have kicked me more than once for
> > expressing that I don't like the sc -> vt transition (which,
> > as I might mention again, is one of the biggest show stoppers,
> > because vt isn't a fully working replacement of sc, and it
> > can do only a fraction of what sc could, and even that only
> > at bad quality, and it's hardly documented). Now let's see
> > what happens. :-)
> I remember the switch to vt was necessary to enable xorg to work;
> this is also true in NetBSD; they call it DRMKMS.

Exactly that is my problem: When I wish to be able to use both
X _and_ text mode, my only choice is vt (and vt is the default
now, sc will probably be abolished and maybe removed soon). But
vt is unusable (and hardly documented) for use as a sc replace-
ment. That what I'm complaining about.

> Copy-and-paste by mouse in FreeBSD double-spaces lines; mouse
> on console does not work at all in NetBSD.

I think this is due to the UTF-8 inclusion... hmmm...

> In NetBSD, I like booting into a 240x67 console; I can work
> better than with 80x25 or 80x30.

Then you won't have a problem with vt. However, users with
limited sight or those who require a text (!) screen of 80x25
in order to drive a hardware Braille "display" or voice will
no longer be able to use those devices with vt. There simply
isn't text mode anymore.

The strangest observation:

When I boot my system, it starts in 80x25 text mode, then the
loader is running, also in the normal text mode, then the
kernel will boot, still in 80x25, then the screen will go
dark for 5+ seconds, and finally arrive in tiny crappy font
which I can hardly read. Changing the font does not solve the
problem. So if you want to get back to 80x25 you need to get
the right combination of screen size, resolution, and font.
And note for those using a CRT: It simply doesn't have a
fixed size in pixels...

Summary: Time to say goodbye to 80x25 text mode and concentrate
on using X terminals - simply because when you're running vt,
you can run X, and setting up readable terminal windows is
much easier in X.

I will now get kicked off the list because of complaining. ;-)

Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...

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